Author Topic: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)  (Read 57342 times)

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Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1275 on: July 04, 2018, 02:39:39 pm »
Martinez needs to buy 25 tables, order each player to stand behind each table while he flips them one by one.  Then Rizzo needs to order one huge table and flip it right in front of Martinez.  Then Lerner needs to buy a massive table and flip it in front of Rizzo.  This needs to happen every day until this team is in first place.  That's the only way to fix this.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1276 on: July 04, 2018, 02:42:16 pm »
Martinez needs to buy 25 tables, order each player to stand behind each table while he flips them one by one.  Then Rizzo needs to order one huge table and flip it right in front of Martinez.  Then Lerner needs to buy a massive table and flip it in front of Rizzo.  This needs to happen every day until this team is in first place.  That's the only way to fix this.

What the freak has tables done to you?

Offline Cinqo de Mayo

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1277 on: July 04, 2018, 02:54:34 pm »
Ray, you are correct. Martinez is going nowhere soon. Rizzo obviously brought Martinez in here to accommodate all the Latin players moving through his pipeline.
Better hope Martinez can learn from his mistakes or this could be a long slow death for Nats fans.


I thought Rizzo wanted Dusty retained.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1278 on: July 04, 2018, 04:20:03 pm »
And yet no one can point to anything Martinez has done that warrants firing.

This happened in 2013. And 2015. Now in 2018. Three separate managers are having the same issues. Hmmmm

Is it a fireable offense to leave your #1 pitching prospect in for 115 pitches to chase a win, and now have him shelved with shoulder soreness in his very next start?  How about leaving Adams on the bench without an AB today? How about not insisting Bryce bunt in the 9th when we are desperate for baserunners and they are giving it to him? 

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1279 on: July 04, 2018, 04:22:21 pm »
Is it a fireable offense to leave your #1 pitching prospect in for 115 pitches to chase a win, and now have him shelved with shoulder soreness in his very next start? 

Imagine the outcry if Baker had done that.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1280 on: July 04, 2018, 04:25:34 pm »
Imagine the outcry if Baker had done that.
It's really not a Dusty issue for me.  It's more that everything Davey touches turns to Sh*t.  Rah rah shish boom bah only gets you so far. 

Offline Natitude2018

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1281 on: July 04, 2018, 04:35:49 pm »
It's really not a Dusty issue for me.  It's more that everything Davey touches turns to Sh*t.  Rah rah shish boom bah only gets you so far.

I think Dusty got a very raw deal. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth but the more important thing is your point: he’s nothing more than a cheerleader. I could do that for a fraction of the salary. We should get Girardi if this team is serious-he is familiar with the division as well.

Online varoadking

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1282 on: July 04, 2018, 04:36:50 pm »

Wonder if lil' d uses that same "Trust me" line that he gives the press on Rizzo?




Offline Natitude2018

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1283 on: July 04, 2018, 04:37:04 pm »
I thought Rizzo wanted Dusty retained.

That’s my understanding as well. This is all on ownership. That’s why I am surprised Rizzo extended.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1284 on: July 04, 2018, 04:56:40 pm »
Is it a fireable offense to leave your #1 pitching prospect in for 115 pitches to chase a win, and now have him shelved with shoulder soreness in his very next start?  How about leaving Adams on the bench without an AB today? How about not insisting Bryce bunt in the 9th when we are desperate for baserunners and they are giving it to him? 

No. No. And I have yet to see Bryce execute a bunt, so no

Offline Natitude2018

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1285 on: July 04, 2018, 05:00:56 pm »
How about pulling your pitcher before the PH is announced? Something taught in managing 101?

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1286 on: July 04, 2018, 05:16:35 pm »
How about pulling your pitcher before the PH is announced? Something taught in managing 101?

Yes, well documented. Unfortunately if seems to be the only one.

Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1287 on: July 04, 2018, 05:30:50 pm »
There's been a domino effect from the injuries in a way that even Dusty didn't have to deal with in 2017:

- A healthy Zimm had 36/108 last year and hit over .300
- Adam Lind had 14/59 and hits .303
- A healthy Daniel Murphy had 23/93 and hit .322
- Howie Kendrick was a huge pickup at the deadline hitting almost .300 and was versatile
- Rendon had another huge season last year while staying healthy all season
- Wieters was healthy and drove in 52 runs
- Stras only missed 4 starts last year, has already missed 4 this year
- Bryce hits 100 points higher than he is now
- Guys like Brian Goodwin and Stephen Drew were significant contributors off the bench - 97 hits, 14 homers, 47 RBI between them

2018:

After a slow start Zimm has missed 2 months, and while Adams is a good player he hasn't put up the numbers Lind did last year and after a hot start Mark Reynolds has regressed to what he's been for the past several years - some homers and a ton of strikeouts. Murphy missed the 1st 2 months of the season, didn't have a spring training and still doesn't look right. Rendon missed almost 20 games earlier this year. Howie is done for the year. Goodwin has missed significant time and Drew is gone so the bench has been thinner with the injuries added in. Wieters did a great job with the pitching staff last year and has missed 60+ games so far. With him out, there's been no offense production at all from the C position and Sevy can't seem to handle a pitching staff at this point which has especially caused problems for both Gio (who easily could have won over 20 games last year when Wieters caught him) and Tanner getting on the same page with him. The Nats were 36-26 when Stras went down, 6-17 since. Hellickson had pitched well then he goes out. Injuries to the rotation mean the guys who are taking their place aren't as good and therefore aren't going to be able to go deep into games, thus coupled with close games do to a lack of offense has lead to burning out the pen. And many of these injuries have occurred simultaneously, whereas last year the injuries were much more staggered during the course of the season. They have had virtually no solid offensive production from C, 1B or 2B so far. And on top of all of this the Braves and Phillies are both vastly improved over what they were last year.

Not saying Davey is blameless in this mess, he's made mistakes, but I don't care who the manager of this team is he wouldn't be able to overcome all of that and have this team in 1st place right now or more than a few games over .500.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1288 on: July 04, 2018, 06:03:33 pm »
Players only meeting today.  Oh boy.  Davey is Dead Man Walking right now. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1289 on: July 04, 2018, 06:09:28 pm »
But wouldn't taking out SP's earlier mean more work for the overworked bullpen? Or are you just saying that certain Bullpen arms seen too much work? Just trying to understand.
I'd be curious how many times he's gotten guys up and not gotten them into games.  This was Matt Williams's problem.  It's pretty clear that Madson was broken in the stretch right before he went on the DL when he pitched something like 5 straight games (maybe I exaggerate the games). He has not been the same since. 

He had to break camp with Enny Romero, and finding out what has gotten him cut by 2 teams this year took some time. For whatever reason, the AJ Cole that is pitching well for the NYY did not get it done here.  I think part of the riding of the starters hard early on until they busted is also tied to the unwillingness to pull them for the pen when the relievers have gotten up.  You can, in effect, make guys pitch 11 innings to win a 9 inning game if you have your bullpen up in the 6th and 7th but force / allow your starter to pitch those innings, 4th time through the order.

Offline Natitude2018

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1290 on: July 04, 2018, 06:15:01 pm »
Players only meeting today.  Oh boy.  Davey is Dead Man Walking right now.

No kidding. Thanks for posting.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1291 on: July 04, 2018, 06:19:07 pm »
I'd be curious how many times he's gotten guys up and not gotten them into games.  This was Matt Williams's problem.  It's pretty clear that Madson was broken in the stretch right before he went on the DL when he pitched something like 5 straight games (maybe I exaggerate the games). He has not been the same since. 

He had to break camp with Enny Romero, and finding out what has gotten him cut by 2 teams this year took some time. For whatever reason, the AJ Cole that is pitching well for the NYY did not get it done here.  I think part of the riding of the starters hard early on until they busted is also tied to the unwillingness to pull them for the pen when the relievers have gotten up.  You can, in effect, make guys pitch 11 innings to win a 9 inning game if you have your bullpen up in the 6th and 7th but force / allow your starter to pitch those innings, 4th time through the order.

I haven't seen Dave or Dusty bullpen problems like Matt had.

It's certainly possible I missed it. Just haven't seen guys getting up without entering a game.

Except when it's bottom of the 8th for example, at home, and waiting to see if offense makes it a save situation.

But other than than I haven't noticed it.

For example contrary to what some say, Dave did get Kintz up in the 5th when Gio was losing it. He didn't go in for Gio in the 5th. But did come in the 6th.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1292 on: July 04, 2018, 06:20:26 pm »
Players only meeting today.  Oh boy.  Davey is Dead Man Walking right now.

I doubt the meeting is to bad mouth Dave or anything similar. Probably to take accountability and discuss coming together.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1293 on: July 04, 2018, 06:32:21 pm »
Players only meeting today.  Oh boy.  Davey is Dead Man Walking right now. 
A players-only meeting is a good thing and doesn't necessarily have implications for the manager. They need to talk among themselves, candidly, to try to figure out why they are not scoring runs.  Having the manager in the meeting adds nothing to the process and can inhibit candid discussion,

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1294 on: July 04, 2018, 06:40:13 pm »
A players-only meeting is a good thing and doesn't necessarily have implications for the manager. They need to talk among themselves, candidly, to try to figure out why they are not scoring runs.  Having the manager in the meeting adds nothing to the process and can inhibit candid discussion,
Good points. They should have done this weeks ago. I think Harper has mentally checked out. I doubt he listens to anyone.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1295 on: July 04, 2018, 06:42:08 pm »

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1296 on: July 04, 2018, 06:43:29 pm »
I think Harper has mentally checked out. I doubt he listens to anyone.

We already know he doesn't listen to the hitting coach.  I doubt he'll listen to his teammates.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1297 on: July 04, 2018, 07:00:29 pm »

We already know he doesn't listen to the hitting coach.  I doubt he'll listen to his teammates.

The hitting coach everyone wants to fire?

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1298 on: July 04, 2018, 07:26:47 pm »
The hitting coach everyone wants to fire?



that's what I thought too :lol:

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1299 on: July 04, 2018, 11:14:22 pm »
The hitting coach everyone wants to fire?
If the players ignore him,  he should be fired. Conversely it follows that if he remains the hitting coach the players should do what he asks them to do.