PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[Natsinpwc]

At some point you have to try to win games rather than concede them early. Every post game Martinez says he has confidence in his guys but his actions show that he doesn't.

Games are won and lost mostly by players. Managers have some impact. When reading this thread one would think the manager is responsible for 90 percent of the results.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Martinez gave up on the game and left Hell in to save the pen, he only started playing to win after the slam. He's not leading this team he's along for the ride.

actually, he started to manage aggressively even before the slam.  That rally started before he got to Turner.  He was very aggressive in his use of pinch hitters.  In a way, he might have learned from the day before when he never got Adams to the plate waiting for the perfect moment.

[PowerBoater69]

actually, he started to manage aggressively even before the slam.  That rally started before he got to Turner.  He was very aggressive in his use of pinch hitters.  In a way, he might have learned from the day before when he never got Adams to the plate waiting for the perfect moment.

In any case the score should not have hit 9-0, he should have gone to the pen in the 2nd.

[PowerBoater69]

Games are won and lost mostly by players. Managers have some impact. When reading this thread one would think the manager is responsible for 90 percent of the results.

Funny thing about the Martinez defenders is that they mostly downplay the role of the manager. Almost no one is arguing that Davey is any good at his job, just that he is irrelevant to the results.

[Greg_SRT]

In any case the score should not have hit 9-0, he should have gone to the pen in the 2nd.

And then complain that he uses the pen too much.

[nfotiu]

At some point you have to try to win games rather than concede them early. Every post game Martinez says he has confidence in his guys but his actions show that he doesn't.

I see your point, but not sure where the right time to pull him was.  The runs in the second came in a hurry and with 2 out.  If Murphy and Rendon played halfway competent defense, it would have been 0-0 at the end of 2.   It's hard to blame Helickson for Prado hitting a home run off an 0-1 pitch that was a foot inside.  It seemed reasonable to leave him in with a short leash.  He was rolling along pretty good until the Bour home run that was off a pretty good pitch.   

[PowerBoater69]

I see your point, but not sure where the right time to pull him was.  The runs in the second came in a hurry and with 2 out.  If Murphy and Rendon played halfway competent defense, it would have been 0-0 at the end of 2.   It's hard to blame Helickson for Prado hitting a home run off an 0-1 pitch that was a foot inside.  It seemed reasonable to leave him in with a short leash.  He was rolling along pretty good until the Bour home run that was off a pretty good pitch.   

I'd have pulled him earlier, but at least don't let him bat in the third and go out in the fourth. I know that he got the bottom of the order out in the 3rd but it was predictable that he'd give up more runs in the 4th.

[Greg_SRT]

I'd have pulled him earlier, but at least don't let him bat in the third and go out in the fourth. I know that he got the bottom of the order out in the 3rd but it was predictable that he'd give up more runs in the 4th.

We've been pulling pitchers early for many games recently. It can't always be the solution. Bullpen is tired.

[Slateman]

actually, he started to manage aggressively even before the slam.  That rally started before he got to Turner.  He was very aggressive in his use of pinch hitters.  In a way, he might have learned from the day before when he never got Adams to the plate waiting for the perfect moment.

Yep. Pinch hitting for Sevi was an interesting move.

In any case the score should not have hit 9-0, he should have gone to the pen in the 2nd.

Nats bullpen has the second most innings pitched in the last 7 days, and 4th most in the last 2 weeks. It's already pretty taxed.

[Greg_SRT]

Funny thing about the Martinez defenders is that they mostly downplay the role of the manager. Almost no one is arguing that Davey is any good at his job, just that he is irrelevant to the results.

Why would we? You can't make a decision saying he is good so early. It's more than Wins and Loses.

If they were winning and in first place it would still be too early to say.

Remember Matt Williams?

I count one mistake so far this season. But every other decision he has explained and there is logic behind it. Including not batting Adams for Difo.

[Baseball is Life]

Why would we? You can't make a decision saying he is good so early. It's more than Wins and Loses.

If they were winning and in first place it would still be too early to say.

Remember Matt Williams?

I count one mistake so far this season. But every other decision he has explained and there is logic behind it. Including not batting Adams for Difo.

What was his reason for not batting Adams? I missed that.

[dcpatti]

At some point you have to try to win games rather than concede them early. Every post game Martinez says he has confidence in his guys but his actions show that he doesn't.

You have a limited number of bullets and you don't get a fresh supply of all of them every day.  If it looks like you have a chance to win, go ahead and fire all your bullets, but the way the Nats have been playing lately, a 7-0 deficit in the 3rd is not a "fire all your bullets" situation.

 

[dcpatti]

What was his reason for not batting Adams? I missed that.

Said it was likely that Cora would have just ended up walking Adams (there was a base empty) to get to Severino.

[Greg_SRT]

What was his reason for not batting Adams? I missed that.

He said he wanted Difo at bat over Sev. Not exactly word for word lol, I forget his exacts.

But basically it was Difo over Sev. He felt if Adams came in for Difo, Sox walk Adams and pitch at Sev. But if Difo gets on then Adams is in the box as the winning run.

Actually tells you what the Nats feel about the catching situation. Sev isn't trust at all to hit. And that's reasonable.

[aBaltoNat]

I think they saved his job yesterday. When I saw the score early against the Marlins, of all teams, I thought he was done.

[PowerBoater69]

Why would we? You can't make a decision saying he is good so early. It's more than Wins and Loses.

If they were winning and in first place it would still be too early to say.

Remember Matt Williams?

I count one mistake so far this season. But every other decision he has explained and there is logic behind it. Including not batting Adams for Difo.

One mistake. You sound like you worked on the Hillary campaign.

[PowerBoater69]

I think they saved his job yesterday. When I saw the score early against the Marlins, of all teams, I thought he was done.

Yep. I've never agreed with the thought that a team needs to lose in order to force the changes needed to turn things around, still don't, but I'm getting more sympathic to that point of view.

[DPMOmaha]

lol, he was never getting fired in-season.

[Baseball is Life]

He said he wanted Difo at bat over Sev. Not exactly word for word lol, I forget his exacts.

But basically it was Difo over Sev. He felt if Adams came in for Difo, Sox walk Adams and pitch at Sev. But if Difo gets on then Adams is in the box as the winning run.

Actually tells you what the Nats feel about the catching situation. Sev isn't trust at all to hit. And that's reasonable.

Sounds smart to me. Uncle Ray never mentioned that, I don't think, in his post game report.

[Greg_SRT]

Encore is on. It’s 9-1. Lol

[Slateman]

Encore is on. It’s 9-1. Lol

It's like catching Heat on TV a few scenes before the bank robbery scene.

[Greg_SRT]

Apparently Dave had a talk to bat flipping Sev.

Said you can’t do that when you only got 2.

[dcpatti]

Apparently Dave had a talk to bat flipping Sev.

Said you can’t do that when you only got 2.

As bad as the team has been playing lately, they should be greeting every scoring runner with champagne and ticker tape.

[Smithian]

In any case the score should not have hit 9-0, he should have gone to the pen in the 2nd.

The Nats pen was cooked. No problem letting Hellickson eat that one. This is the first day in a while the Nats pen isn't friend and it's thanks to Scherzer having seven okay innings and then the score being big enough to let Kelley go two.

[PowerBoater69]

I don't fault Severino too much for the flip but Martínez was right to tell him to tone it down, last thing we need is a brawl to support a AAAA catcher. No reason for Martinez to call him out publicly.