Author Topic: What to trade? (Read 70008 times)

ZimW1N · « **Reply #650 on:** July 17, 2018, 03:02:51 pm »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 02:49:30 pm

mR word twister that is NOT what I said YOU SAID Roark is much better

Cause... he is.

As far as word twisting let me replay that for you: I said Roark was better. You said it was an absurd statement and cited his ERA, Whip, Wins, and team wins as reasons that statement was absurd. Exact how is that twisting your words? That was literally the arguement you presented

ZimW1N · « **Reply #651 on:** July 17, 2018, 03:07:39 pm »

Quote from: CoryTheFormerExposFan on July 17, 2018, 02:27:26 pm

I'd be happy to get Gibson. Much more so than Eovaldi. And you're right that the reports typically aren't who we actually get. Gibson is the level of acquisition I expect to land. I think we prioritize a mid-rotation starter first, then if we get that done, maybe try to acquire Ramos or another catcher.

I think we'll end up with Gibson and Cervelli. I think having them both on the team in 2019 as bridge options would appeal to Rizzo more than someone who would be gone next season. We should be able to get both without trading Robles or Kieboom.

RichMinSC · « **Reply #652 on:** July 17, 2018, 03:08:52 pm »

Quote from: ZimW1N on July 17, 2018, 03:02:51 pm

Cause... he is.

As far as word twisting let me replay that for you: I said Roark was better. You said it was an absurd statement and cited his ERA, Whip, Wins, and team wins as reasons that statement was absurd. Exact how is that twisting your words? That was literally the arguement you presented

What is absurd is you said he is better and he is not they are basically equal . I NEVER SAID PIVETTA is better

ZimW1N · « **Reply #653 on:** July 17, 2018, 03:49:51 pm »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 03:08:52 pm

What is absurd is you said he is better and he is not they are basically equal . I NEVER SAID PIVETTA is better

Look I dont want to send this thread off the rails any farther and I doubt we are going to come to a middle ground here. If I misunderstood the point you were trying to make than that's my bad but IMO the statement:

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 01:51:45 pm

so I understand: a contributing back of the rotation starter is low level at least according the brain surgeons here. What the hell is Roark, Cole, Voth and Fedde? let's not forget the original statement was Rizzo got Papelbon for practically nothing

To me reads that if Pivetta is low level what are these guys since Pivetta is better. I than disputed that statement with a slightly hyperbolic response which I still believe to be true. In the MLB sample size matters and two months of production from Pivetta doesn't mean he will continue that trend post ASB.

You can PM if you want to keep arguing over this but I think this is heading into topic spitting territory if we keep spamming Pivetta vs Roark posts in a topic that is supposed to be about trade candidates.

Slateman · « **Reply #654 on:** July 17, 2018, 07:27:01 pm »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 12:49:54 pm

Bubba Starling had a 7.5 million signing bonus. No one in baseball considers him a top prospect. A signing bonus means jack crap.

tomterp · « **Reply #655 on:** July 17, 2018, 09:08:09 pm »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 12:23:06 pm

$2 million signing bonus says he was a decent prospect

Hello Rich. I'm confused over an apparent discrepancy. You posted this:

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 11:20:26 am

A Canadian Junior National Team star in 2009 and 2010, Pivetta was fairly raw when he signed with the Nationals for $364,300 in 2013, but he made good progress in 2014 at low Class A Hagerstown. Baseball America

How much did he sign for?

RichMinSC · « **Reply #656 on:** July 17, 2018, 11:58:04 pm »

Quote from: tomterp on July 17, 2018, 09:08:09 pm

Hello Rich. I'm confused over an apparent discrepancy. You posted this:

How much did he sign for?

his transaction history says $2M signing bonus

Smithian · « **Reply #657 on:** July 17, 2018, 11:59:04 pm »

Rich is trolling

RichMinSC · « **Reply #658 on:** July 18, 2018, 12:00:53 am »

Quote from: Smithian on July 17, 2018, 11:59:04 pm

Rich is trolling

GFY

tomterp · « **Reply #659 on:** July 18, 2018, 08:49:29 am »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 11:58:04 pm

his transaction history says $2M signing bonus

Upon further research I'm finding other accounts that reference the $346k number you first posted. Since it was apparently exactly slot that makes more sense.

Quote

The $346,300 figure noted is exactly on slot for a pitcher the Nationals described in their press release on this year's draft class as, "....one of the top junior college arms in the 2013 First-Year Player Draft."

https://www.federalbaseball.com/2013/6/20/4449530/washington-nationals-sign-2013-4th-round-pick-nicholas-pivetta

Slateman · « **Reply #660 on:** July 18, 2018, 08:52:12 am »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 17, 2018, 11:58:04 pm

his transaction history says $2M signing bonus

Who cares? A signing bonus does not make one a "top prospect"

Actually being scouted to have useful skills makes them a top prospect.

Pivetta was never a top prospect. Not here. Not in Philly. He was considered fringy, high ceiling, low floor prospect. Which is what he's turned out to be, so far.

RichMinSC · « **Reply #661 on:** July 18, 2018, 08:57:39 am »

Quote from: Slateman on July 18, 2018, 08:52:12 am

Who cares? A signing bonus does not make one a "top prospect"

Actually being scouted to have useful skills makes them a top prospect.

Pivetta was never a top prospect. Not here. Not in Philly. He was considered fringy, high ceiling, low floor prospect. Which is what he's turned out to be, so far.

#10 is a top 10 by definition certainly above the quote" Got papelbon for nothing"

Slateman · « **Reply #662 on:** July 18, 2018, 09:02:11 am »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 18, 2018, 08:57:39 am

#10 is a top 10 by definition certainly above the quote" Got papelbon for nothing"

Which top 10 list is he on?

RichMinSC · « **Reply #663 on:** July 18, 2018, 09:06:05 am »

Quote from: Slateman on July 18, 2018, 09:02:11 am

Which top 10 list is he on?

read the freaking thread #10 2014 washington Nationals baseball america.

Slateman · « **Reply #664 on:** July 18, 2018, 09:30:43 am »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 18, 2018, 09:06:05 am

read the freaking thread #10 2014 washington Nationals baseball america.

Too bad Pivetta was traded in 2015, when he wasn't in the Nationals top 10 prospects. On any list. Also he was top 10 ... before the the 2015 season started.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2015/10/28/lucas-giolito-trea-turner-top-baseball-americas-rankings-of-nationals-prospects/?utm_term=.c3d722f43666

So yea, the Nationals did not trade a "top prospect" for Papelbon.

Also, no one else had him near the top 10

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/1/10/7523759/washington-nationals-top-20-prospects-for-2015
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/evaluating-the-prospects-washington-nationals/
https://www.federalbaseball.com/2014/12/19/7422419/lucas-giolito-tops-baseball-america-washington-nationals-top-10-prospects
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/25030/2015-prospects-washington-nationals-top-10-prospects/

He's never made any of the Phillies top 10 either. Still not sure where you are getting this "top prospect" bullcrap.

Furthermore, the idea of being in a team's top 10 making you a top 10 prospect is, frankly, stupid. You can be in your team's top 10, and not be in the top 300 prospect list in all of baseball.

RichMinSC · « **Reply #665 on:** July 18, 2018, 09:34:52 am »

Quote from: Slateman on July 18, 2018, 09:30:43 am

Too bad Pivetta was traded in 2015, when he wasn't in the Nationals top 10 prospects. On any list. Also he was top 10 ... before the the 2015 season started.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2015/10/28/lucas-giolito-trea-turner-top-baseball-americas-rankings-of-nationals-prospects/?utm_term=.c3d722f43666

So yea, the Nationals did not trade a "top prospect" for Papelbon.

Also, no one else had him near the top 10

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/1/10/7523759/washington-nationals-top-20-prospects-for-2015
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/evaluating-the-prospects-washington-nationals/
https://www.federalbaseball.com/2014/12/19/7422419/lucas-giolito-tops-baseball-america-washington-nationals-top-10-prospects
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/25030/2015-prospects-washington-nationals-top-10-prospects/

He's never made any of the Phillies top 10 either. Still not sure where you are getting this "top prospect" bullcrap.

Furthermore, the idea of being in a team's top 10 making you a top 10 prospect is, frankly, stupid. You can be in your team's top 10, and not be in the top 300 prospect list in all of baseball.

I was warned this board is full of jerks -------- your reputation preceded you------------------ adm please remove my profile (this site won't let me do it) ------------ bye felicia

Slateman · « **Reply #666 on:** July 18, 2018, 09:37:08 am »

Quote from: RichMinSC on July 18, 2018, 09:34:52 am

I was warned this board is full of jerks -------- your reputation preceded you------------------ adm please remove my profile (this site won't let me do it) ------------ bye felicia

see ya later, snowflake

ZimW1N · « **Reply #667 on:** July 18, 2018, 09:42:38 am »

When we trade Robles, Soto, and Scherzer for Pivetta he'll come back.

bluestreak · « **Reply #668 on:** July 18, 2018, 09:43:07 am »

Quote from: Slateman on July 18, 2018, 09:37:08 am

see ya later, snowflake

I’ll tip my cap to you if you actually got rid of that guy...

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #669 on:** July 18, 2018, 12:47:41 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 18, 2018, 08:52:12 am

Who cares? A signing bonus does not make one a "top prospect"

Actually being scouted to have useful skills makes them a top prospect.

Pivetta was never a top prospect. Not here. Not in Philly. He was considered fringy, high ceiling, low floor prospect. Which is what he's turned out to be, so far.

Uh, don't you get the 2 million signing bonus after you were scouted and determined to have useful skills?

Slateman · « **Reply #670 on:** July 18, 2018, 12:53:03 pm »

Quote from: CoryTheFormerExposFan on July 18, 2018, 12:47:41 pm

Uh, don't you get the 2 million signing bonus after you were scouted and determined to have useful skills?

Kind of, but it still doesn't make you a top prospect. The bonus is to dissuade you from not signing. In baseball, players that are drafted can return to school if they don't sign with the team. Or they can go play Indy ball.

Like any draft pick, you have some sort of skillset that the scouts think can be projected and developed. But simply being given a signing bonus doesn't automatically bequeath you "top prospect" status. Like I said, Bubba Starling got 7 million and right now, the Royals would be lucky if he turned into Brian Goodwin.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #671 on:** July 18, 2018, 12:59:46 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 18, 2018, 12:53:03 pm

Kind of, but it still doesn't make you a top prospect. The bonus is to dissuade you from not signing. In baseball, players that are drafted can return to school if they don't sign with the team. Or they can go play Indy ball.

Like any draft pick, you have some sort of skillset that the scouts think can be projected and developed. But simply being given a signing bonus doesn't automatically bequeath you "top prospect" status. Like I said, Bubba Starling got 7 million and right now, the Royals would be lucky if he turned into Brian Goodwin.

I know quite a bit about the draft/bonus process. I work with an agent, have brought him guys that got drafted/signed, and followed along as he's gone through the process with others. Teams could careless about you not signing if you aren't an actual prospect. You don't throw 2 mill out unless you consider a guy a legit prospect based on your evaluations. The semantics of "top" are what the arguments are about. A top-10ish guy in your system can be given that label as you have big league potential and are in the top 10% of your organization. Then again that doesn't mean you're a "top" prospect that is considered can't-miss and top-25 in baseball.

tomterp · « **Reply #672 on:** July 18, 2018, 01:35:10 pm »

Quote from: CoryTheFormerExposFan on July 18, 2018, 12:59:46 pm

I know quite a bit about the draft/bonus process. I work with an agent, have brought him guys that got drafted/signed, and followed along as he's gone through the process with others. Teams could careless about you not signing if you aren't an actual prospect. You don't throw 2 mill out unless you consider a guy a legit prospect based on your evaluations. The semantics of "top" are what the arguments are about. A top-10ish guy in your system can be given that label as you have big league potential and are in the top 10% of your organization. Then again that doesn't mean you're a "top" prospect that is considered can't-miss and top-25 in baseball.

I keep seeing the $2m figure but am finding no support for it.

Quote

Drafted by Washington 2013 (4-136) (New Mexico JC). $0.3643M signing bonus (slot amount).

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/102061/nick-pivetta

That's not a trivial difference.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #673 on:** July 18, 2018, 01:42:15 pm »

Quote from: tomterp on July 18, 2018, 01:35:10 pm

I keep seeing the $2m figure but am finding no support for it.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/102061/nick-pivetta

That's not a trivial difference.

Yea I'm not the one who originally quoted it. I have no idea what his signing bonus was.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #674 on:** July 18, 2018, 01:43:56 pm »

I think somebody we could use as a trade chip is Mark Reynolds. Zimmerman replaces him as the RH 1B to platoon with Adams. Reynolds has been on fire and I think somebody would value him as a bench bat. I don't think we'd get much for him, but we could get a borderline prospect that turns out to be the next Pivetta.