PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[UMDNats]

Giving Dusty all the credit for last year (and all the blame for the NLDS) is ridiculous, just like giving Davey all the blame for this year is ridiculous. We don't have any idea what the clubhouse is actually like at all so we can't really speak to that.

All I see is player failing to do their jobs.

[PowerBoater69]

The Mets went to the WS. How the freak was that division not competitive?

People seem to quickly forget that Matt Williams team won 96 games in 2014.

Yeah, he was better than Martinez, that's for sure, but he left a wreck of a clubhouse behind, Baker fixed it overnight.

[Slateman]

Yeah, he was better than Martinez, that's for sure, but he left a wreck of a clubhouse behind, Baker fixed it overnight.

"Fixed it"

How? WTF did Dusty Baker do that was so amazing that the team basically got back to where they were already in 2014?

The 2015 Nats were just freaking broken and the Mets rode their rotation. The year before, no one else in teh division broke .500. The year after, the Mets won 87 games. Sorry but Matt Williams isn't the reason the 2015 Nationals collapsed. They were injured and choked like the chokers they have always been.

[UMDNats]

maybe the manager wasn't the only issue when a reliever choked the star outfielder in the dugout

[Ray D]

and now every good player forgetting how to hit.

"every" is the key word.  If it were just one, ok.  When it's every one of them, something is going on.  Someone has to figure out what.  I think that's the manager's job.

[UMDNats]

"every" is the key word.  If it were just one, ok.  When it's every one of them, something is going on.  Someone has to figure out what.  I think that's the manager's job.

oh, i don't disagree at all. i'm not happy with Davey overall; this season has been a nightmare and there are signs that he's in over his head here. to be fair, Turner is having a good year, Soto is obviously a beast (but our coaches haven't had enough time to ruin him?? ), Rendon overall has been at his career norms, Adams looks good here.

i just don't think worshipping dusty baker is accurate.

after last year we basically could choose between 2-3 years of dusty or, in a perfect world, a chance to hire a long-term guy. they chose option B. i see both sides of the argument, dusty coming back would have been fine with me, but i was also cool going with someone else. so far it doesn't appear to be working out - i bet dusty is shaking his head at this team from california, and he probably deserves to.

[mitlen]

When I was in my supervisin' days, we used to say anybody can be the boss when things are goin' well.    dave is earnin' his wings.    IMHO, he's not doin' real well at this point.

[Ray D]

oh, i don't disagree at all. i'm not happy with Davey overall; this season has been a nightmare and there are signs that he's in over his head here. to be fair, Turner is having a good year, Soto is obviously a beast (but our coaches haven't had enough time to ruin him?? ), Rendon overall has been at his career norms, Adams looks good here.

i just don't think worshipping dusty baker is accurate.
 

I just don't think what is happening would be happening with Dusty.  He would have figured it out long before now.  I can't prove that, it's what I believe.

[Greg_SRT]

Coaches always get more credit then they deserve when winning, more blame then they deserve when losing.

About 76% of all loses this season have been when the offense failed to score more than 3 runs.

About 52% of all loses this season have come when the offense failed to score more than 2 runs.

Is Dave putting the best lineup he can out on the field every game? I think he is.

[bluestreak]

If you think that Dusty wasn’t a good manager to begin with, you won’t give him any credit for winning last year despite tons of injuries and an awful pen.

But now that some folks think that Martinez is better or are just neutral about him, then you’ll likely give him the benefit of the doubt for the losing this year.

I think if you think anyone could have won with last year’s roster then you should think the same about this year’s. Does anyone have any data on games (or WAR) lost to injury compared to last year? I seem to remember lots of injuries last year too. And the first half bullpen was cover-your-eyes awful.   I think there is some mindfacting here. I’d be interested to see actual facts.

I think it’s likely somewhere in the middle, but you can’t have it both ways.

[Cue Skippy to come roll her eyes at me and tell me to “get over it” for defending Dusty]

[dcpatti]

If you think that Dusty wasn’t a good manager to begin with, you won’t give him any credit for winning last year despite tons of injuries and an awful pen.

But now that some folks think that Martinez is better or are just neutral about him, then you’ll likely give him the benefit of the doubt for the losing this year.

I think if you think anyone could have won with last year’s roster then you should think the same about this year’s. Does anyone have any data on games (or WAR) lost to injury compared to last year? I seem to remember lots of injuries last year too. And the first half bullpen was cover-your-eyes awful.   I think there is some mindfacting here. I’d be interested to see actual facts.

I think it’s likely somewhere in the middle, but you can’t have it both ways.

[Cue Skippy to come roll her eyes at me and tell me to “get over it” for defending Dusty]

SpoTrac has a great DL tracker. Based on days alone, 2018 is looking like it will eclipse 2017 by a fair bit.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/disabled-list/washington-nationals/  968 days so far in 2018, 1224 total in 2017  (or so far they have racked up 79% of last year's DL days)

They've also spent $26m to date in DL salary, compared to a total of $27m in 2017, and while money doesn't always equal quality of player, there have been some fairly expensive guys on the DL this year that did not spend much or even any time last year.


RosterResource has their own rating system to rank DL time, based on WAR, time, and other stuff, and they rank the Nats as the most hurt by DL stints this year https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-disabled-list-tracker/   They ranked us 5th last year.

I saw an analysis of DL affect by WAR a couple weeks ago and if memory serves me, we were second   to the Rangers, but I can't seem to find that. Will keep looking.

There is no doubt that we had a ton of injuries in both years, but it seems that this year's injuries are on pace to be more significant than last year's.  Also, with the exception of Eaton, it seemed that injuries to our core players was more spread out (no two core guys out at once) where it seems like this year there are a lot of overlapping DL stints.  We also seemed to hit rock bottom on outfield depth  while maintaining a solid bench last year, while there have been a few times this year when rattling off the list of "who's left on the bench" has been kinda sad. 

Would Dusty do a better job?  Honestly it's hard to say but I do know that Dusty's penchant for resting all the starters for at least one game per series made for much wailing around here last season.  Maybe we would win an extra game here or there via better motivation, better line up construction (assuming really either of those things got better) or plain old Dusty Magic ^tm, but I think it's just as likely that we'd give those extra wins right back in the form of the White Flag games.

[Greg_SRT]

Dusty was a winner. A good person, player, manager.

I preferred him coming back before they said he wasn’t. My first thought after Game 5 was we should have won this series. My second thought was I hope this doesn’t mean Dusty isn’t coming back.

[bluestreak]

SpoTrac has a great DL tracker. Based on days alone, 2018 is looking like it will eclipse 2017 by a fair bit.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/disabled-list/washington-nationals/  968 days so far in 2018, 1224 total in 2017  (or so far they have racked up 79% of last year's DL days)

They've also spent $26m to date in DL salary, compared to a total of $27m in 2017, and while money doesn't always equal quality of player, there have been some fairly expensive guys on the DL this year that did not spend much or even any time last year.


RosterResource has their own rating system to rank DL time, based on WAR, time, and other stuff, and they rank the Nats as the most hurt by DL stints this year https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-disabled-list-tracker/   They ranked us 5th last year.

I saw an analysis of DL affect by WAR a couple weeks ago and if memory serves me, we were second   to the Rangers, but I can't seem to find that. Will keep looking.

There is no doubt that we had a ton of injuries in both years, but it seems that this year's injuries are on pace to be more significant than last year's.  Also, with the exception of Eaton, it seemed that injuries to our core players was more spread out (no two core guys out at once) where it seems like this year there are a lot of overlapping DL stints.  We also seemed to hit rock bottom on outfield depth  while maintaining a solid bench last year, while there have been a few times this year when rattling off the list of "who's left on the bench" has been kinda sad. 

Would Dusty do a better job?  Honestly it's hard to say but I do know that Dusty's penchant for resting all the starters for at least one game per series made for much wailing around here last season.  Maybe we would win an extra game here or there via better motivation, better line up construction (assuming really either of those things got better) or plain old Dusty Magic ^tm, but I think it's just as likely that we'd give those extra wins right back in the form of the White Flag games.

Thanks. I could not easily find the info for last year. I posted that stat earlier from Man Games Lost about us being second to the rangers. Last year’s data was too hard to pull up on my phone.

I think That there were a yo. If injuries last year. More this year as you say, but some of that made up for by Soto literally falling into Dave’s lap.

It’s a moot point, and we will never know what Dusty would have done.

[welch]

RosterResource has their own rating system to rank DL time, based on WAR, time, and other stuff, and they rank the Nats as the most hurt by DL stints this year https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-disabled-list-tracker/   They ranked us 5th last year.

I saw an analysis of DL affect by WAR a couple weeks ago and if memory serves me, we were second   to the Rangers, but I can't seem to find that. Will keep looking.

<snip>

There is no doubt that we had a ton of injuries in both years, but it seems that this year's injuries are on pace to be more significant than last year's.  Also, with the exception of Eaton, it seemed that injuries to our core players was more spread out (no two core guys out at once) where it seems like this year there are a lot of overlapping DL stints.  We also seemed to hit rock bottom on outfield depth  while maintaining a solid bench last year, while there have been a few times this year when rattling off the list of "who's left on the bench" has been kinda sad. 

Offhand, I remember that Eaton, Werth, and Turner were out about the same time. Harper went out at the end of the season, and Murphy must have been suffering although he did not go on DL. Stevenson and Adam Lind played some OF. How did Adrian Sanchez get called up?

[Air Desmond]

Davey is asleep at the wheel.

Top 3rd

Syndergaard clearly balks. Eaton may have called time, but the umpire never signaled for it. Thus, a balk. Cost the Nats a run. Davey does nothing. Sits in the dugout like the clueless chump he is.

This guy is the most incompetent manager the Nats have ever had.

[Jeff in Gaithersburg]

I think if you think anyone could have won with last year’s roster then you should think the same about this year’s. Does anyone have any data on games (or WAR) lost to injury compared to last year? I seem to remember lots of injuries last year too. And the first half bullpen was cover-your-eyes awful.   I think there is some mindfacting here. I’d be interested to see actual facts.

Stras, Zimm, Murphy, Rendon, and Wieters were all healthy the entire season last year, plus Zimm/Rendon both had career years.

And of course the fact that the Braves and Phillies are much improved and both have deeper rotations than the Nats do has been a major factor as well.

[dcpatti]

Davey is asleep at the wheel.

Top 3rd

Syndergaard clearly balks. Eaton may have called time, but the umpire never signaled for it. Thus, a balk. Cost the Nats a run. Davey does nothing. Sits in the dugout like the clueless chump he is.

This guy is the most incompetent manager the Nats have ever had.

Even with time not granted,  it’s not a balk because basically the actions of the batter can’t trigger a balk. This article explains it better than i can: http://www.theoleballgame.com/can-a-batter-cause-a-balk.html. The ump can even call a strike on the batter in that circumstance if he thinks the timeout request was an intentional attempt to force a balk (but they never call that).

Which isn’t to say Davey doesn’t have his share of dumb moves, but this doesn’t appear to be one of them.

[rileyn]

Even with time not granted,  it’s not a balk because basically the actions of the batter can’t trigger a balk. This article explains it better than i can: http://www.theoleballgame.com/can-a-batter-cause-a-balk.html. The ump can even call a strike on the batter in that circumstance if he thinks the timeout request was an intentional attempt to force a balk (but they never call that).

Which isn’t to say Davey doesn’t have his share of dumb moves, but this doesn’t appear to be one of them.

That article doesn't explain what happened last night.  It was a total balk.  Eaton tried to call timeout, the ump did not grant timeout, Syndergaard didn't throw the pitch.  The ump basically called a "do over," which is really only allowed in backyard pickup games.

[dcpatti]

That article doesn't explain what happened last night.  It was a total balk.  Eaton tried to call timeout, the ump did not grant timeout, Syndergaard didn't throw the pitch.  The ump basically called a "do over," which is really only allowed in backyard pickup games.

The ump not calling time after the interrupted delivery doesn’t change the fact that the batter’s action caused the interruption. MLB rule 5.04(b) (http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/0/8/0/268272080/2018_Official_Baseball_Rules.pdf)

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not go through with his pitch because the batter has inadvertently caused the pitcher to interrupt his delivery, it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.”

So time-out doesn’t have to be granted before the interruption, although it should have been granted after, as a formality since play had already stopped.  The rule references both the pitcher and batter having violated a rule; for the pitcher, it’s the illegal motion and for the batter, it’s the late request for time.

All that said, what Davey should be doing is raising hell every time someone is granted timeout once Max is already in his windup.

[Slateman]

So, in other words, the ump got it right, and most of the posters here complaining simply dont understand the game.


Anyway, I'm curious if he'll bench Bryce and for how long.

[Natsinpwc]

So, in other words, the ump got it right, and most of the posters here complaining simply dont understand the game.


Anyway, I'm curious if he'll bench Bryce and for how long.

So what else is new? 

I did learn something this morning reading about the balk rule. Even an old dog...

Didn't matter in the game anyway because they just cannot hit this year.

[rileyn]

Eaton didn't even move.  He said timeout to the ump without even looking back.  He didn't back out of the box.  That's all on Syndergaard for not finishing the pitch.  So if Eaton would have backed out of the box and he delivered the pitch, the ump would have either called a ball or a strike.  There are way too many things going on with this rule, and if it is indeed up to interpretation by the ump, then Martinez should have been out of the dugout to question the call, if for no other reason that to let us know he is alive.

[Slateman]

So what else is new? 

I did learn something this morning reading about the balk rule. Even an old dog...

Yep. Great pull by Patti to find the rule

[dcpatti]

Eaton didn't even move.  He said timeout to the ump without even looking back.  He didn't back out of the box.  That's all on Syndergaard for not finishing the pitch.  So if Eaton would have backed out of the box and he delivered the pitch, the ump would have either called a ball or a strike.  There are way too many things going on with this rule, and if it is indeed up to interpretation by the ump, then Martinez should have been out of the dugout to question the call, if for no other reason that to let us know he is alive.

Eaton doesn’t have to move though. The rule doesn’t require it. If you read the full section, there’s two independent concepts: penalty to the pitcher  not being in effect if the reason he stopped his delivery was something the batter did, and separately the penalty to the batter (a strike) if he steps out of the box without time being called.

If the pitcher heard him call time (and it was pretty audible on the broadcast so chances are, Synderella heard it), and stopped his delivery because of it, that’s enough to make it not a balk.    Why should Davey go argue it?  Players play these little head games with each other all throughout the game.

[rileyn]

Is that what that was?  A head game move by Eaton?  He should worry more about his head, and hit a ground ball to the right side when we have a runner on 2nd with nobody out.  Or just bunt.   Last night he a grounder to short that resulted in a brain dead baserunning play by Difo, and in the same situation in Pittsburgh he hit a lazy fly ball to left.