Change of plans - At what point would you push for a wild card in 2024?

[BigMeech]

Firmly in the sell camp.  Two series against competing wildcard teams and lost 5 of 6.  I wouldn't gut the team of productive players totally since the team isn't bad and probably will improve with the additions of guys like Woods, Cade, Crews, and House in the next year to the point of being a playoff team, but you absolutely should sell some bullpen arms.  Lane Thomas too since he's probably the odd man out once Woods and Crews arrive.

[Scrapple]

Rizzo has made some good trades - Trea Turner and Lane Thomas really stand out, as DJ Herz might be a winner as well.  But he doubles down on his mistakes because of the CYA culture of the org. set by ownership.  He traded for Ruiz, doubled down by giving him an absurd contract, and the team is now tripling down by playing him because of that bad contract.  Having him DH on off days could even be quadrupling down.

Keibert alone won't stop 2025 from being a better season, but he could be a drag on the franchise for awhile.

I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. There is no doubt Rizzo should be kicked in the butt for the Ruiz deal, especially at this stage in his career as a general manager. Nothing short of asinine, he must’ve fallen in love with him prematurely because he was a left-handed hitting catcher. That said, it’s absurd deals like this that make you think Rizzo worked a kickback deal with the agent / agency for personal gain or a promise down the line. Professional sports are as corrupt as our government don’t ever think anything different. Of course this is just an opinion. 🤔

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

I’m not selling Thomas. The rest can go.

[Scrapple]

I’m not selling Thomas. The rest can go.

It will certainly hurt my heart when / if they move Layne Thomas or Jacob Young to make room for others. You know what you have with both of them. Players you can count on day in and day out. It would be nice if Jacob Young could play a little bit of second base so you could classify him as a utility player to keep him around. But that would be a huge experiment I’m sure since he seems a bit rigid with the hands. I would turn over every stone to try to make it work.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

It will certainly hurt my heart when / if they move Layne Thomas or Jacob Young to make room for others. You know what you have with both of them. Players you can count on day in and day out. It would be nice if Jacob Young could play a little bit of second base so you could classify him as a utility player to keep him around. But that would be a huge experiment I’m sure since he seems a bit rigid with the hands. I would turn over every stone to try to make it work.

is biggest asset is his D in center, which is due to a combination of great reads on flies and extraordinary speed. All of that would be wasted at second. It would be great if he were Mookie defensively, but that's a very rare cat. Mookie came up as an infielder and was only moved to the OF due to the presence of Dustin Pedroia. It wasn't crazy to think he could play second last year, so SS was just an extension after he showed he could still play a good 2nd.Young to my knowledge has no experience at any infield position in minors.

[Slateman]

Yea, Young is only worth keeping as a CFer. Either he's a bench OFer, or Lane, Wood, and Crews rotate through the DH spot.

[ZimW1N]

All you listed other than Thomas and perhaps Finnegan (depending on what they can get) would be fine with me.

If you are not trading the two most valuable guys then there isn't much point to selling. There's no reason. To keep Finnegan on an expiring contract in a year where we aren't competing. We can always resign him in the off-season if we want to grab a vet mid teir closer in FA.

The only reason to keep Thomas (other than trying to get a WC) is if Crews' ETA is late June/Aug 2025 like James Wood. Given that he's AAA now I'd say he is likely up before this time next year and an ODOF of Wood/Young/Crews is a very real chance.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

If you are not trading the two most valuable guys then there isn't much point to selling. There's no reason. To keep Finnegan on an expiring contract in a year where we aren't competing. We can always resign him in the off-season if we want to grab a vet mid teir closer in FA.

The only reason to keep Thomas (other than trying to get a WC) is if Crews' ETA is late June/Aug 2025 like James Wood. Given that he's AAA now I'd say he is likely up before this time next year and an ODOF of Wood/Young/Crews is a very real chance.

Finnegan, Harvey, Thomas, and Senzel all have another year of team control.

The big expiring contract players are Winker, bullpen pieces Floro / Law / JBarnes, and Wiliams but for his injury. I think Vargas also is on a 1 year contract. 

[Slateman]

Zim is right though. If you're not, at a minumun, trying to sell off Finnegan, Harvey, and Thomas, then yourr basically not doing anything at the deadline. The longer you wait to get those guys, the less you get. And with Finnegan and Harvey, theres a pretty decent amount of risk. Harvey has an injury history.  Finnegan is going to be 33 by the end of the season, is one of the most used relievers in the last four years, and has overachieved his expected stats.

This is an obvious case of selling a year early rather than waiting until its too late

[nobleisthyname]

I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. There is no doubt Rizzo should be kicked in the butt for the Ruiz deal, especially at this stage in his career as a general manager. Nothing short of asinine, he must’ve fallen in love with him prematurely because he was a left-handed hitting catcher. That said, it’s absurd deals like this that make you think Rizzo worked a kickback deal with the agent / agency for personal gain or a promise down the line. Professional sports are as corrupt as our government don’t ever think anything different. Of course this is just an opinion. 🤔

In Rizzo's defense, if you wait for the player to prove themselves they're not signing for $50M anymore. You can't have it both ways.

[welch]

Yea, Young is only worth keeping as a CFer. Either he's a bench OFer, or Lane, Wood, and Crews rotate through the DH spot.

The 2009 Yankees say that this is right, and even better than having to use Damon and Matsui at DH because Matsui's knes were wearing out and Damon could not take the OF every single day. Nothing in the Rules of Baseball says that a DH has to be a big, lumbering power hitter who cannot field any position.

Which means you try to extend Thomas at a reasonable salary. And this OF is what gets the Nats to the playoffs in 2025 and later. In the minors, Hassell keeps breaking down with wrist injuries. Pinckney is hitting decently in AA, but he's not ripping the league apart. Lile just got there. 

[IanRubbish]

In Rizzo's defense, if you wait for the player to prove themselves they're not signing for $50M anymore. You can't have it both ways.

Except Keibert had done nothing to justify $50m.  The year before the deal he had a .673 OPS and was showing issues throwing runners out.   

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

If you are not trading the two most valuable guys then there isn't much point to selling. There's no reason. To keep Finnegan on an expiring contract in a year where we aren't competing. We can always resign him in the off-season if we want to grab a vet mid teir closer in FA.

The only reason to keep Thomas (other than trying to get a WC) is if Crews' ETA is late June/Aug 2025 like James Wood. Given that he's AAA now I'd say he is likely up before this time next year and an ODOF of Wood/Young/Crews is a very real chance.

I like Jacob Young but the dude has no power at all. He's almost no threat at all in the batters box. I get he's young but I'd much rather have Thomas, Crews and Wood out there than Young. Unless the plan is to put Thomas at DH. I'm just not dumping Thomas just to do it and I doubt you're going to get as much for him as some think.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Except Keibert had done nothing to justify $50m.  The year before the deal he had a .673 OPS and was showing issues throwing runners out.

It was mostly projection based on him as a top prospect.  It wasn’t a huge deal in annual value, especially when you consider what players will be making towards the end of that deal.  That’s the gamble with those early extensions.  They’re bargains if the player stays healthy and pans out, and they’re overpays if not.  It’s not a back breaker either way.  Hopefully Ruiz can improve. 

[GataNats]

Have to trade Harvey and Floro.   Thomas and Finny staying.   Winker needs to be traded for a decent return

[Scrapple]

is biggest asset is his D in center, which is due to a combination of great reads on flies and extraordinary speed. All of that would be wasted at second. It would be great if he were Mookie defensively, but that's a very rare cat. Mookie came up as an infielder and was only moved to the OF due to the presence of Dustin Pedroia. It wasn't crazy to think he could play second last year, so SS was just an extension after he showed he could still play a good 2nd.Young to my knowledge has no experience at any infield position in minors.

So it sounds like Young will also be trade bait in the near future as well. As much as I’d like to beat the zerO’s in the World Series, my number one objective is having players on our club that are easy to pull for even if they have some minor shortcomings. That said, losing Jacob Young & Lane Thomas will hurt my heart for sure. 🥲 way to go JCA CC, you made me cry! You should know more than anyone I’m a sensitive Italian. 🍝🥖🥗🍷🍾


BTW thanks for the welcome back note the other day. Been crazy busy doing my part building data centers. That said, I will be retiring in just 13 weeks, 1 day, and 3 hours 33 minutes. 😁 That should free me up to hangout with you guys a bit more often. 🍻🐷

[Scrapple]

In Rizzo's defense, if you wait for the player to prove themselves they're not signing for $50M anymore. You can't have it both ways.

The problem is Ruiz has always had a below average time from glove to glove throwing runners out at second base. Once you’re in professional baseball you’re not likely going to improve much on that if at all. That’s like saying you can fix a pitcher that throws an 87 mph fastball. It’s just not going to happen. The Ruiz contract is Rizzo’s biggest blunder ever imo because he’s been around too long to have let it happen. “53 million dollars” for a bullpen catcher with a bad body. Horrendous!

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

13 weeks, 1 day, and 3 hours 33 27 minutes 

[Scrapple]

13 weeks, 1 day, and 3 hours 33 27 minutes 

Indeed!!! 

[Slateman]

Lol, bad body. He's a catcher, he's supposed to have a bad body. He's got the same body as Wilson Contreras, Salvador Perez, and Fransisco Alvarez.

Also, stolen bases simply do not matter, even with the rule changes. Not in the regular season, anyway. Two of the top ten offenses in baseball have over 80 stolen bases. They don't matter and teams are already reducing the steal attempts.

With ABS coming, pitch framing will be less of an issue. So, offense is going to be a more important factor for catchers. A lot of folks of are crap talking the Ruiz deal now, but were you when it was done? At the end of last year.

At the end of the day, if a 7 million AAV breaks your budget, you're not a contender for the playoffs. Yea, Ruiz struggles at the plate are concerning. But he's 26, there is still time to regain last year's form and improve.

[nobleisthyname]

The problem is Ruiz has always had a below average time from glove to glove throwing runners out at second base. Once you’re in professional baseball you’re not likely going to improve much on that if at all. That’s like saying you can fix a pitcher that throws an 87 mph fastball. It’s just not going to happen. The Ruiz contract is Rizzo’s biggest blunder ever imo because he’s been around too long to have let it happen. “53 million dollars” for a bullpen catcher with a bad body. Horrendous!

If Ruiz was ever going to provide value it was going to be through his bat.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

So it sounds like Young will also be trade bait in the near future as well. As much as I’d like to beat the zerO’s in the World Series, my number one objective is having players on our club that are easy to pull for even if they have some minor shortcomings. That said, losing Jacob Young & Lane Thomas will heart my heart for sure. 🥲 way to go JCA CC, you made me cry! You should know more than anyone I’m a sensitive Italian. 🍝🥖🥗🍷🍾


BTW thanks for the welcome back note the other day. Been crazy busy doing my part building data centers. That said, I will be retiring in just 13 weeks, 1 day, and 3 hours 33 minutes. 😁 That should free me up to hangout with you guys a bit more often. 🍻🐷

hey, I'm not saying they trade Young. I think they can play Wood and Crews next to him, and if they don't deal Thomas, DH him. So both your boys may stay around.

[Scrapple]

hey, I'm not saying they trade Young. I think they can play Wood and Crews next to him, and if they don't deal Thomas, DH him. So both your boys may stay around.

That would be awesome! Love those two boys. I have been thinking about adopting them. 😁

[Scrapple]

Lol, bad body. He's a catcher, he's supposed to have a bad body. He's got the same body as Wilson Contreras, Salvador Perez, and Fransisco Alvarez.

Slate, you’re comparing apples to oranges. Those guys not only throw out runners they hit and hit for real power. Ruiz can’t throw out runners, isn’t athletic enough to play any other position, and we can do better than him at the DH position. He’ll be a one year wonder when it’s all said and done. 3 hitter, 3-4 power, 5-6 receiving, 4 arm, 2 runner, 2-3 athleticism. If that adds up to a “53 million dollar contract” you and I need to meet up and play some catch tomorrow! I’m attempting a comeback!!! 

[Natsinpwc]

Some guys can carry more weight and are more athletic. And better hitters. Such as Contreras. Ruiz is certainly no JTR.