PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[mitlen]

does he not realize that rookie managers are leading the two best teams in baseball?

Reading the article will bring clarity to the comment.

[Slateman]

The injury comparison has some merit, although it has been noted that there were plenty of injuries last year. The point that a bunch of guys are underachieving under Martinez while a bunch of guys overachieved under Baker really argues in favor of the manager change being the big factor in the decline.

Not really. You've already stated that they overachieved. It would make sense for them to come back down to Earth.

[PowerBoater69]

Not really. You've already stated that they overachieved. It would make sense for them to come back down to Earth.

Individually sure, but a bunch of guys excelling as a group is an indication of good leadership.

[PowerBoater69]

Just because everyone isn't on the everything is Dave's fault hate train doesn't equal defending Dave. I am just being realistic.

No matter who they bring in here, we get the same lackluster results.

Stop comparing this season so far to last regular season. Instead compare this season so far to all the previous NLDS's.

This team wins and their offense looks powerful. They lose and their offense looks lifeless.

How many times has this team been shut out or held to almost nothing? How many times has this offense made below average pitchers look above average? Then you realize that they have been doing this crap for years.

Hell look back to that Mets series when Eaton went down. Lifeless 2 games, and the third score a butt ton of runs. Lose a series 2 out of 3, but out score the team for the series.

If we went 16-8 in 1 run games this year instead of 8-16 we'd be in first place. And everyone would be happy. But the core problems this team has and has had for years wouldn't be visible like it is now. So it's not really how the team is playing?

I can't blame Dave for Murphy hitting .190, Zimm hitting .217, Harper hitting .218

I can't blame Dave for the poor performance of players. They have their own accountability. They are professionals and are put in favorable situations, but are failing. That's on them. Max had the matchup of all matchups. A batter in the box with no positive history of hitting, 2 outs and the count 0-2. Max didn't get it done.

How many times have we had RISP with no outs and can't get them home? How many times in these close games have we had RISP in the 9th with no outs or 1 out and completely failed to do anything?

If you want Dave fired then ok fine. But can you at least provide the list of mistakes he's making? Can you even provide a possible solution to a problem?

He made a mistake when he thought he seen the Ump announce a hitter. I count one.

I'm sorry I can't subscribe to bench Harper for MAT. Or continuously removing the SP after 4 and 1/3 when playing 18 straight games. Or firing the manager half way through. These ideas are silly, lack any planning whatsoever, and don't improve the issues the team is experiencing... unless you know a manager who can simply turn it around.

And not just Dave, but the entire coaching staff. Unless you are saying that the roster is perfectly fine. And all the staff is perfectly fine. And the only issue is Dave... sorry that seems unlikely.

These ideas makes less sense as letting Dusty go. They are just uneducated ideas.

Yes Dusty is gone. I was happy to hear he was hired and not Bud Black. When I first Bud Black got the job I was disappointed. I liked Dusty and if had my way he would have been back. But he isn't, and it's time to move on from that.

If there is a manager and coaching staff just sitting home then ok. But it doesn't seem likely. They'd have a job to start the season.

What's your point?

[Ray D]

What's your point?

Let me sum it up for you.  This discussion of firing Martinez is pointless unless there is some better option. Even Joe Girardi - if we could lure him back - and we can't -- wouldn't win without a coaching staff.  Girardi isn't going to be able to put together a winning coaching staff, the good coaches are coaching.  So those who want to fire the manager and coaching staff, please tell us who to replace them with.

[bluestreak]

Dusty didn’t have Juan Soto fall into his lap.

Look, I don’t know if Dusty would have done any better with this team. But I do know he got 95 wins back to back with similar personnel.
But even if (when) the Nats make the playoffs, I don’t see what anyone sees in Martinez that makes you think he will be some playoff savant (the whole reason the last manager was cashiered).

And if you’re looking for an area that Martinez has underperformed in, its managing the pitching staff. Everyone complains that Madson and Kintzler suck this year. But they have been overworked. Solis too.  And that overwork early is at least in Dave’s head a little now when he leaves his starters in too long. That and he doesn’t have the gravitas to, say, tell Gio that he needs to shut up and hit the showers after walking in a run.

[Greg_SRT]

What's your point?

If you can't figure out the point, then you probably can't tie your shoe laces. So theres no reason to try to explain it differently.

For someone who thinks they are trolling with precision, you sure do this trolling thing worse than below average youtube trolls.

[Scraps]

I was hopeful for Dave Martinez but the words coming from his mouth at his press conferences in the past week are certainly not what you want to hear from a team leader. I’m “old school” so there isn’t much I like about Martinez especially him getting close to his players with all the hugs, kisses, and playing grab-ass on the bench with them.
I’m open to new ideas but the manager will always have to create separation from his players if he thinks he’ll ever get their respect.

With all the Latin players now coming through the Rizzo pipeline this could be a long slow death with Dave “grab-ass” Martinez as our manager.

[Greg_SRT]

Dusty didn’t have Juan Soto fall into his lap.

Look, I don’t know if Dusty would have done any better with this team. But I do know he got 95 wins back to back with similar personnel.
But even if (when) the Nats make the playoffs, I don’t see what anyone sees in Martinez that makes you think he will be some playoff savant (the whole reason the last manager was cashiered).

And if you’re looking for an area that Martinez has underperformed in, its managing the pitching staff. Everyone complains that Madson and Kintzler suck this year. But they have been overworked. Solis too.  And that overwork early is at least in Dave’s head a little now when he leaves his starters in too long. That and he doesn’t have the gravitas to, say, tell Gio that he needs to shut up and hit the showers after walking in a run.

But wouldn't taking out SP's earlier mean more work for the overworked bullpen? Or are you just saying that certain Bullpen arms seen too much work? Just trying to understand.

[PowerBoater69]

Let me sum it up for you.  This discussion of firing Martinez is pointless unless there is some better option. Even Joe Girardi - if we could lure him back - and we can't -- wouldn't win without a coaching staff.  Girardi isn't going to be able to put together a winning coaching staff, the good coaches are coaching.  So those who want to fire the manager and coaching staff, please tell us who to replace them with.

Email that thought to October 2017

[mitlen]

I was hopeful for Dave Martinez but the words coming from his mouth at his press conferences in the past week are certainly not what you want to hear from a team leader. I’m “old school” so there isn’t much I like about Martinez especially him getting close to his players with all the hugs, kisses, and playing grab-ass on the bench with them.
I’m open to new ideas but the manager will always have to create separation from his players if he thinks he’ll ever get their respect.

With all the Latin players now coming through the Rizzo pipeline this could be a long slow death with Dave “grab-ass” Martinez as our manager.

I must be old.    I haven't heard the term "playing grab-ass" used like this in ages.       

[bluestreak]

But wouldn't taking out SP's earlier mean more work for the overworked bullpen? Or are you just saying that certain Bullpen arms seen too much work? Just trying to understand.

I’m saying that early in the season, the bullpen was overworked. This was despite the starters having the second best ERA in baseball. And that overwork led to multiple pitchers ending up on DL and Solis sucking. Now that the starters have been hurt/sucking, you can’t lean on your bullpen as much because they were overworked in April and May.
I am certain some of the calculus behind leaving starters in too long now is not wanting to further overwork the pen.

That being said, all of this isn’t/wouldn’t have been a problem if this team could score runs. That is the source of all the ills, as others have stated.

[Greg_SRT]

I’m saying that early in the season, the bullpen was overworked. This was despite the starters having the second best ERA in baseball. And that overwork led to multiple pitchers ending up on DL and Solis sucking. Now that the starters have been hurt/sucking, you can’t lean on your bullpen as much because they we overworked in April and May.
I am certain some of the calculus behind leaving starters in too long now is not wanting to further overwork the pen.

That being said, all of this isn’t/wouldn’t have been a problem if this team could score runs. That is the source of all the ills, as others have stated.

I got ya. Thanks.

Some on this board feel the opposite tho. They say he over worked the SP.

[Scraps]

Let me sum it up for you.  This discussion of firing Martinez is pointless unless there is some better option. Even Joe Girardi - if we could lure him back - and we can't -- wouldn't win without a coaching staff.  Girardi isn't going to be able to put together a winning coaching staff, the good coaches are coaching.  So those who want to fire the manager and coaching staff, please tell us who to replace them with.

Ray, you are correct. Martinez is going nowhere soon. Rizzo obviously brought Martinez in here to accommodate all the Latin players moving through his pipeline.
Better hope Martinez can learn from his mistakes or this could be a long slow death for Nats fans.

[rileyn]

Ray, you are correct. Martinez is going nowhere soon. Rizzo obviously brought Martinez in here to accommodate all the Latin players moving through his pipeline.
Better hope Martinez can learn from his mistakes or this could be a long slow death for Nats fans.

Davey Martinez was born in Brooklyn and is American.  He taught himself to speak Spanish after his playing career, so he speaks it about as well as I do (I can get by).  He is not appeasing any of our players, no matter what language they speak. 

[varoadking]

Reading the article will bring clarity to the comment.

Pretty spot on commentary...it's clear that lil' d either doesn't know when to pull pitchers, or is afraid to...

All 3 examples he stated were something most of us saw...but not him.  I forgot about Rodriguez...that should have been a no brainier for any manager, and the Fredde and Gio instances were simply inexplicable...

Thanks for posting that...

[imref]

Pretty spot on commentary...it's clear that lil' d either doesn't know when to pull pitchers, or is afraid to...

All 3 examples he stated were something most of us saw...but not him.  I forgot about Rodriguez...that should have been a no brainier for any manager, and the Fredde and Gio instances were simply inexplicable...

Thanks for posting that...

it was a good read - thanks.  It is a pretty good point that he's being too deferential to his pitchers in trying to get them a W.  We saw the anti-Dave in Gabe Kapler the other other yanking Arietta early.  He could learn something from that.  But this is a "Dave" issue and not necessarily an indicator of rookie managers struggling.

[PowerBoater69]

@jorgecastillo Having a 7-man bullpen now means Martinez will have to play matchups less. He'll have to trust guys to get both righties and lefties out more often.

Uh oh

[DCFan]

Uh oh

It means more of what we saw last night - suck it up because I'm not utilizing the entire bullpen every freakin night.

[Slateman]

Individually sure, but a bunch of guys excelling as a group is an indication of good leadership.

Really?

Turner regressed at the plate from 2016 to 2017. Roark's ERA doubled. Matt Wieters woefully underperformed. Murphy's average dropped 25 points.

Harper went from a unanimous MVP in 2015 to a .243 hitter.

[spidernat]

He'll have to trust guys to get both righties and lefties out more often.

major leaguers expected to get batters out irrespective of which side of the plate they hit from, imagine that, what then freak is the world coming to

[hotshot]

I was hopeful for Dave Martinez but the words coming from his mouth at his press conferences in the past week are certainly not what you want to hear from a team leader. I’m “old school” so there isn’t much I like about Martinez especially him getting close to his players with all the hugs, kisses, and playing grab-ass on the bench with them.
I’m open to new ideas but the manager will always have to create separation from his players if he thinks he’ll ever get their respect.

With all the Latin players now coming through the Rizzo pipeline this could be a long slow death with Dave “grab-ass” Martinez as our manager.

He's starting to sound like poor Buck Showalter.

[hotshot]

Really?

Turner regressed at the plate from 2016 to 2017. Roark's ERA doubled. Matt Wieters woefully underperformed. Murphy's average dropped 25 points.

Harper went from a unanimous MVP in 2015 to a .243 hitter.

Wieters really didn't "underperform." He hadn't hit in Baltimore either -- for a couple seasons or more. Always injured too. A plain and simple terrible signing.

[UMDNats]

I don't really care for whatever managers say in press conferences because as long as they're taking the heat off the players and not directly throwing guys under the bus it's fine.

But man, it's past overdue that someone in the dugout at least pretend that they care.

[Air Desmond]

42-43.

Shutout for the 9th time this season.

Lost 17 of 22.

#FireDavey