Author Topic: Astros stealing signs  (Read 3228 times)

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Offline nfotiu

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #150: November 22, 2019, 11:14:57 PM »
I've watched the first inning of game 1 and 2 a few times over now.  It's almost like for game 2, they knew fox's mic's were picking up the whistles.  They are a lot fainter, but a few times after I can pick them up.   

The pitch 19 in game 1 that was the high fastball that gave them the 2-0 lead had the exact same whistle as the high fastball in pitch 13 in game 2 that ended up higher than high and you could see Brantley wanting to go for it and laying off.

The change up Bregman got in game 1, inning 1 to strike him out has a very distinctive whistle.  He knew that one was coming, but still swung and missed.   It's fainter in game 2, but you can hear the same whistle pattern on the change up Bregman hits out of the park in the first inning of game 2. 

Watching those 4 pitches over and over, I have no doubt they knew high fastballs were coming and that the change up was coming, and that accounted for all 4 RBIs in the first 2 innings of those games.   

If they were using cameras and technologies to be able to relay that detail of what pitch was coming, and I really don't know how else they could be doing it, that's a significant step up on any cheating that has happened before in pro sports.



Offline Five Banners

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #151: November 23, 2019, 01:53:02 AM »
I've watched the first inning of game 1 and 2 a few times over now.  It's almost like for game 2, they knew fox's mic's were picking up the whistles.  They are a lot fainter, but a few times after I can pick them up.   

The pitch 19 in game 1 that was the high fastball that gave them the 2-0 lead had the exact same whistle as the high fastball in pitch 13 in game 2 that ended up higher than high and you could see Brantley wanting to go for it and laying off.

The change up Bregman got in game 1, inning 1 to strike him out has a very distinctive whistle.  He knew that one was coming, but still swung and missed.   It's fainter in game 2, but you can hear the same whistle pattern on the change up Bregman hits out of the park in the first inning of game 2. 

Watching those 4 pitches over and over, I have no doubt they knew high fastballs were coming and that the change up was coming, and that accounted for all 4 RBIs in the first 2 innings of those games.   

If they were using cameras and technologies to be able to relay that detail of what pitch was coming, and I really don't know how else they could be doing it, that's a significant step up on any cheating that has happened before in pro sports.

Watching the last few innings of game 7, and Hinch is wearing the "TAKE IT BACK" hoodie shirt. Perhaps it may apply to 2017

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #152: November 23, 2019, 02:22:50 AM »
I've watched the first inning of game 1 and 2 a few times over now.  It's almost like for game 2, they knew fox's mic's were picking up the whistles.  They are a lot fainter, but a few times after I can pick them up.   

The pitch 19 in game 1 that was the high fastball that gave them the 2-0 lead had the exact same whistle as the high fastball in pitch 13 in game 2 that ended up higher than high and you could see Brantley wanting to go for it and laying off.

The change up Bregman got in game 1, inning 1 to strike him out has a very distinctive whistle.  He knew that one was coming, but still swung and missed.   It's fainter in game 2, but you can hear the same whistle pattern on the change up Bregman hits out of the park in the first inning of game 2. 

Watching those 4 pitches over and over, I have no doubt they knew high fastballs were coming and that the change up was coming, and that accounted for all 4 RBIs in the first 2 innings of those games.   

If they were using cameras and technologies to be able to relay that detail of what pitch was coming, and I really don't know how else they could be doing it, that's a significant step up on any cheating that has happened before in pro sports.

Nice long whistle on Corbin 0-1 94mph fastball to Bregman in 7th, next pitch was the stuttered whistle on an 85mph off-speeder (both fouled off), then a quieter steady whistle on a 95mph pitch Bregman grounded out. I wasn't even watching to spot anything, but it really stood out.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #153: November 23, 2019, 07:44:02 AM »
In the end if they were just stealing signals through normal means by watching pitchers tip pitches, that is not illegal, right? We saw Strasburg make an adjustment in game 6.  if they cannot prove the Astros were using cameras or other serupticious methods then I don't see how they can be punished.  Nothing illegal about banging on trash cans or whistling.  If it's just based on film study and guys watching for things during games that is all part of baseball. 


Offline hohoho

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #155: November 23, 2019, 10:59:51 AM »
In the end if they were just stealing signals through normal means by watching pitchers tip pitches, that is not illegal, right? We saw Strasburg make an adjustment in game 6.  if they cannot prove the Astros were using cameras or other serupticious methods then I don't see how they can be punished.  Nothing illegal about banging on trash cans or whistling.  If it's just based on film study and guys watching for things during games that is all part of baseball.
The only problems with those lame excuses are (1) there is plenty of evidence of use of cameras, including knowledge of several ex-players and (2) you simply can't do it that quickly without technology.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/astros-sign-stealing-scandal-what-to-know-about-cheating-allegations-and-mlbs-investigation/

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #156: November 23, 2019, 11:11:37 AM »
I think MLB should threaten a post-season ban or something else that affects the owner directly unless the Astros turn over email and text records.

Otherwise, the Astros will probably try to claim they cleaned it up after 2017 and admit to whatever the minimum they think MLB can prove.

Online bluestreak

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #157: November 23, 2019, 11:17:37 AM »
In the end if they were just stealing signals through normal means by watching pitchers tip pitches, that is not illegal, right? We saw Strasburg make an adjustment in game 6.  if they cannot prove the Astros were using cameras or other serupticious methods then I don't see how they can be punished.  Nothing illegal about banging on trash cans or whistling.  If it's just based on film study and guys watching for things during games that is all part of baseball.

There’s no way to steal a sign legally, relay it to a whistler or banger who then signals the batter in time for it to make a difference without electronic help.  Especially with no one on base. The signals came much too quickly after the sign was put down.

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #158: November 23, 2019, 11:32:23 AM »
Agree.  But are the Astros the only team doing this ?  Or because the team has advanced through the MLB playoffs, are they the only team that has been caught ?  And if like steriods, stealing signs is wide spread, how dow MLB address the problem ?

I think MLB should threaten a post-season ban or something else that affects the owner directly unless the Astros turn over email and text records.

Otherwise, the Astros will probably try to claim they cleaned it up after 2017 and admit to whatever the minimum they think MLB can prove.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #159: November 23, 2019, 12:13:02 PM »
Agree.  But are the Astros the only team doing this ?  Or because the team has advanced through the MLB playoffs, are they the only team that has been caught ?  And if like steriods, stealing signs is wide spread, how dow MLB address the problem ?

I don’t know about other teams but I don’t think Doolittle posts the tweets he did if the nationals were doing it. 

I’m pretty convinced the astros has a whistle for a high fastball. No way are they getting that from some kind of pitcher tell.

Offline vicki4471

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #160: November 23, 2019, 05:27:21 PM »
Why did it take players with such damning evidence 2 years to come forward?

Online bluestreak

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #161: November 23, 2019, 05:38:14 PM »
Why did it take players with such damning evidence 2 years to come forward?

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Offline DCFan

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #162: November 23, 2019, 09:36:51 PM »
Why did it take players with such damning evidence 2 years to come forward?

A former Astros player just spilled the beans. Before that it was just speculation. Now they have a whistleblower. :crackup:

Offline hohoho

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #163: November 23, 2019, 11:08:42 PM »
Why did it take players with such damning evidence 2 years to come forward?
You are kidding, right?

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #164: November 24, 2019, 07:31:39 AM »
I don’t know about other teams but I don’t think Doolittle posts the tweets he did if the nationals were doing it. 

I’m pretty convinced the astros has a whistle for a high fastball. No way are they getting that from some kind of pitcher tell.

More commonly I think you get pitch height tells from catchers. For example, glove/body positioning are obvious but even butt height can give it away — setting up a little lower for offspeed in the dirt to anticipate potentially blocking a pitch or a little higher for high heat.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #165: November 24, 2019, 10:44:10 AM »
MLB isn't gonna do crap to the Astros except for banning some turd lower level guys.

Offline RyanZimsKazoo

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #166: November 24, 2019, 10:47:05 AM »
MLB isn't gonna do crap to the Astros except for banning some turd lower level guys.
The story has gotten too much attention and exposure.

They risk damaging the sport if they dont come down hard on this. Everyone has a hate boner for the Astros because of the sleazy just absolute disgusting way they have gone about building this team. They will get hit hard and frankly should  have their 2017 title vacated from them if it was shown they were cheating.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #167: November 24, 2019, 11:44:19 AM »
MLB isn't gonna do crap to the Astros except for banning some turd lower level guys.

Ban a lower guy and they start happily talking about what happened once the incentive to stay quiet is removed

Offline The Chief

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #168: November 24, 2019, 01:14:19 PM »
Ban a lower guy and they start happily talking about what happened once the incentive to stay quiet is removed

I must be having a slow day, can you explain what you mean by this?

Offline RyanZimsKazoo

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #169: November 24, 2019, 01:20:58 PM »
I must be having a slow day, can you explain what you mean by this?

Trickle up snitching.

Get the guy who can rat out the kingpin. RICO style.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #170: November 24, 2019, 01:32:51 PM »
Oh I see what he was saying now.  Thanks.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #171: November 24, 2019, 02:30:41 PM »
The story has gotten too much attention and exposure.

They risk damaging the sport if they dont come down hard on this. Everyone has a hate boner for the Astros because of the sleazy just absolute disgusting way they have gone about building this team. They will get hit hard and frankly should  have their 2017 title vacated from them if it was shown they were cheating.
Other than signing Ozuna what is sleazy and disgusting about how they built their team?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #172: November 24, 2019, 02:37:52 PM »
Other than signing Ozuna what is sleazy and disgusting about how they built their team?
Osuna and not Ozuna.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #173: November 24, 2019, 03:33:13 PM »
Osuna and not Ozuna.

This, and they didn't sign him - they traded for him.   He wasn't there in 2017, though.

That year, they did have Cameron Maybin (PED suspension in his past, DUI later) and had another guy suspended in the middle of the season for PEDs, and their awesome "so freaking glad we got Osuna" dude was in the front office the entire time, stinking up the whole area with the smell of Wall Street Douchebag.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #174: November 24, 2019, 03:36:40 PM »
This, and they didn't sign him - they traded for him.   He wasn't there in 2017, though.

That year, they did have Cameron Maybin (PED suspension in his past, DUI later) and had another guy suspended in the middle of the season for PEDs, and their awesome "so freaking glad we got Osuna" dude was in the front office the entire time, stinking up the whole area with the smell of Wall Street Douchebag.
Sounds like a stretch. Other teams have guys who have been suspended for PEDs.  They have done a great job drafting and developing every day players. And then trading for pitchers to take them over the top. I don’t see what the assistant GM remarks had to do with building the team.

If they can prove the Astros cheated throw the book at them.