PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[Natsinpwc]

That's it, Martinez has managed to overwork our starters in total innings and our relievers in total appearances.

I'm not sure total team bullpen appearances really matter. Because of injuries and promotions and demotions they have gone through lots of relievers. Is any evidence presented to show that specific relievers have more appearances than they did last year at the same time?  I know Madson was out for a while. Hard to believe Doolittke has more appearances this year than last given the team's record.

Sounds to me that most of the relievers probably have a lower pitch count this year which is good?

I'm having a hard time worrying about the pitching when the hitting has been so bad.  If you factor out a few big offensive games they might have the worst offense in MLB.

[PowerBoater69]

I'm not sure total team bullpen appearances really matter. Because of injuries and promotions and demotions they have gone through lots of relievers. Is any evidence presented to show that specific relievers have more appearances than they did last year at the same time?  I know Madson was out for a while. Hard to believe Doolittke has more appearances this year than last given the team's record.

Sounds to me that most of the relievers probably have a lower pitch count this year which is good?

I'm having a hard time worrying about the pitching when the hitting has been so bad.  If you factor out a few big offensive games they might have the worst offense in MLB.

You'd have to ask Dybas for more specifics, but he did write that four guys are on pace for 60 appearances. Can't argue that getting shut out on a regular basis isn't the bigger issue.

[Natsinpwc]

You'd have to ask Dybas for more specifics, but he did write that four guys are on pace for 60 appearances. Can't argue that getting shut out on a regular basis isn't the bigger issue.

Yep. Seems tough to win when you don't score. Puts too much pressure on the pitchers also.

[Greg_SRT]

So far 2018 = # of Pitches/ Games/ Innings

Kintzler = 571/39/36.2

Madson = 509/36/ 32.1

Doolittle = 496/35/37.1

2017 at the ASB

Kintzler = 610/39/39.1

Madson = 526/38/37.1

Doolittle = 306/22/20.1

Doolittle was on DL for A's from May 3rd 2017. Rehab began June 2nd 2017. Back with the A's June 10th 2017. But the comparison doesn't take into account how many times a pitcher was warm in pen and didn't enter the game.

But this years work load isn't different that last years at this time.

[Natsinpwc]

So far 2018 = # of Pitches/ Games/ Innings

Kintzler = 571/39/36.2

Madson = 509/36/ 32.1

Doolittle = 496/35/37.1

2017 at the ASB

Kintzler = 610/39/39.1

Madson = 526/38/37.1

Doolittle = 306/22/20.1

Doolittle was on DL for A's from May 3rd 2017. Rehab began June 2nd 2017. Back with the A's June 10th 2017. But the comparison doesn't take into account how many times a pitcher was warm in pen and didn't enter the game.

But this years work load isn't different that last years at this time.

Thanks for researching that. Just another case of someone taking a stat out of context to fit an argument they already wanted to make.

[tzinc]

you don't hire a  manager to learn on the job
that is what the minors are for

especially not when you have a contending team vs some rebuild project

it was cheapness on the lerner's part that's alll
and then a terrible cosmetic hire and that's on rizzo

and as far as i can tell davey is not learning anything he is as bad now as he was at the start

ludicrous hire

but the lerner's are to cheap to fire him and hire someone else
and rizzo won't admit he made a mistake ...

[aspenbubba]

you don't hire a  manager to learn on the job
that is what the minors are for

especially not when you have a contending team vs some rebuild project

it was cheapness on the lerner's part that's alll
and then a terrible cosmetic hire and that's on rizzo

and as far as i can tell davey is not learning anything he is as bad now as he was at the start

ludicrous hire

but the lerner's are to cheap to fire him and hire someone else
and rizzo won't admit he made a mistake ...

And who the hell were they going to hire? Nobody interviewed Dusty in 2017 after he was not renewed and no one hired him for two freakin' years before the Nats did in 2016. Giardi wasn't going to manage this year no matter what.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Bring back Davey...he's only 75!  Weird wuss power!

And who the hell were they going to hire? Nobody interviewed Dusty in 2017 after he was not renewed and no one hired him for two freakin' years before the Nats did in 2016. Giardi wasn't going to manage this year no matter what.

[aspenbubba]

Bring back Davey...he's only 75!  Weird wuss power!

Senior power!!

[PowerBoater69]

Bring back Davey...he's only 75!  Weird wuss power!

Sure, for three months, no music in the clubhouse, no costumes on road trips, no zoo animals, no more fun of any kind. There needs to be consequences for highly paid players who are under performing.

[UMDNats]

Wait, we're saying Adam Eaton is still hurting? He's hitting .319 and an OPS on par with all his career norms.

[Slateman]

you don't hire a  manager to learn on the job
that is what the minors are for

especially not when you have a contending team vs some rebuild project

it was cheapness on the lerner's part that's alll
and then a terrible cosmetic hire and that's on rizzo

and as far as i can tell davey is not learning anything he is as bad now as he was at the start

ludicrous hire

but the lerner's are to cheap to fire him and hire someone else
and rizzo won't admit he made a mistake ...

It was cheapness? Who else were they going to hire? Dusty failed. Dusty failed miserabley. Dusty has consistently failed in the playoffs.

They were cheap with Bud Black? The Rockies aren't any better.

[aspenbubba]

It was cheapness? Who else were they going to hire? Dusty failed. Dusty failed miserabley. Dusty has consistently failed in the playoffs.

They were cheap with Bud Black? The Rockies aren't any better.

You got it! Dusty got paid 2 M per annum. It was above average for all managers with the lack of complete data that I found when I researched it last February. For those that are naggin' about Dusty get over it. That ship has sailed.

[LoveAngelos]

You got it! Dusty got paid 2 M per annum. It was above average for all managers with the lack of complete data that I found when I researched it last February. For those that are naggin' about Dusty get over it. That ship has sailed.

No
The ship has sunk

[tzinc]

Dusty Failed In The Playoffs LOL oh yeah Dusty failed in the playoffs but it's not Davey's fault we are failing in the season?  It wasn't the players that failed in the playoffs but Dusty. Now we are losing the next season with a better team and it is not Davey's fault but the players. 

There were loads of injuries last year and no BP for half a season and all Dusty was win no excuses.

I find it hilarious that people still attack Dusty.  Not one player was ever traded off a team or cut because they failed in the playoffs baseball decisions cannot be made on small samples which the playoffs are! Baseball is a marathon.

At least he made the playoffs!!! No team yet has won a WS by missing the playoffs maybe the Davey fan boys think this year will be the exception.

Dusty did one of the best managing jobs I have ever seen in 30 years of watching baseball last year.

SF hired him as a consultant by the way and SF is performing well above expectations this year I'm not saying it has anything to do with Dusty being there it's just a cute coinidence

[PowerBoater69]

You got it! Dusty got paid 2 M per annum. It was above average for all managers with the lack of complete data that I found when I researched it last February. For those that are naggin' about Dusty get over it. That ship has sailed.

Of the known manager's salaries (less than half the league) Baker was making almost a million under the average.

[tzinc]

Of the known manager's salaries (less than half the league) Baker was making almost a million under the average.

After 2 brilliant seasons including one of the finest managing jobs in the league last year he wanted the going rate and the cheapos said no

They always cheap out at crucial times we always come up 1 or 2 players short

Then they hire a joke in Davey if I bring in Camels "We Will Get Over The Hump get it duh??" what a moron this guy is I have never seen a manager make so many bad moves over a season and this season is half over lol

[UMDNats]

After 2 brilliant seasons including one of the finest managing jobs in the league last year he wanted the going rate and the cheapos said no

They always cheap out at crucial times we always come up 1 or 2 players short

Then they hire a joke in Davey

honestly, what was so magical about his work last year? the team was really good and he did a competent job, but nothing we haven't seen before. he had 4 players with an OPS+ over 130, the cy young winner and another stud starter, a great #3 and eventually had good bullpen arms. you can't tell me dusty baker taught max scherzer how to pitch?

davey to me has done pretty much whatever any manager here would do in the same situation. crap has sucked from day 1 with the injuries and now every good player forgetting how to hit.

[Slateman]

honestly, what was so magical about his work last year? the team was really good and he did a competent job, but nothing we haven't seen before. he had 4 players with an OPS+ over 130, the cy young winner and another stud starter, a great #3 and eventually had good bullpen arms.

davey to me has done pretty much whatever any manager here would do in the same situation.

This. It's not hard to manage a team filled with great players that largely stayed healthy, in a division with no competition. Literally anyone on this board could have managed last year's team to 90 wins. Hell, Dusty was asleep through the middle innings most games.

[tzinc]

honestly, what was so magical about his work last year? the team was really good and he did a competent job, but nothing we haven't seen before. he had 4 players with an OPS+ over 130, the cy young winner and another stud starter, a great #3 and eventually had good bullpen arms.

davey to me has done pretty much whatever any manager here would do in the same situation.

Key Injuries throughout the year
Getting Replacements To Produce
Managing without a BP for half a season
Creating a no excuses winning attitude
Not making bad moves all season


This year is the proof that the last 2 years were well managed

Because everyone thought Dusty was nothing bring anyone in and they can win with this team

It has happened before look at the Reds after Dusty left

The reality is managing makes a difference over the long term and like everything else in life you have good managers and bad managers lets compare the careers of Dusty and Davey when they both retire

[UMDNats]

This. It's not hard to manage a team filled with great players that largely stayed healthy, in a division with no competition. Literally anyone on this board could have managed last year's team to 90 wins. Hell, Dusty was asleep through the middle innings most games.

I liked Dusty and thought he did good work with Taylor, but giving dusty all the credit for that is naive. the players play the game, not the manager.

i think Dusty for the most part did a good job last year but the team was on auto-pilot by july. i mean we were up 11 games at the break. 3 teams in our division lost 90 games.

[PowerBoater69]

This. It's not hard to manage a team filled with great players that largely stayed healthy, in a division with no competition. Literally anyone on this board could have managed last year's team to 90 wins. Hell, Dusty was asleep through the middle innings most games.

Matt Williams 2015

[Greg_SRT]

Matt Williams 2015

Matt Williams 2014

[Slateman]

Matt Williams 2015

The Mets went to the WS. How the freak was that division not competitive?

People seem to quickly forget that Matt Williams team won 96 games in 2014.

[tzinc]

yeah and how did we get that lead

how did we get that lead when we had NO BP for half the season

and a bunch of key injuries???

Dusty was a key factor

I am not saying managers are the only difference between winning and losing a good manager can win a handful more games a season

say take a 3 or 4 game lead to a 10 or 11 game lead
but a bad manager can easily cost you 10 or so games way they handle lineups etc

I mean literally never seen a manager screw things up on a regular basis like Davey does he might be the worst manager I have seen

Managers create an atmosphere in the club as well an attitude

Like I said everyone says a team is loaded with talent they will win no matter who manages why pay him an extra million lol

Ridiculous you can't just pull anyone in off the streets to manage and they will get results well in Davey's case anyone you pulled off the street would actually do a better job