Team spending on Free Agents: When? Why? Who?

[Slateman]

That was a decision to dump salary and not to spend, "rebuild" and "reboot" were Rizzo's PR terms to justify it.  No other franchise has had 2 separate runs over 5 years+ of sub .450 ball this century.  No other team in MLB history has finished last four straight years after winning a World Series.  At some point, there has to be pressure to win, not to spin.

The Giants won 3 WS in the 2010s, no one there uses that as justification to keep coaches, managers, or FO executives around.  The GM was fired just three seasons after a 100+ win season in '21, the manager two seasons after.   Winning one WS in 20 years is great, but statistically not that much above average.  5 playoff runs in 20 seasons is below league average of 6.4 for that period.   Rizzo, Davey, and the coaches should all be long gone by now, but spinning has taken precedence over winning.

Thankfully, I think patience has worn thin now, as we saw with the MASN article, and it's no longer just Thom Loverro pointing it out.  So I think the excessive patience and tolerance of losing is wearing out among those who previously drank the Kool Aid.

Lol, the Giants literally just made Buster Posey their GM.

[Natsinpwc]

Lol, the Giants literally just made Buster Posey their GM.

The Giants have been dumping GMs and coaches and it’s not working.

[sixthree175]

Keibert will be a drag on this team for the next six seasons just as Corbin was for the last five, other teams don't do this, and comparing this bureaucratic train wreck to other franchises that hold people accountable for winning reflects the losing mindset that has to go.

Keibert is a poor man's Wilson Ramos.  Forget about his contract (water under the bridge). and count on him only  as a backup.
Bring Corbin back for $1mm and use him in the bullpen.  He's come this far...

[Smithian]

Keibert will be a drag on this team for the next six seasons just as Corbin was for the last five, other teams don't do this, and comparing this bureaucratic train wreck to other franchises that hold people accountable for winning reflects the losing mindset that has to go.

This is a wild take.

Corbin's was clocking in $25 million a year with deferrals on the back end. The Nationals paid Ruiz early and the back end seasons for age 30/31 are only $9 million a pop. Corbin would be unplayable on a team trying to win, Ruiz could be used as a backup catcher. Also, he is only 26, he can still improve.

The Nationals will be paying Patrick Corbin more money in deferrals than they will be paying Ruiz at his peak.

Even if Ruiz doesn't improve in his prime years, Ruiz's salary number is not something that's impossible to eat for a team trying to contend. $25 million for Corbin would be brutal had Nationals been trying to win past couple seasons.

[IanRubbish]

Lol, the Giants literally just made Buster Posey their GM.

Exactly, they let Farhan go because he didn't win.  Meanwhile, the Nats gave Rizzo a bobblehead night to celebrate being the first team ever to finish last four seasons in a row after winning a WS.

But let's just keep falling for all the front office BS while all the casual fans put their money in anything but a Nats ticket.

[IanRubbish]

Even if Ruiz doesn't improve in his prime years, Ruiz's salary number is not something that's impossible to eat for a team trying to contend. $25 million for Corbin would be brutal had Nationals been trying to win past couple seasons.

It's not the number, remember the owner has a very unhealthy relationship with money and once he pays someone on a multi-year contract they're going to play unless injured.  He rarely makes anything public, except of course his hissy fit with a deeply injured Strasburg which embarrassed himself and the franchise, including the pathetic "see you at Spring Training" which Rizzo tried to cover with "uh, uh, yeah, he'll be there to mentor".  So Keibert will play and be a drag on the team until 2030.

[IanRubbish]

The Giants have been dumping GMs and coaches and it’s not working.

Over 30k a night and .500 ball the last three seasons is working a lot better than the 20-40 games under, Mini Me-Rizzo-Davey-Hickey-Coles train wreck in DC.   But let's keep the expectations low and keep praising these useless tools until all the casual fans are gone.

[Slateman]

This is a wild take.

Corbin's was clocking in $25 million a year with deferrals on the back end. The Nationals paid Ruiz early and the back end seasons for age 30/31 are only $9 million a pop. Corbin would be unplayable on a team trying to win, Ruiz could be used as a backup catcher. Also, he is only 26, he can still improve.

The Nationals will be paying Patrick Corbin more money in deferrals than they will be paying Ruiz at his peak.

Even if Ruiz doesn't improve in his prime years, Ruiz's salary number is not something that's impossible to eat for a team trying to contend. $25 million for Corbin would be brutal had Nationals been trying to win past couple seasons.

It really is. If Ruiz performs at 2022 or 2023 levels, he is outperforming his contract.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

It really is. If Ruiz performs at 2022 or 2023 levels, he is outperforming his contract.

basically he needs to be a +1 fWAR performer to outperform his contract. The fact that that is even an issue is damning. Also, no mlb team should be contending conceding a <2 win position.

[IanRubbish]

basically he needs to be a +1 fWAR performer to outperform his contract. The fact that that is even an issue is damning. Also, no mlb team should be contending conceding a <2 win position.

The optimistic view is that he's a drag, but with 6 teams making the playoffs now in each league, chances are good with 85-90 wins. 

[Slateman]

basically he needs to be a +1 fWAR performer to outperform his contract. The fact that that is even an issue is damning. Also, no mlb team should be contending conceding a <2 win position.

He's at 1.9 WAR the first two seasons after signing the contract. Not sure what is damning. Dodgers just did it with Hernandez and Pages playing 120+ games each

[Senatorswin]

I was reading an article in WAPO dated October 27, 2024 about Ted Leonsis. Ted has this to say in the article:

“If you have a really, really successful business — a billion-dollar business — you can make the investments and you choose the priorities,” he said. “My priority would be, we will never lose a great player for money. We have those resources. Look at who the Nationals have lost — MVP-quality players, in their prime, young. I understand why — they’re rebuilding the team, and they’ll be really good soon. But that hurts the fans. … If we owned the Nationals, we would have the resources to not have that happen, if that’s what the GM says.”

It looks like he's saying if he buys the Nationals he won't lose Wood, Crews etc. because of money. He has kept the greatest player in DC history in DC for his entire career but NHL money is not MLB money. This statement may come back to bite him some day as he says he still would like to buy the Nationals.

[welch]

I was reading an article in WAPO dated October 27, 2024 about Ted Leonsis. Ted has this to say in the article:

“If you have a really, really successful business — a billion-dollar business — you can make the investments and you choose the priorities,” he said. “My priority would be, we will never lose a great player for money. We have those resources. Look at who the Nationals have lost — MVP-quality players, in their prime, young. I understand why — they’re rebuilding the team, and they’ll be really good soon. But that hurts the fans. … If we owned the Nationals, we would have the resources to not have that happen, if that’s what the GM says.”

It looks like he's saying if he buys the Nationals he won't lose Wood, Crews etc. because of money. He has kept the greatest player in DC history in DC for his entire career but NHL money is not MLB money. This statement may come back to bite him some day as he says he still would like to buy the Nationals.

I read that article. Leonsis is spilling hogwash about the Nats. He operates the Caps under a tight NHL cap, so he can pay Ovi $10 million a year. Imagine signing a free agent for that. And then ask how much Leonsis has in the bank. He would be competing against the Dodgers and Yankees, the Phillies' owner and Cohen of the Mets, ownership groups with almost unlimited money.

[Natsinpwc]

I was reading an article in WAPO dated October 27, 2024 about Ted Leonsis. Ted has this to say in the article:

“If you have a really, really successful business — a billion-dollar business — you can make the investments and you choose the priorities,” he said. “My priority would be, we will never lose a great player for money. We have those resources. Look at who the Nationals have lost — MVP-quality players, in their prime, young. I understand why — they’re rebuilding the team, and they’ll be really good soon. But that hurts the fans. … If we owned the Nationals, we would have the resources to not have that happen, if that’s what the GM says.”

It looks like he's saying if he buys the Nationals he won't lose Wood, Crews etc. because of money. He has kept the greatest player in DC history in DC for his entire career but NHL money is not MLB money. This statement may come back to bite him some day as he says he still would like to buy the Nationals.

So he would overpay like he has done with the Wizards?  I mean he has one title between the two teams. 

[HalfSmokes]

So he would overpay like he has done with the Wizards?  I mean he has one title between the two teams. 

This. The Wizards have an absurd streak of having one of the worst contracts in basketball on their roster at all times.

Arenas
Rashard Lewis (very briefly)
Blatche
Mahinmi
Wall
Beal
Poole

[nfotiu]

If we matched all the Boras guys, we would have the following on payroll right now:
Harper 27m
Strasburg 35m
Rendon 38m
Soto 50m?

We wouldn't have Wood, probably not Crews, Gore, Abrams...

Blindly extending all your star players isn't really a great strategy.   Especially if they are all Boras guys.

[Senatorswin]

If we matched all the Boras guys, we would have the following on payroll right now:
Harper 27m
Strasburg 35m
Rendon 38m
Soto 50m?

We wouldn't have Wood, probably not Crews, Gore, Abrams...

Blindly extending all your star players isn't really a great strategy.   Especially if they are all Boras guys.

According to Leonsis it would also be $27 million for Turner.

[nfotiu]

According to Leonsis it would also be $27 million for Turner.

Oh yeah Turner!

So 147 million for 2 mvp quality corner OFs and a serviceable SS.  Would we still have Max?

So is he spending another 150 plus luxury tax to put a good team around them?   Or is his promise just to keep the stars?

[Natsinpwc]

Oh yeah Turner!

So 147 million for 2 mvp quality corner OFs and a serviceable SS.  Would we still have Max?

So is he spending another 150 plus luxury tax to put a good team around them?   Or is his promise just to keep the stars?

He has no idea what he means. It’s just BS.

The NBA has rules that allow teams to keep their own free agents. For instance they can offer one more year on a deal when guys first become free agents. And the money they spend on their own guys doesn’t count the same way against the luxury tax line.

[HalfSmokes]

You’d think the guy who extended wall and Beal would have learned a lesson

[Slateman]

You’d think the guy who extended wall and Beal would have learned a lesson

Eh, he was able to get out from under those deals fairly easily. And don't forget, he did sign/extend Ovi, Oshie, Kuznetsov.

Baseball is so different though. You have to build through your farm team, even if it's to trade those pieces for players. That's really what led to the 2021 sell off. The Nats had nothing to trade with to get the pitching they needed.

[Natsinpwc]

Eh, he was able to get out from under those deals fairly easily.

And the team has been a disaster. He finally found a group to convince him to tank and trade Beal. Essentially got nothing for him.

As you say the situation is different in baseball.  Also as I said before the NBA rules are designed to give you an advantage on your own free agents. And flexibility with the luxury tax. I’m sure he knows that and is just being a BS artist. Tell the fans what they want to hear.

[HalfSmokes]

Eh, he was able to get out from under those deals fairly easily. And don't forget, he did sign/extend Ovi, Oshie, Kuznetsov.

Baseball is so different though. You have to build through your farm team, even if it's to trade those pieces for players. That's really what led to the 2021 sell off. The Nats had nothing to trade with to get the pitching they needed.

He got out from under them with nothing in return. Good owners and GMs trade those guys for an actual return instead of holding on to them until the value is zero

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

He got out from under them with nothing in return. Good owners and GMs trade those guys for an actual return instead of holding on to them until the value is zero

I wouldn't say he got nothing. They were able to flip Chris Paul for Jordan Poole who's averaging over 20PPG. I mean, yes, they did it a year too late and it was far less than what they would've got for him but the biggest problem with the Wizards was even when they were good nobody wanted to come here. They nearly made the ECF with two young stars in Beal and Wall and still couldn't get players to come here.

[Senatorswin]

The biggest thing was getting rid of that terrible contract. They weren't going to win anything with him and they were lucky they found a sucker to take the contract. I will say Ted did resign players but again NHL money isn't MLB money.