Author Topic: Astros stealing signs - But Dusty to the Rescue (Read 49536 times)

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #200 on:** January 10, 2020, 09:00:25 am »

Alex Cora can no longer avoid the stain of illicit sign stealing
He's forever a cheater now, the thread between the trash can and the replay room, and he'll pay for it.

An opinion piece on Boston.com, but comes down hard on him.

stanleycaps98 · « **Reply #201 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:01:51 pm »

Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have been suspended for one year after an MLB investigation found the team used technology to cheat during its World Series-winning 2017 season, sources familiar with the punishment tell ESPN.

Per sources, MLB’s penalties for Astros include:

*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.

*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.

*A fine of $5M.

This is for 2017. What about 2018 and 2019? I mean, they were stealing signs against Stras and others in the WS this year.

IMO, they should probably be stripped of their titles, and what about the players who were complicit? They cheated too!

imref · « **Reply #202 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:06:07 pm »

Quote from: stanleycaps98 on January 13, 2020, 02:01:51 pm

Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have been suspended for one year after an MLB investigation found the team used technology to cheat during its World Series-winning 2017 season, sources familiar with the punishment tell ESPN.

RobDibblesGhost · « **Reply #203 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:06:32 pm »

Quote from: imref on January 13, 2020, 02:06:07 pm

imref · « **Reply #204 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:10:05 pm »

it actually seems kind of a light penalty. Basically betting on your own team gets you a lifetime suspension, but actually cheating to win games only gets you a one year suspension.

I don't know how you don't suspend both for life.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #205 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:13:20 pm »

Quote from: imref on January 13, 2020, 02:10:05 pm

it actually seems kind of a light penalty. Basically betting on your own team gets you a lifetime suspension, but actually cheating to win games only gets you a one year suspension.

I don't know how you don't suspend both for life.

it's a nothing penalty- what owner wouldn't jump at trading a fine equivalent to a middle reliever's salary and a 1 year suspension for a coach and GM (how is that one even enforced) in exchange for a ring?

bluestreak · « **Reply #206 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:13:53 pm »

Quote from: imref on January 13, 2020, 02:10:05 pm

it actually seems kind of a light penalty. Basically betting on your own team gets you a lifetime suspension, but actually cheating to win games only gets you a one year suspension.

I don't know how you don't suspend both for life.

Those draft pick penalties are no joke. The suspensions are pretty much what I expected. Lifetime was too long. Especially since I suspect other teams may have done this. Missing a whole season is pretty severe and doesn’t lock you into a crazy precedent.

RobDibblesGhost · « **Reply #207 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:16:15 pm »

Quote from: bluestreak on January 13, 2020, 02:13:53 pm

Those draft pick penalties are no joke. The suspensions are pretty much what I expected. Lifetime was too long. Especially since I suspect other teams may have done this. Missing a whole season is pretty severe and doesn’t lock you into a crazy precedent.

The loss of draft picks will set the organization back for a while. That's gonna hurt.

bluestreak · « **Reply #208 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:17:47 pm »

You also need room to punish Alex Cora. I imagine his suspension will be longer than both of these guys.

imref · « **Reply #209 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:19:25 pm »

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/houston-astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-suspended-1-year

Quote

Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have been suspended for one year after an MLB investigation found the team used technology to cheat during its World Series-winning 2017 season, it was announced Monday.

Additionally, MLB will fine the Astros $5 million and take away their first- and second-round draft picks in the 2020 and 2021 drafts.

MLB said in its statement that if Luhnow or Hinch "engage in any future material violations" of MLB rules, they will be placed on the league's permanently ineligible list.

No players were disciplined by MLB in the Astros' investigation. While Mets manager Carlos Beltran was part of it, he was a player at the time and thus was not suspended.

Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora is coming and is going to be harsh, sources tell ESPN.

Cora is identified throughout MLB's report as ringleader with Beltran. Commissioner Rob Manfred said that discipline for Cora will be announced at the completion of its investigation into the Red Sox's alleged use of the video replay room to steal signs during the 2018 season.

Gotta be a lifetime ban for Cora, no?

aBaltoNat · « **Reply #210 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:20:11 pm »

So Beltran was a ring leader with Cora but got nothing because he was a player....and now he manages the Mets.

bluestreak · « **Reply #211 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:25:18 pm »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on January 13, 2020, 02:13:20 pm

it's a nothing penalty- what owner wouldn't jump at trading a fine equivalent to a middle reliever's salary and a 1 year suspension for a coach and GM (how is that one even enforced) in exchange for a ring?

In hindsight, sure. You think an organization is going to accept those draft pick penalties and losing their general manager and field manager for a year doing something that might increase your chances of winning by a small amount.

I would have liked to see international bonus money cut as well, but those draft pick penalties are severe. Imagine what the Nats farm system looks like without Crowe, Cate, Deanburg and Romero.

bluestreak · « **Reply #212 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:26:19 pm »

Quote from: aBaltoNat on January 13, 2020, 02:20:11 pm

So Beltran was a ring leader with Cora but got nothing because he was a player....and now he manages the Mets.

Looks like it.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #213 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:28:12 pm »

Quote from: imref on January 13, 2020, 02:19:25 pm

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/houston-astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-suspended-1-year

Gotta be a lifetime ban for Cora, no?

if it is, it's gonna be awkward when they have to do the same for Hinch and Ludlow for actions after he left

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #214 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:29:35 pm »

Quote from: bluestreak on January 13, 2020, 02:25:18 pm

In hindsight, sure. You think an organization is going to accept those draft pick penalties and losing their general manager and field manager for a year doing something that might increase your chances of winning by a small amount.

I would have liked to see international bonus money cut as well, but those draft pick penalties are severe. Imagine what the Nats farm system looks like without Crowe, Cate, Deanburg and Romero.

was it by a small amount? and what are the hit rates for draft picks in the late 20s?

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #215 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:30:41 pm »

Quote from: aBaltoNat on January 13, 2020, 02:20:11 pm

So Beltran was a ring leader with Cora but got nothing because he was a player....and now he manages the Mets.

Quote from: bluestreak on January 13, 2020, 02:26:19 pm

Looks like it.

the CBA is a nag. Kind of odd to blame players unless they are paying the watchers salary and installing the equipment themselves - clearly the organization endorsed it

bluestreak · « **Reply #216 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:37:26 pm »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on January 13, 2020, 02:29:35 pm

was it by a small amount? and what are the hit rates for draft picks in the late 20s?

The Astros were very good in 2017. And they almost lost in the World Series even with the cheating. How smart does this look if they are the World Series runner-up?

I can’t speak to what the Astros picks are, but the Nats have picked in that general area and the first two picks from 2017 and 2018 make up a big chunk of farm pitching depth.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #217 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:49:29 pm »

Quote from: bluestreak on January 13, 2020, 02:37:26 pm

The Astros were very good in 2017. And they almost lost in the World Series even with the cheating. How smart does this look if they are the World Series runner-up?

At the same time, it may have been the difference in a close series

Five Banners · « **Reply #218 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:51:23 pm »

Quote from: imref on January 13, 2020, 02:10:05 pm

it actually seems kind of a light penalty. Basically betting on your own team gets you a lifetime suspension, but actually cheating to win games only gets you a one year suspension.

I don't know how you don't suspend both for life.

Hardly a disincentive, especially for repeat offenders. Also, don't talk about major consequences dan then deliver this. Chalk up another Manfred special (wonder if he's going to destroy the tapes/files).

Five Banners · « **Reply #219 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:55:14 pm »

Quote from: bluestreak on January 13, 2020, 02:13:53 pm

Those draft pick penalties are no joke.

Is the pool amount tied to that? If not, I can see some gamesmanship there

UMDNats · « **Reply #220 on:** January 13, 2020, 02:57:08 pm »

Quote from: imref on January 13, 2020, 02:10:05 pm

it actually seems kind of a light penalty. Basically betting on your own team gets you a lifetime suspension, but actually cheating to win games only gets you a one year suspension.

I don't know how you don't suspend both for life.

This is MLB saying that cheating is fine with almost 0 reprecussions. Cora will probably get a 1 or 2 year suspension too for cheating on TWO teams. Astros laughing their asses off at MLB for this.

Five Banners · « **Reply #221 on:** January 13, 2020, 03:00:28 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on January 13, 2020, 02:57:08 pm

This is MLB saying that cheating is fine with almost 0 reprecussions. Cora will probably get a 1 or 2 year suspension too for cheating on TWO teams.

And the Astros brass will raise the pennant act like they're underdogs and rally around this rather than being affected one iota, one would think. I do think the lineup will hear plenty of whistles and trash can banging along with boos

bluestreak · « **Reply #222 on:** January 13, 2020, 03:02:04 pm »

Quote from: Five Banners on January 13, 2020, 02:55:14 pm

Is the pool amount tied to that? If not, I can see some gamesmanship there

Yes

vicki4471 · « **Reply #223 on:** January 13, 2020, 03:06:16 pm »

Do you think this will have significant ramifications in other ways.. Like the ability to assign quality free agents in the future? How important is it to aplayer to sign with an organization that does not just win... but wins legitimately. I personally would be embarrassed to play for a team linked to all of this stuff...

UMDNats · « **Reply #224 on:** January 13, 2020, 03:07:42 pm »

Quote from: vicki4471 on January 13, 2020, 03:06:16 pm

Do you think this will have significant ramifications in other ways.. Like the ability to assign quality free agents in the future? How important is it to aplayer to sign with an organization that does not just win... but wins legitimately. I personally would be embarrassed to play for a team linked to all of this stuff...

if the astros have the best offer, players will take it