Author Topic: Astros stealing signs - But Dusty to the Rescue  (Read 12382 times)

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Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #350: January 14, 2020, 03:43:27 PM »
Jayson Werth is probably writing the algorithms for him.

A decade and a half of sitting on the bench is pretty good training for figuring out how to steal signs.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #351: January 14, 2020, 03:46:04 PM »
I finally got around to reading the actual report (https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf).   The main lesson here is that Cora is going to get punished back to the Stone Age.

Hinch - who didn't do anything significant to stop the conduct but didn't endorse it directly - got a year.  So did Luhnow, who didn't even know about the banging scheme and apparently only knew tangentially about the video feed to the replay room version of the conduct. 

By contrast, Cora was the one who arranged to have the monitor installed in the tunnel by the dugout to operate the banging scheme.   He also was the one who started calling the replay room to get the other team's signs.    Then, after the Commissioner warned teams about the conduct based on the Red Sox actions, he went to the Red Sox and did it again.  Meanwhile, the Astros stopped the banging scheme and then the replay room thing shortly after he left.   

Where does that leave him?  A three-year ban?  Five?  Hinch and Luhnow were at best accessories to a violation of which he was one of the leaders. 

Online skippy1999

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #352: January 14, 2020, 03:49:40 PM »
it's so funny to me that alex cora is this mastermind cheater. guy was a totally nondescript/meh player for 14 years. and yet here he is, ruining baseball!

I mean, you don't have to be the best athlete to be super-smart about the game. Bill Belichick played d-whatever football because he was never going to have the God given ability to play at an elite level but he sure knows football.  When Cora was on the Sox so many players referred to how smart he was and how much helped a lot of them in a bunch of little ways, just didn't realize some of those ways were probably nefarious :lol:

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #353: January 14, 2020, 04:06:06 PM »
They lost two games at home and 2 games on road. Darvish got shelled in game 3. I think he gave up 4 runs in second.

I don’t think we can assume that because the cheating was detected in Houston that it was limited to Houston.

Or that it was limited to home games

Online bluestreak

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #354: January 14, 2020, 04:08:14 PM »
Or that it was limited to home games

Sorry, I meant Minute Maid Park. I meant Houston the location and not Houston the team.

Offline expos1994

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #355: January 14, 2020, 04:16:14 PM »
Were they cheating in the 2019 World Series?
You wouldn't think considering they hit better in DC and they lost all 4 games in Houston.

Maybe the trash can banger was sick and couldn't perform his duties...

We all know they figured out Strasburg was tipping his pitches... but that had nothing to do with monitors and trash cans.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #356: January 14, 2020, 04:17:23 PM »

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #357: January 14, 2020, 04:37:18 PM »
I have a hard time believing they just stopped cheating in 2017.  My guess would be they found a different way.  They're the Patriots of MLB.  They get caught after the fact and have already moved on to the next method of cheating.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #358: January 14, 2020, 05:07:32 PM »
Where does that leave him?  A three-year ban?  Five?  Hinch and Luhnow were at best accessories to a violation of which he was one of the leaders. 
Really should be lifetime ban, with the right to file for reinstatement after 2 or 3 years. What mitigating factors are there?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #359: January 14, 2020, 05:09:55 PM »
When Cora was on the Sox so many players referred to how smart he was and how much helped a lot of them in a bunch of little ways, just didn't realize some of those ways were probably nefarious :lol:
There are articles in '06 saying this guy will be a great manager when he retires.  Certainly by '07.  They were also saying that about Kevin Cash, who was on the Sox I think around then or perhaps slightly later.  Definitely when Francona was there for both.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #360: January 14, 2020, 05:10:45 PM »
Really should be lifetime ban, with the right to file for reinstatement after 2 or 3 years. What mitigating factors are there?

 That they weren’t previously warned about severe consequences for any repeat violations,  which made it imperative for them to act proactively and not pull a Sergeant Schultz.

Oh wait...

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #361: January 14, 2020, 05:11:07 PM »
Really should be lifetime ban, with the right to file for reinstatement after 2 or 3 years. What mitigating factors are there?

That he was a bench coach who traditionally have very little power and that the manager and GM (i.e. his bosses at least knew - and probably more, unless you think the bench coach has the power to hire a lackey to watch a tv). But it’s baseball, so the old white guys getting a relative pass is to be expected

Online skippy1999

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #362: January 14, 2020, 05:21:47 PM »
That he was a bench coach who traditionally have very little power and that the manager and GM (i.e. his bosses at least knew - and probably more, unless you think the bench coach has the power to hire a lackey to watch a tv). But it’s baseball, so the old white guys getting a relative pass is to be expected

I mean, Hinch and Luhnow were suspended for the entire season and then subsequently fired, I really don't think that's close to a relative pass.  I will be curious about Cora, maybe his will be harsher because he'll have done it with two different teams?  also Hinch is 45, not sure that counts as "OWG" yet. 

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #363: January 14, 2020, 05:30:16 PM »
I mean, Hinch and Luhnow were suspended for the entire season and then subsequently fired, I really don't think that's close to a relative pass.  I will be curious about Cora, maybe his will be harsher because he'll have done it with two different teams?  also Hinch is 45, not sure that counts as "OWG" yet. 
Agreed.  They had contracts they thought guaranteed them million+ salaries for a few years and prospects to keep that going for a while.   Potentially losing all that is going to be a huge hit to them personally.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #364: January 14, 2020, 06:12:39 PM »
I mean, Hinch and Luhnow were suspended for the entire season and then subsequently fired, I really don't think that's close to a relative pass.  I will be curious about Cora, maybe his will be harsher because he'll have done it with two different teams?  also Hinch is 45, not sure that counts as "OWG" yet. 

The bench coach is getting scape goated :lmao: if Cora gets what JCA was positing, then Hinch certainly got the OWG treatment

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #365: January 14, 2020, 07:05:38 PM »
The bench coach is getting scape goated :lmao: if Cora gets what JCA was positing, then Hinch certainly got the OWG treatment

It doesn't quite sound like it's scapegoating when he was the person who had the video monitor installed in the tunnel for the trash can scheme.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #366: January 14, 2020, 07:09:33 PM »
It doesn't quite sound like it's scapegoating when he was the person who had the video monitor installed in the tunnel for the trash can scheme.

Yes, the bench coach with the power to make things happen

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #367: January 14, 2020, 07:36:32 PM »
Cora out.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #368: January 14, 2020, 07:39:47 PM »
Mutually parted ways sounds like a settlement for part of his contract.  Probably best for all parties. 

Offline GNatsNoMore

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #369: January 14, 2020, 08:02:04 PM »
Cora out.

They wondered out loud on MLB Network if Beltran is next. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #370: January 14, 2020, 08:03:04 PM »
Yes, the bench coach with the power to make things happen

Sarcasm doesn't suit you well when you have no facts behind it.  That statement went into the report after dozens of witness interviews. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #371: January 14, 2020, 08:37:16 PM »
Cora also has the reported red Sox latest sign stealing, plus the Sox are 2 time offenders.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #372: January 14, 2020, 08:41:47 PM »
Sarcasm doesn't suit you well when you have no facts behind it.  That statement went into the report after dozens of witness interviews. 

He’s the freaking bench coach- he’s right above the bullpen catcher on the org chart. For him to get a worse punishment than his bosses is absurd

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #373: January 14, 2020, 08:44:32 PM »
He’s the freaking bench coach- he’s right above the bullpen catcher on the org chart. For him to get a worse punishment than his bosses is absurd
he is getting hit not just for the Astros but also the Red Sox. That's why it will be worse than Hinch.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Astros stealing signs
« Reply #374: January 14, 2020, 08:46:08 PM »
he is getting hit not just for the Astros but also the Red Sox. That's why it will be worse than Hinch.

Which makes some sense, except there is evidence that the Astros were doing it this post season