Author Topic: Team spending on Free Agents: When? Why? Who?  (Read 10419 times)

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Offline OfftheBat

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2024, 12:19:20 pm »
With the mid-contract Werth adjustment, the Lerners have never done a $100 million+ contract without deferrals.  And given the dysfunctional way the team has been run the last couple years, doubt they've changed their ways.  Therefore, this will likely be another offseason of either not spending, or deferring spend into the distant future.


Time will tell...

Offline OfftheBat

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2024, 12:19:37 pm »
So Lerner says that Rizzo will have the financial resources he needs for next year.

:pray:


He said that on the Junkies?

Online imref

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2024, 12:45:22 pm »

He said that on the Junkies?
TalkNats reported it, citing a source within the organization.

Online Slateman

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2024, 12:47:08 pm »
But who knows what that means? Technically, he had the reaources he needed last offseason.

Either the team adds 35+ million in AAV of new contracts or I'm pretty much not tuning in.

Online imref

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2024, 01:17:21 pm »
But who knows what that means? Technically, he had the reaources he needed last offseason.

Either the team adds 35+ million in AAV of new contracts or I'm pretty much not tuning in.
Lerner told Rizzo pretty much the same thing last year.

Online Slateman

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2024, 04:00:19 pm »
In 2024 the Cardinals were 13th in revenue and 11th in payroll. As of July Bleacher Report has their minor leagues ranked 18th. If they're dumping salary they're probably not going to contend for anything for a while.

The Nats are 14th in revenue and 19th in payroll. The Bleacher Report has their minor league ranking as 17th as of July.

The Nats can afford to pay a free agent or two or trade for a player making some bucks this offseason. Especially since they're losing Corbin's contract.

The only thing I can think of is the Bally Sports deals going away. Other than that, I dont know why you'd extend the manager and GM if you're going to blow up the team.

Offline DSLDSL

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2024, 04:13:06 pm »
Get rid of Rizzo and get rid of Martinez. Yes, I know their contracts were extended. Is it about money or scouting? Other  teams do better with a smaller payroll (Orioles, Detroit). I see other teams improving from season to season.  Orioles as of 2021, KC won 56 games last season, now in the playoff with 86 games won. I can keep on going with examples. Can someone explain why  Rizzo and a Martinez are still here?

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2024, 05:31:36 pm »
Get rid of Rizzo and get rid of Martinez. Yes, I know their contracts were extended. Is it about money or scouting? Other  teams do better with a smaller payroll (Orioles, Detroit). I see other teams improving from season to season.  Orioles as of 2021, KC won 56 games last season, now in the playoff with 86 games won. I can keep on going with examples. Can someone explain why  Rizzo and a Martinez are still here?


There are multiple examples of a team stinking up the joint one year, Diamondbacks and Rangers last year, the Royals this year, and then going to the playoffs the following year. With the direction the Nats are going if they add a pitcher and a first baseman it gives hope for a fun season next year.

Online Slateman

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2024, 05:35:07 pm »
Get rid of Rizzo and get rid of Martinez. Yes, I know their contracts were extended. Is it about money or scouting? Other  teams do better with a smaller payroll (Orioles, Detroit). I see other teams improving from season to season.  Orioles as of 2021, KC won 56 games last season, now in the playoff with 86 games won. I can keep on going with examples. Can someone explain why  Rizzo and a Martinez are still here?
Baltimore has a higher payroll than Washington.

The only reason the Nats are higher than Detroit is the Strasburg deal.

Baltimore and KC spent a decade sucking.

Also, who are you replacing Rizzo and Martinez with?

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2024, 05:59:42 pm »
TalkNats reported it, citing a source within the organization.

He said it last year, and also promised to be back in the free agent market "soon" before the '23 season.  While I think their backs are up against the wall in terms of having to spend this offseason, judge by actions, not words.

Online varoadking

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2024, 06:02:17 pm »

Also, who are you replacing Rizzo and Martinez with?

Carbon Rods...

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2024, 06:15:07 pm »
There are multiple examples of a team stinking up the joint one year, Diamondbacks and Rangers last year, the Royals this year, and then going to the playoffs the following year. With the direction the Nats are going if they add a pitcher and a first baseman it gives hope for a fun season next year.

Yeah, and they hold people accountable.  The Royals fired GM Dayton Moore after last season, who also won a WS as their GM, and spent in the offseason. 

The Diamondbacks had 3 losing seasons in a row, not 5 like the Nats, and DFA'd MadBum with $30 million left on his contract, which would never happen here.  They also sat Corbin Carroll while he worked through a slump and sent Jordan Montgomery to the 'pen, neither of which would have happened here given the contracts. 

The Rangers fired manager Chris Woodward and GM Jon Daniels in '22, and spent $500 million FAs...without a dollar of deferrals, which also wouldn't happen here.

The Nats will likely improve next year simply because it's fairly rare to go 5 seasons in a row under .450, and the young players will improve.
However, there are a lot of issues around defense, swinging outside the zone, caught stealing/baserunning, lack of power, poor coaching, etc that need to be addressed.


Offline OfftheBat

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2024, 11:11:45 am »
Let me count the reasons.


lol. I would say non-serious/incompetent ownership as the #1 reason

Offline Smithian

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2024, 04:11:13 pm »
Time to spend:
https://www.masnsports.com/blog/are-nats-ready-to-spend-again-to-supplement-young-roster
They'll never say "no money"

We'll know if the answer is "yes" or "no" by the results. If the Lerner family were to tell Rizzo to assemble a major league average payroll, or even a payroll in the lower middle third (16-20), he could easily go out and sign some decent FAs and pick up a couple salary dumps from other clubs.

Especially with the TV chaos now hitting a lot of franchises, there is talent to be had if the Lerners give Rizzo a bit of room to run. It doesn't have to be "go sign Corbin Burnes and go from there until we've added $100 million in payroll." Even getting to that middle ground would be enough to add plenty of talent.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2024, 12:46:52 am »
The royals should be a model for us.

They fired their GM after last season, ours got a bobblehead night.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2024, 03:32:19 pm »
Time to spend:
https://www.masnsports.com/blog/are-nats-ready-to-spend-again-to-supplement-young-roster

When even Zuckerman and MASN run a time-to-spend article, you know there's hope that the excuses and lies for not spending are no longer going down with the media and the large portions of the fanbase who have been way too forgiving and accepting of tough to watch, bargain bin baseball.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2024, 06:21:32 pm »
When even Zuckerman and MASN run a time-to-spend article, you know there's hope that the excuses and lies for not spending are no longer going down with the media and the large portions of the fanbase who have been way too forgiving and accepting of tough to watch, bargain bin baseball.

You keep saying " large portions of the fanbase who have been way too forgiving and accepting of tough to watch, bargain bin baseball."

What specific behavior are you talking about and what do you suggest the fan base do differently.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2024, 07:11:45 pm »
You keep saying " large portions of the fanbase who have been way too forgiving and accepting of tough to watch, bargain bin baseball."

What specific behavior are you talking about and what do you suggest the fan base do differently.

I've said it many times.  There are many fans who've sat back and accepted the Lerners' refusal to spend and Rizzo's PR cover for it.  In many cases they've even defended it as the right thing to do, which is absurd.  Fans have to stop with low expectations, and with allowing ownership to tank half the seasons, which has been the case since the Lerners bought the team in 2006. 

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2024, 07:32:43 pm »
I've said it many times.  There are many fans who've sat back and accepted the Lerners' refusal to spend and Rizzo's PR cover for it.  In many cases they've even defended it as the right thing to do, which is absurd.  Fans have to stop with low expectations, and with allowing ownership to tank half the seasons, which has been the case since the Lerners bought the team in 2006.

So you're saying fans should criticize them more on forums like this instead of defending the decision to rebuild?

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2024, 07:38:51 pm »
I've said it many times.  There are many fans who've sat back and accepted the Lerners' refusal to spend and Rizzo's PR cover for it.  In many cases they've even defended it as the right thing to do, which is absurd.  Fans have to stop with low expectations, and with allowing ownership to tank half the seasons, which has been the case since the Lerners bought the team in 2006.
Lumping 2008-10 in with the last few seasons is just ridiculous. They had just bought a franchise that had been run into the ground by MLB and Loria. It’s fair to attack the last few years but to limp those earlier seasons in is disingenuous. And you know that. Don’t forget the Phillies are coming off 9 straight non winning seasons. The Royals are coming off 7 straight losing seasons including more than 100 losses last season. Add Detroit to that mix. Once Strasburg was hurt and they knew Corbin sucked and Soto would not sign, a rebuild was necessary. We will see what happens this off-season.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2024, 07:42:24 pm »
So you're saying fans should criticize them more on forums like this instead of defending the decision to rebuild?
He wants more booing. It’s why the Phillies were only terrible from 2012-20. It would have lasted longer without the booing.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2024, 07:48:21 pm »
Lumping 2008-10 in with the last few seasons is just ridiculous. They had just bought a franchise that had been run into the ground by MLB and Loria. It’s fair to attack the last few years but to limp those earlier seasons in is disingenuous. And you know that. Don’t forget the Phillies are coming off 9 straight non winning seasons. The Royals are coming off 7 straight losing seasons including more than 100 losses last season. Add Detroit to that mix. Once Strasburg was hurt and they knew Corbin sucked and Soto would not sign, a rebuild was necessary. We will see what happens this off-season.

Thanks for proving my point.  The Phillies at least tried to win and fired managers and GMs along the way, at no point did they say this was ok.  The Royals fired the WS-winning GM after last season and spent, and they also play in one of the smallest markets.  The 2006-2010 period was a tragedy that decimated a fan base that started to build in '05, and the only salvation was two indisputable #1 picks thanks to the old drafting rules.  The '20-'24 period decimated a fan base that could have been built up after the WS.

This franchise is run like a bureaucracy, not a business.  Rizzo provides PR cover for the Lerners, Davey plays along with peculiar lineups, including play-the-contract and trade chips Rizzo wants in the lineup, and Davey gets to keep his friends as coaches.  Meanwhile, the team plays miserable baseball with far too many core fans accepting it, and no one being held accountable for it.  Bureaucracies require reinforcing the political structure of the organization, businesses require results.  This org is the former.

Keibert will be a drag on this team for the next six seasons just as Corbin was for the last five, other teams don't do this, and comparing this bureaucratic train wreck to other franchises that hold people accountable for winning reflects the losing mindset that has to go.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2024, 08:05:28 pm »
So you're saying fans should criticize them more on forums like this instead of defending the decision to rebuild?

That was a decision to dump salary and not to spend, "rebuild" and "reboot" were Rizzo's PR terms to justify it.  No other franchise has had 2 separate runs over 5 years+ of sub .450 ball this century.  No other team in MLB history has finished last four straight years after winning a World Series.  At some point, there has to be pressure to win, not to spin.

The Giants won 3 WS in the 2010s, no one there uses that as justification to keep coaches, managers, or FO executives around.  The GM was fired just three seasons after a 100+ win season in '21, the manager two seasons after.   Winning one WS in 20 years is great, but statistically not that much above average.  5 playoff runs in 20 seasons is below league average of 6.4 for that period.   Rizzo, Davey, and the coaches should all be long gone by now, but spinning has taken precedence over winning.

Thankfully, I think patience has worn thin now, as we saw with the MASN article, and it's no longer just Thom Loverro pointing it out.  So I think the excessive patience and tolerance of losing is wearing out among those who previously drank the Kool Aid.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Re: Re: Now we’re having fun: 2025 Nats Roster
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2024, 11:57:29 pm »
That was a decision to dump salary and not to spend, "rebuild" and "reboot" were Rizzo's PR terms to justify it.  No other franchise has had 2 separate runs over 5 years+ of sub .450 ball this century.  No other team in MLB history has finished last four straight years after winning a World Series.  At some point, there has to be pressure to win, not to spin.

The Giants won 3 WS in the 2010s, no one there uses that as justification to keep coaches, managers, or FO executives around.  The GM was fired just three seasons after a 100+ win season in '21, the manager two seasons after.   Winning one WS in 20 years is great, but statistically not that much above average.  5 playoff runs in 20 seasons is below league average of 6.4 for that period.   Rizzo, Davey, and the coaches should all be long gone by now, but spinning has taken precedence over winning.

Thankfully, I think patience has worn thin now, as we saw with the MASN article, and it's no longer just Thom Loverro pointing it out.  So I think the excessive patience and tolerance of losing is wearing out among those who previously drank the Kool Aid.

As was pointed out earlier by the time the team got to DC it had been stripped worse than if they were an expansion team so it's not fair to lump those years into the statistics you quoted. I think everybody agrees now is the time to add some veteran free agents to supplement the young talent.

But that wasn't my question. When you say the fans have accepted losing what exactly did you want them to do differently.