The ZDK Trade Proposal Extravaganza Thread To End All Threads #OhYeah

[varoadking]

I agree...Abrams needs to go while he still has some value...

[Slateman]

Uh .... you would have to add a lot to CJ to get Kirby. Like, CJ is the throw in piece in that deal.

[imref]

Garcia back at short?  Oh lord. I'd rather see us resign Gallo and put him at short.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I would think that rather than Garcia back to short that they would just sign another FA, either an older place holder or perhaps a bit more expensive like Kim.

[imref]

I would think that rather than Garcia back to short that they would just sign another FA, either an older place holder or perhaps a bit more expensive like Kim.

Well, there's always Nunez.

Seaver King would be a better option at SS right now than Garcia.

[Senatorswin]

Gotta believe CJ works his way out of this. The talent is there.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Gotta believe CJ works his way out of this. The talent is there.

One of Seattle's pitchers would make me think about moving him.

[nobleisthyname]

Uh .... you would have to add a lot to CJ to get Kirby. Like, CJ is the throw in piece in that deal.

Yeah, Mariners don't even counteroffer if you start with Abrams for Kirby straight-up.

Also bWAR sucks, and this comparison between Abrams and Kirby is an excellent illustration of why. Abrams gets a boost from DRS, which is the most outdated of the advanced defensive metrics. By fWAR, which uses OAA, he's only been worth 1.5 WAR this season.

As for Kirby, bWAR does a weird defensive adjustment instead of just being a straight RA9 WAR calculation. Mariners defense must be above average this year because if you go by just RA9-WAR with no defensive adjustment his worth improves to 2.6 WAR. If you go by fWAR, which is generally better at predicting future pitching performance, he's at 3.7 WAR.

[Natsinpwc]

The Mariners have JP Crawford.  So they need a 2B!

[Natsinpwc]

Yeah, Mariners don't even counteroffer if you start with Abrams for Kirby straight-up.

Also bWAR sucks, and this comparison between Abrams and Kirby is an excellent illustration of why. Abrams gets a boost from DRS, which is the most outdated of the advanced defensive metrics. By fWAR, which uses OAA, he's only been worth 1.5 WAR this season.

As for Kirby, bWAR does a weird defensive adjustment instead of just being a straight RA9 WAR calculation. Mariners defense must be above average this year because if you go by just RA9-WAR with no defensive adjustment his worth improves to 2.6 WAR. If you go by fWAR, which is generally better at predicting future pitching performance, he's at 3.7 WAR.

I thought fWAR was the one that does the weird pitching interpretations?

[nobleisthyname]

I thought fWAR was the one that does the weird pitching interpretations?

Both bWAR and fWAR suck for pitching evaluation in my opinion. I prefer just straight RA9-WAR if I'm going to be looking at pitching WAR at all. But at least fWAR can be useful forecasting future value.

But to summarize:
Pitching bWAR is RA9-WAR with an adjustment for team defense (boost if team defense is bad, decrease if team defense is good).
Pitching fWAR uses FIP instead of runs allowed.

[Natsinpwc]

Both bWAR and fWAR suck for pitching evaluation in my opinion. I prefer just straight RA9-WAR if I'm going to be look at pitching WAR at all. But at least fWAR can be useful forecasting future value.

But to summarize:
Pitching bWAR is RA9-WAR with an adjustment for team defense (boost if team defense is bad, decrease if team defense is good).
Pitching fWAR uses FIP instead of runs allowed.

Thanks

[Slateman]

Kirby's WAR is low because he hasnt pitched as many innings. He's had some rough outings.

He was a 4 WAR pitcher. Kirby is going to compete for multiple Cy Youngs. This deal might have been an option at the ASB. But the Mariners aren't going to do it now. Change Kirby to Luis Castillo or Bryan Woo and you might have an actual negotiation.

[Elvir Ovcina]

"Sell low" isn't a good strategy.

[zimm_da_kid]

New Plan:

Sign Snell to a 4 year/$110M deal
Sign Soto to a 13 year/$585M deal ($45M AAV)

Trade Parker, Wallace, and Pinckney for Vlad jr.


SS Abrams
CF Crews
RF Wood
LF Soto
1B Vlad
2B Garcia
DH Chapparo
3B Tena/House
C Ruiz

Snell, Gore, Irvin, Herz, Cavalli/Lord/Lara/FA

[Natsinpwc]

You've reached new levels.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

curious what MLB trade values would say about your offer. Not that it's the be all, end all, but it's more info.

[imref]

i'd think you'd have to throw in Crews or Wood to have any chance of getting Vlad.

[zimm_da_kid]

i'd think you'd have to throw in Crews or Wood to have any chance of getting Vlad.

It's one year of vlad and 5 years of parker.  Young pitching is pricey.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

It's one year of vlad and 5 years of parker.  Young pitching is pricey.

it's 6 years of Parker. Doesn't become a free agent until after 2030 season.
https://www.fangraphs.com/players/mitchell-parker/27636/stats?position=P

Parker has value if he's seen as more than a backend starter. I just don't think the perception (and maybe the reality) is that he's more than that.

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

It's one year of vlad and 5 years of parker.  Young pitching is pricey.

Parker was a non-prospect that has a 4.43 ERA and mediocre K rate.  He’s a potential backend starter for his career.  Valuable?  Yes.  But that is ridiculously short of what it takes to get Vlad.

[zimm_da_kid]

Well then switch it up and make it a parker, young, cavalli+ for Rooker to bat behind Soto

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Well then switch it up and make it a parker, young, cavalli+ for Rooker to bat behind Soto

Do you ever ask yourself honestly why the other team would do these crazy trade ideas?  Rooker is controlled for 3 more seasons.  He’s a star.  This is laughable man.  Rooker would cost more than Vlad.  None of these three guys move the needle.

[zimm_da_kid]

Do you ever ask yourself honestly why the other team would do these crazy trade ideas?  Rooker is controlled for 3 more seasons.  He’s a star.  This is laughable man.  Rooker would cost more than Vlad.  None of these three guys move the needle.

Maybe I do maybe I don’t