Offseason moves?

[NJ Ave]

they have asdrubal cabrera wy would they be looking to trade to fill a nonexistent hole?

Wait, I thought we were talking about SSs, and here you are talking about a 3B.

[NJ Ave]

It isn't helpful to describe someone as an "ace" of a mediocre pitching staff, any more than it is to call him a #4 starter if he was on the Nationals. He's a likely 3 win pitcher who's going to make about $10 million in arbitration. He's $5 million in excess value, plus the draft pick.

[HalfSmokes]

It isn't helpful to describe someone as an "ace" of a mediocre pitching staff, any more than it is to call him a #4 starter if he was on the Nationals. He's a likely 3 win pitcher who's going to make about $10 million in arbitration. He's $5 million in excess value, plus the draft pick.

if they trade away mastersson, they loose their number1/ace/guy who throws opening day- call him what you will, he's their best starter. Trading him away implies that they are interested to the medium to long term, trading him away to acquire a guy with two years of team control left makes little sense unless they plan on pursuing free agent pitching (which seems unlikely)

[NJ Ave]

I'm interested in what you think Giancarlo Stanton would fetch if the Marlins trade him after this season, as everyone expects. He'll be in the same position as Ian Desmond is right now, heading into his last two years of arbitration. Or what do you think teams will give up for David Price, who's in the same position right now as Desmond? These are basically similarly valued players to Desmond over the previous two years, and that's being generous to Stanton and Price.

So I'm interested to know if you just think teams pay too high a price for these players? Or if you don't think Desmond is as good? Because if Tampa's price for Texas for David Price is "Profar PLUS" then any price for Ian Desmond from another team should be "best prospect PLUS" as well.

[The Chief]

So has anything actually happened in 63 pages of offseason thus far?

[NJ Ave]

if they trade away mastersson, they loose their number1/ace/guy who throws opening day- call him what you will, he's their best starter. Trading him away implies that they are interested to the medium to long term, trading him away to acquire a guy with two years of team control left makes little sense unless they plan on pursuing free agent pitching (which seems unlikely)

Obviously it depends on what they have to replace him with, I don't really know that much about Cleveland's system depth.

But in a vacuum, last year they had

SP: Masterson 3.4 WAR
RP: Allen 1.0 WAR
SS: Cabrera 0.6 WAR

For a total of 5 WAR.

And next year they'd have:

SP:
RP:
SS: Desmond 5.0 WAR

for a total of 5 WAR.

So if they replace Masterson and Allen with ANYONE above replacement, they come out ahead. Theoretically of course. Plus, there's the 5 WAR they'll get from Desmond in 2015, when they would be getting nothing from Masterson.

[blue911]

So has anything actually happened in 63 pages of offseason thus far?

 

[Ray D]

Great answer.  Really, explain to me the problem with signing Beltran and then having to worry about Span?  What is the problem?  Who cares?  he can be a 4th Ofr

Sorry, been away  almost a week, but would like to respond on Span.   What it all comes down to is that you and I value him differently.  You're looking at the huge disappointment of the first two or three months.  Me, I'm looking at the adjustment he made, to a more aggressive hitter, and the results in the second half. That, and his superb fielding, I think he really is the centerfield piece that Rizzo wanted, and why mess with that, when there are other areas that need much more attention.

[HalfSmokes]

Obviously it depends on what they have to replace him with, I don't really know that much about Cleveland's system depth.

But in a vacuum, last year they had

SP: Masterson 3.4 WAR
RP: Allen 1.0 WAR
SS: Cabrera 0.6 WAR

For a total of 5 WAR.

And next year they'd have:

SP:
RP:
SS: Desmond 5.0 WAR

for a total of 5 WAR.

So if they replace Masterson and Allen with ANYONE above replacement, they come out ahead. Theoretically of course. Plus, there's the 5 WAR they'll get from Desmond in 2015, when they would be getting nothing from Masterson.

They already have to replace Jimenez  and Kazmir- asking a farm system to provide three starters is a tall order, you could go to free agency, but that gets expensive

[zimm_da_kid]

We'd have to give up more than Desmond to recieve that haul.

I'm not disagreeing with you but there are a lot more 2 starters in baseball than there are shortstops of Desi's caliber.

[NJ Ave]

They already have to replace Jimenez  and Kazmir- asking a farm system to provide three starters is a tall order, you could go to free agency, but that gets expensive

True, Cleveland being a trading destination was not my biggest point, my point was what type of package I imagine Rizzo would be asking for. I would be betting for a top MI prospect and a SP to fill the back of the rotation for a year or two.

And while it seems like a lot, this is what you can demand for 5-win+ players. Curtis Granderson brought the Tigers Austin Jackson, Max Scherzer and Phil Coke with loads of team control years. And it's not like Brian Cashman is a dummy. James Shields and Wade Davis brought that haul to Tampa. David Price and Giancarlo Stanton would bring hauls.

I think people must just not think Desmond is really this good.

[sph274]

Wait, I thought we were talking about SSs, and here you are talking about a 3B.

asdrubal cabrera has played one game at 3B in his entire career. he is a ss. he is the starting ss for the cleveland indians next season. they will let him walk after 2015 and then lindor will lside in. there is no chance in hell the cleveland indians trade for ian desmond.

[HalfSmokes]

True, Cleveland being a trading destination was not my biggest point, my point was what type of package I imagine Rizzo would be asking for. I would be betting for a top MI prospect and a SP to fill the back of the rotation for a year or two.

And while it seems like a lot, this is what you can demand for 5-win+ players. Curtis Granderson brought the Tigers Austin Jackson, Max Scherzer and Phil Coke with loads of team control years. And it's not like Brian Cashman is a dummy. James Shields and Wade Davis brought that haul to Tampa. David Price and Giancarlo Stanton would bring hauls.

I think people must just not think Desmond is really this good.

I think you're right about being able to get a large haul for him, I still think it would be a bad idea- right now we have a bunch of very good players either in their primes or nearing their primes- the time to win is now

[PebbleBall]

That's interesting. The Strasburg/Harper comment leads me to believe you're wrong, that at least some people think the ridiculous side is Washington being willing to give up Desmond for that.

He was right.  The Strasburg/Harper comment was to mean that the trade was seriously lopsided in the Nats favor.

[Mr Clean]

Nats sign P Manny Delcarmen to minor league contract. That will get the ball rolling.

[NJ Ave]

asdrubal cabrera has played one game at 3B in his entire career. he is a ss. he is the starting ss for the cleveland indians next season. they will let him walk after 2015 and then lindor will lside in. there is no chance in hell the cleveland indians trade for ian desmond.

Stop interrupting SS talk to discuss 3B:)

[zimm_da_kid]

And while it seems like a lot, this is what you can demand for 5-win+ players. Curtis Granderson brought the Tigers Austin Jackson, Max Scherzer and Phil Coke with loads of team control years.

Tigers also gave up Edwin Jackson who back then was more well-regarded than scherzer.

[Vega]

The complexity of the Granderson trade makes it a poor yardstick by which to measure other potential deals.

[PebbleBall]

Obviously it depends on what they have to replace him with, I don't really know that much about Cleveland's system depth.

But in a vacuum, last year they had

SP: Masterson 3.4 WAR
RP: Allen 1.0 WAR
SS: Cabrera 0.6 WAR

For a total of 5 WAR.

And next year they'd have:

SP:
RP:
SS: Desmond 5.0 WAR

for a total of 5 WAR.

So if they replace Masterson and Allen with ANYONE above replacement, they come out ahead. Theoretically of course. Plus, there's the 5 WAR they'll get from Desmond in 2015, when they would be getting nothing from Masterson.

Since GM's are trading by WAR, let's trade Span for Kimbrel + prospects

[PC]

Nats sign P Manny Delcarmen to minor league contract. That will get the ball rolling.

CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!1!111!ONE!!1!

[zimm_da_kid]

Comment From David
 The Nationals have been extremely quiet so far, this offseason. It’s generally assumed they need a starting pitcher along with some bullpen and bench help, but I haven’t heard any names AT ALL. Any names you think fit there?

9:24
Jeff Sullivan: With the Nationals anyone and everyone can seem like a fit, no matter the price. I think the holdup right now is that the Nationals most need a starting pitcher and that market is still developing what with the Tanaka delay. I think it’s going to take Tanaka landing for the main starters to find their markets and no one’s going to want to budge first

9:25
Jeff Sullivan: I expect the Nationals to be players for prominent names, per usual. Not saying that’s the right thing, but it’s my expected thing

from today's fangraphs chat

[zimm_da_kid]

Nats sign P Manny Delcarmen to minor league contract. That will get the ball rolling.

Adam Kilgore ‏@AdamKilgoreWP  4m 
Delcarmen pitched all of 2013 at AAA for Baltimore. He last pitched in the majors in 2010. Was throwing 93-97 in the Dominican this winter.

sounds like a good flyer.  he'll at least be as good as joe bisenius.

[Vega]

I remember when the talk was that we wanted Delcarmen from Boston for Nick Johnson and that was supposedly too much.

[Lintyfresh85]

I think Delcarmen was off limits for the Indians in the trade of VMart as well. Crazy how injuries change things.

[mitlen]

Nats sign P Manny Delcarmen to minor league contract. That will get the ball rolling.

I remember when the talk was that we wanted Delcarmen from Boston for Nick Johnson and that was supposedly too much.

Not familiar with this guy but I am gettin' HRod flashbacks.