Author Topic: What to trade?  (Read 70371 times)

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Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #600 on: July 17, 2018, 07:32:18 am »
I don't know if they can overcome Martinez but the Nats still have by far the most talented team in the division and I don't expect Philadelphia or Atlanta to continue to play at a .558 pace.
Rizzo has been known to make panic moves in the past and I expect him to once again overpay and make a big move very soon. I wouldn't be surprised to see either Ramos or Realmuto and a decent pitcher or two added.
I don't think this team fears Martinez and the appearance of a team wide lack of effort and the constant mental errors shows that.

I'm sorry butt when has Rizzo ever made a panic move? Every season we get some solid, non flashy BP pitchers but the most we ever paid for them are reclamation relievers. All the other big trades have been in the offseason and involved getting guys with multiple years of control.

Online Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #601 on: July 17, 2018, 07:50:20 am »
I'm sorry butt when has Rizzo ever made a panic move? Every season we get some solid, non flashy BP pitchers but the most we ever paid for them are reclamation relievers. All the other big trades have been in the offseason and involved getting guys with multiple years of control.
Papelbon was a panic move.

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #602 on: July 17, 2018, 08:00:31 am »
Papelbon was a panic move.

Just because a move was bad doesn't make it a panic move. We needed help in the back end of our BP and Papeldouche was having a good season in Philly. All we paid for him a Pivetta who was a JAG at the time. In hindsight we overpaid considering Pivetta has developed in a great starter but thems the breaks.

Online Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #603 on: July 17, 2018, 08:04:39 am »
Just because a move was bad doesn't make it a panic move. We needed help in the back end of our BP and Papeldouche was having a good season in Philly. All we paid for him a Pivetta who was a JAG at the time. In hindsight we overpaid considering Pivetta has developed in a great starter but thems the breaks.
It was a panic move. Everyone in baseball knew what a douche he was, but Rizzo didn't want to pay a king's ransom to fix the pen.

Offline RichMinSC

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #604 on: July 17, 2018, 08:16:38 am »
Just because a move was bad doesn't make it a panic move. We needed help in the back end of our BP and Papeldouche was having a good season in Philly. All we paid for him a Pivetta who was a JAG at the time. In hindsight we overpaid considering Pivetta has developed in a great starter but thems the breaks.

Pivwtta was a top 10 prospect   anyway you slice it papelbon was a panic move

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #605 on: July 17, 2018, 08:30:48 am »
It was a panic move. Everyone in baseball knew what a douche he was, but Rizzo didn't want to pay a king's ransom to fix the pen.
Except him not wanting to overpay for help is what makes it not a panic move. Shopping around and getting the best value you can isn't panicking.

Pap smear had a 1.59 Era and a 3.01 FIP. His HR9 was exactly in line with his career average. His K rate had rebounded to 9.1 after being around ~8.5 the previous 2 seasons and his BB9 was down from his career average. For all the world he seemed to be a solid, if unspectacular, closer with locker room issues.

Bad move? Yes.
Panic move? Hell no.

Offline Ray D

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #606 on: July 17, 2018, 08:42:39 am »
I'm not sure I would want Fedde over Roark at this point. I might want to roll the dice on fat boy and hope we get a bounce.

Looked to me like he lost a few pounds, last start.  Maybe I imagined it but I thought he looked more like a real athlete. Was it the shave?  Whatever, didn't help his pitching.

Online Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #607 on: July 17, 2018, 08:46:43 am »
Looked to me like he lost a few pounds, last start.  Maybe I imagined it but I thought he looked more like a real athlete. Was it the shave?  Whatever, didn't help his pitching.

What do you mean? He only gave up 4 runs. He should keep removing hair. Ears, nose, chest, back, toes .... all of it.

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #608 on: July 17, 2018, 08:47:41 am »
Pivwtta was a top 10 prospect   anyway you slice it papelbon was a panic move

I dont ever remember Pivetta ever cracking a top 10 list but I do know for a fact the he was about our 8th rank farm hand at the time. We had Giolito, Lopez, Ross, and had just drafted Fedde and Voth. AJ Cole was also showing signs of life in the minors as well. Pivetta wasn't a guy anyone on this site had even a tiny hope would become a National and to act like he was is disengenuous.

Offline RichMinSC

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #609 on: July 17, 2018, 09:02:23 am »
I dont ever remember Pivetta ever cracking a top 10 list but I do know for a fact the he was about our 8th rank farm hand at the time. We had Giolito, Lopez, Ross, and had just drafted Fedde and Voth. AJ Cole was also showing signs of life in the minors as well. Pivetta wasn't a guy anyone on this site had even a tiny hope would become a National and to act like he was is disengenuous.


BA #10 in 2014 him and Gilotto were supposed to be stalwart parts of the future rotation

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #610 on: July 17, 2018, 09:13:39 am »

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #611 on: July 17, 2018, 09:21:30 am »
But still he wasn't when we actually traded him in 2015.

Offline hotshot

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #612 on: July 17, 2018, 10:10:27 am »
It was a panic move. Everyone in baseball knew what a douche he was, but Rizzo didn't want to pay a king's ransom to fix the pen.

Agree it was a panic move. Not only a douche but even a casual observer of the Phillies knew he was also not effective anymore. At least, not to the point you could count on him.

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #613 on: July 17, 2018, 10:28:17 am »
I dont want to take this anymore off topic so I'm done talking about Papeldouche especially because I think the argument hints on the definition of what you'd consider a panic move rather then Paps being good or not.

That being said this walk down memory lane has help to depress me after remembering a time when we actually had pitching depth in the minors. It's amazing that we couldn't turn ONE of those young guys into a solid starter.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #614 on: July 17, 2018, 10:41:13 am »
Even if you agree that the Papelbon trade was a panic move, It's not like Rizzo has a long history of doing so.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #615 on: July 17, 2018, 10:41:44 am »
The Papelbon trade was the exception to the rule with Rizzo. That was out of character for him.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #616 on: July 17, 2018, 10:44:53 am »
The Papelbon trade was the exception to the rule with Rizzo. That was out of character for him.

Yeah. Still waiting for someone to post the history...

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #617 on: July 17, 2018, 10:53:49 am »
Felt like a Lerner/Boras Express. Like Weiters.

Yeah. Still waiting for someone to post the history...

Online Slateman

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #618 on: July 17, 2018, 10:56:31 am »
Felt like a Lerner/Boras Express. Like Weiters.

Yea, I feel like there are more free agent wiffs than panic trades. Soriano, Wieters, Haren, ect.

Offline RichMinSC

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #619 on: July 17, 2018, 11:20:26 am »
I dont ever remember Pivetta ever cracking a top 10 list but I do know for a fact the he was about our 8th rank farm hand at the time. We had Giolito, Lopez, Ross, and had just drafted Fedde and Voth. AJ Cole was also showing signs of life in the minors as well. Pivetta wasn't a guy anyone on this site had even a tiny hope would become a National and to act like he was is disengenuous.

do you argue just for the sake of arguing

Ranked Washington Nationals #10 prospect after the 2014 season
A Canadian Junior National Team star in 2009 and 2010, Pivetta was fairly raw when he signed with the Nationals for $364,300 in 2013, but he made good progress in 2014 at low Class A Hagerstown. His velocity remained consistent all season, and he markedly improved his conditioning. Pivetta has a physical frame and a long, loose arm action that produces easy velocity. His fastball sits at 92-94 mph and bumps 96. It is effective when he repeats his delivery and pitches down in the zone with good angle, but he gets into trouble when he leaves the ball up. Likewise, the quality of his breaking ball depends upon whether he's staying over his lower half and controlling his delivery. At its best, his curveball is an above-average pitch with sharp 11-to-5 break and power, but at times he'll overthrow it. He also is developing feel for his changeup, which has good sinking action when he throws it with conviction--but he must learn to do so more consistently. Pivetta's mechanics and command still need work, but he has upside as a potential mid-rotation starter if he can continue to progress. He figures to spend 2015 at high Class A Potomac.    Baseball  America

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #620 on: July 17, 2018, 11:21:43 am »
Yea, I feel like there are more free agent wiffs than panic trades. Soriano, Wieters, Haren, ect.
Plus by all accounts most of those FA whiffs were the Lerners getting fleeced by Boras. Though to be fair if you dont count those against Rizzo you really cant give him credit for Max

Offline Smithian

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #621 on: July 17, 2018, 11:36:21 am »
Just because a move was bad doesn't make it a panic move. We needed help in the back end of our BP and Papeldouche was having a good season in Philly. All we paid for him a Pivetta who was a JAG at the time. In hindsight we overpaid considering Pivetta has developed in a great starter but thems the breaks.
Pivetta had a 6+ ERA last year and is hovering around 4.5 this year.

He was a low level prospect who has developed into a back of the rotation starter.

Offline RichMinSC

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #622 on: July 17, 2018, 11:49:10 am »
Pivetta had a 6+ ERA last year and is hovering around 4.5 this year.

He was a low level prospect who has developed into a back of the rotation starter.

I have no idea what you call low level

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #623 on: July 17, 2018, 12:15:37 pm »
do you argue just for the sake of arguing

Ranked Washington Nationals #10 prospect after the 2014 season
A Canadian Junior National Team star in 2009 and 2010, Pivetta was fairly raw when he signed with the Nationals for $364,300 in 2013, but he made good progress in 2014 at low Class A Hagerstown. His velocity remained consistent all season, and he markedly improved his conditioning. Pivetta has a physical frame and a long, loose arm action that produces easy velocity. His fastball sits at 92-94 mph and bumps 96. It is effective when he repeats his delivery and pitches down in the zone with good angle, but he gets into trouble when he leaves the ball up. Likewise, the quality of his breaking ball depends upon whether he's staying over his lower half and controlling his delivery. At its best, his curveball is an above-average pitch with sharp 11-to-5 break and power, but at times he'll overthrow it. He also is developing feel for his changeup, which has good sinking action when he throws it with conviction--but he must learn to do so more consistently. Pivetta's mechanics and command still need work, but he has upside as a potential mid-rotation starter if he can continue to progress. He figures to spend 2015 at high Class A Potomac.    Baseball  America
#10 in the Nats system doesn't make him all that valuable going into the season. I don't think we've ever placed 5 guys in anyone's top 100 for all systems. 

Offline RichMinSC

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Re: What to trade for?
« Reply #624 on: July 17, 2018, 12:23:06 pm »
#10 in the Nats system doesn't make him all that valuable going into the season. I don't think we've ever placed 5 guys in anyone's top 100 for all systems.

$2 million  signing bonus says he was a decent prospect