Author Topic: The ZDK Trade Proposal Extravaganza Thread To End All Threads #OhYeah  (Read 45999 times)

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Offline Slateman

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I'd rather see us get into the Hosmer and Hassel/Campusano and other guys trade

Offline Natsinpwc

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The Lerners will not trade Soto and see attendance plummet further the next couple of years. If they lose him in free agency they will say they made him a fair offer. Trade is not going to happen. Get out of this delusional world.

Offline Slateman

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The Lerners will not trade Soto and see attendance plummet further the next couple of years. If they lose him in free agency they will say they made him a fair offer. Trade is not going to happen. Get out of this delusional world.
At least not in the offseason. I can see them trading him at the deadline of his walk year

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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The Lerners will not trade Soto and see attendance plummet further the next couple of years. If they lose him in free agency they will say they made him a fair offer. Trade is not going to happen. Get out of this delusional world.
it's the ZDK thread. By nature, it's supposed to be huge delusional deals


Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Who says no?

Soto, Bell, Corbin
FOR
Julio Rodriguez, Emerson Hancock, George Kirby, Noelvi Marte, Ty France, Kyle Lewis


Also Soto, bell, corbin
FOR
Hosmer, Myers, lamet, cronenworth, Abrams, Hassell, campusano, gore

Not you, to drugs.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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it's the ZDK thread. By nature, it's supposed to be huge delusional deals

Welcome!  Please stay a while. 

The water is warm

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Welcome!  Please stay a while. 

The water is warm
hey, I played well with my critique of the Mariners idea.  Also, to be fair, there may be something to Corbin to the Padres for their bad contracts angle.  At this point, though, I'd rather see the Nats be willing to take on bad contracts if the peripheral bait (prospects) come with it.  Forcing them to take on Corbin means less back for us. Not that rearranging bad contracts doesn't have value to us. Myers and Hosmer could be useful to the Nats even if they are overpaid, and if they block Padres prospects, SD might be willing to move them in a package.

I wonder about trying to unblock prospects for other teams as a way to get a bit of value.  Take the Red Sox for example.  Would they want to move maybe a Bobby Dalbec to unblock Tristan Casas?   Dalbec can even play 3rd (average D but they are not moving Devers).  There's got to be other examples. 

There's this guy, too.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/the-reds-have-a-eugenio-suarez-problem.html

I don't bite on Suarez.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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hey, I played well with my critique of the Mariners idea.

Why do you feel the need to explain yourself?  ZDK knows he's batcrap and doesn't care.  That's why he continues to post this stuff.

Offline Slateman

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If the Nationals had taken the steps to fix their crappy player development, I would do the Mariners' trade in a heartbeat

Offline Slateman

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hey, I played well with my critique of the Mariners idea.  Also, to be fair, there may be something to Corbin to the Padres for their bad contracts angle.  At this point, though, I'd rather see the Nats be willing to take on bad contracts if the peripheral bait (prospects) come with it.  Forcing them to take on Corbin means less back for us. Not that rearranging bad contracts doesn't have value to us. Myers and Hosmer could be useful to the Nats even if they are overpaid, and if they block Padres prospects, SD might be willing to move them in a package.

I wonder about trying to unblock prospects for other teams as a way to get a bit of value.  Take the Red Sox for example.  Would they want to move maybe a Bobby Dalbec to unblock Tristan Casas?   Dalbec can even play 3rd (average D but they are not moving Devers).  There's got to be other examples. 

There's this guy, too.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/the-reds-have-a-eugenio-suarez-problem.html

I don't bite on Suarez.

How much do you really believe in second half Bobby Dalbec?

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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hey, I played well with my critique of the Mariners idea.  Also, to be fair, there may be something to Corbin to the Padres for their bad contracts angle.  At this point, though, I'd rather see the Nats be willing to take on bad contracts if the peripheral bait (prospects) come with it.  Forcing them to take on Corbin means less back for us. Not that rearranging bad contracts doesn't have value to us. Myers and Hosmer could be useful to the Nats even if they are overpaid, and if they block Padres prospects, SD might be willing to move them in a package.

I wonder about trying to unblock prospects for other teams as a way to get a bit of value.  Take the Red Sox for example.  Would they want to move maybe a Bobby Dalbec to unblock Tristan Casas?   Dalbec can even play 3rd (average D but they are not moving Devers).  There's got to be other examples. 

There's this guy, too.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/the-reds-have-a-eugenio-suarez-problem.html

I don't bite on Suarez.

Suarez isn't that bad of a problem.  His contract is bad but not egregiously so - it's $11 million a year for the next 3.  If the Reds are desperate  to unload that, they have enough in terms of prospects to make it worthwhile even if they won't trade Greene or Lodolo (and if they are willing to do that, do whatever you need to get the deal done).   

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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How much do you really believe in second half Bobby Dalbec?
strikes me as nice #7 hitter with the pop, and I like that he's got a good enough glove, too.  I really have not read up enough on what folks thought might have led to the excellent last couple of months. His uptick coincided with Schwarber's arrival, FWIW (on the IL).  He was pretty good in 2020, too, so maybe the question is can you explain his first half?  He's not a break the bank guy to deal for, but if mid-season (or earlier) they decide Casas has to play, then maybe you take advantage, especially if you decide to also deal Bell at the deadline. Dalbec's just an example, but there's probably more attractive guys out there.

Suarez isn't that bad of a problem.  His contract is bad but not egregiously so - it's $11 million a year for the next 3.  If the Reds are desperate  to unload that, they have enough in terms of prospects to make it worthwhile even if they won't trade Greene or Lodolo (and if they are willing to do that, do whatever you need to get the deal done).   
what makes him or Moustakas attractive is that, by picking one up, Cinci doesn't have to move a starting pitcher to clear salary.  I just don't know if the tell-tales mentioned in the article regarding his decline are enough to scare me away. 

Imref posted a link to this from MLBTR:
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/teams-that-want-to-dump-salary-should-contact-the-nationals.html

Mentions Moustakas, Kiermaier, Kimbrel, JUpton, Myers, David Price, etc...  More or less, guys with 1-2 year commitments that could bring back prospects that would help by 2024.  Argues that showing willingness to continue to spend to expedite the rebuild might help convince Soto that this is a place he can stay and avoid the Mike Trout fate.

With so many tires to kick on this kind of move, you'd figure there's something to buy. 

Quote
With the Nats about $60MM to $80MM below their recent spending levels, they have a lot of room to work with. Though they’d surely like to keep payroll a bit lower during this rebooting phase, they’d also be wise to at least consider “buying” a few prospects to help them quickly build back up. After all, Soto won’t be interested in signing an extension until the club proves they’re trying to win. Spending some money now to improve the future could be one way of trying to convince him.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Mentions Moustakas, Kiermaier, Kimbrel, JUpton, Myers, David Price, etc...  More or less, guys with 1-2 year commitments that could bring back prospects that would help by 2024.  Argues that showing willingness to continue to spend to expedite the rebuild might help convince Soto that this is a place he can stay and avoid the Mike Trout fate.

With so many tires to kick on this kind of move, you'd figure there's something to buy.

I have a visceral distaste for doing anything to helping Preller away from his own sleaze-ridden incompetence.  Also, freak Kimbrel.  I'd have to turn off every game the Nats led by less than 5 runs after 8 in case he even appeared in the bullpen.

If you're trying to convince Soto, then pretty much none of those guys work, because they're all clear salary dumps without a ton of on-field value.  Suarez has more potential to actually rebound and be useful for longer - up through Soto's walk year.  And if he sucks, it's less of an annual millstone. 

For example (because it's the same team), Moustakas is more money but over a shorter period for an older guy who might be too injured to actually play much.  But that toxic mess clears before Soto's walk year, meaning you might get a year where (a) Moustakas is gone and (b) the prospect or prospects you get with him are likely to contribute (or have flopped) by then. 

It's just a philosophy difference: how much do you want to tolerate sucking in '22 and potentially '23?

Offline Slateman

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strikes me as nice #7 hitter with the pop, and I like that he's got a good enough glove, too.  I really have not read up enough on what folks thought might have led to the excellent last couple of months. His uptick coincided with Schwarber's arrival, FWIW (on the IL).  He was pretty good in 2020, too, so maybe the question is can you explain his first half?  He's not a break the bank guy to deal for, but if mid-season (or earlier) they decide Casas has to play, then maybe you take advantage, especially if you decide to also deal Bell at the deadline. Dalbec's just an example, but there's probably more attractive guys out there.
 what makes him or Moustakas attractive is that, by picking one up, Cinci doesn't have to move a starting pitcher to clear salary.  I just don't know if the tell-tales mentioned in the article regarding his decline are enough to scare me away. 

Imref posted a link to this from MLBTR:
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/teams-that-want-to-dump-salary-should-contact-the-nationals.html

Mentions Moustakas, Kiermaier, Kimbrel, JUpton, Myers, David Price, etc...  More or less, guys with 1-2 year commitments that could bring back prospects that would help by 2024.  Argues that showing willingness to continue to spend to expedite the rebuild might help convince Soto that this is a place he can stay and avoid the Mike Trout fate.

With so many tires to kick on this kind of move, you'd figure there's something to buy. 


I don't put a lot of faith in 2020 stats. But he struck out over 40% of the time. I think March through July is a lot more indicative of Dalbec than a hot August. Especially since he's been a poor contact hitter his whole career. Dalbec is the kind of guy you can sit on the bench or platoon if you come up with a better option at first. He's a fine utility guy/LHP pinch hitter.

The big problem with Cincy moving Moustakas is that they don't really get anything out of it. They still need some pretty significant improvements and Moustakas isn't really that expensive. Especially when you consider that they have to replace Castellanos as well. The only reason to move Moustakas would be to make a multiple splashes in free agency with that money before Castillo hits free agency. And so far, the Reds seem more inclined to sell and rebuild for a window that has Winker as the big bat.

If we're going to take on salary for prospects, the only real game in town is the Padres and Eric Hosmer. We have exactly what they need next season in Josh Bell. That would allow the Padres to put Cronenworth at second base, put Tatis at short, and go get another bat for a corner OF spot. Alternatively, they could push Tatis to a corner, play Cronenworth at short, and see if Kim can hit MLB pitching while playing elite defense at second. Either way, the Padres add power to a line up that really needs it. The big question is what would they be willing to give up. At the deadline, they wanted Gallo for Hassel and Hosmer, with the Padres eating some of Hosmer's contract. They have to deal Hosmer this season, or his 10/5 rights kick in, and it seems pretty obvious that Hosmer won't approve a trade. So it's good we're in the ZDK thread, because I'd be willing to give up Bell and either Eric Fedde or Kyle Finnegan, in exchange for Hosmer (and all of his contract), Campusano, Morejon, Woods, and one more prospect (Angeles, Rosario, or Haynes). I'd then look to move Campusano to either the Red Sox or the Marlins, both of whom are going to be looking for catching help. Alternatively, I'd consider another package around either Gore or Hassel, as long as the Padres included Nola (again, with the intention of flipping him).

But I don't see the Lerners allowing big spending. There is no combination of players you can sign that get us to .500, let alone make us a playoff team. Trading for a declining big contract certainly doesn't get you to .500. The Lerners are going to tell Rizzo to slash payroll in expectation of ticket sales plummeting even more. Rizzo isn't going to go out on a limb to get a big name/contract when he isn't sure that what he has can be a contender. The Lerners are going to be happy to sit with payroll at ~100 million. Rizzo isn't going to go out on a limb and demand spending when he still has so many question marks in Strasburg, Corbin, Gray, Kieboom, Robles, and Ruiz.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I don't quite have the cajones to take on 4 years of Hosmer.  No way on Earth he opts out after next year.  I'm not sure I'd do it even if it were a straight bad contract for bad contract swap with Corbin.  I honestly think Corbin was streaky and not complete stink last year (mid-April to end of June being a long positive streak, then all but one start in September maybe being smoke and mirrors).  I do prefer the model of spending a couple of years if you can get prospects with it.

Major point here is to buy prospects who can be useful while Soto is here.  Anything you get out of the big contract guy is a bonus.  Wil Myers would probably be an upgrade over Yadi/Thomas in a corner opposite Soto. 

Offline Slateman

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I dont know that Myers moves the needle enough, unless the Nats are giving up nothing or getting a marginal prospect in return.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I dont know that Myers moves the needle enough, unless the Nats are giving up nothing or getting a marginal prospect in return.
by "moves the needle," are you saying makes us a > .500 team?  I agree he doesn't.  That's not the goal, tbh. Even though he is probably better than at l1east one outfielder, so technically an upgrade, the goal is more to get a prospect in the package who can help us in 2023/24 time frame.  Maybe his salary isn't enough of a burden for SD to offer anything helpful to us for their salary relief, or maybe they don't have a guy he's blocking, but the goal here would not be "add myers then we contend with him."  The goal would be tolerate myers for a year as long as we get a guy along with him who can help.

Offline Slateman

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by "moves the needle," are you saying makes us a > .500 team?  I agree he doesn't.  That's not the goal, tbh. Even though he is probably better than at l1east one outfielder, so technically an upgrade, the goal is more to get a prospect in the package who can help us in 2023/24 time frame.  Maybe his salary isn't enough of a burden for SD to offer anything helpful to us for their salary relief, or maybe they don't have a guy he's blocking, but the goal here would not be "add myers then we contend with him."  The goal would be tolerate myers for a year as long as we get a guy along with him who can help.
I meant doesnt move the needle enough for the Padres.

They have to move Hosmer. They HAVE to. His contract and lack of play are huge problems for a team that is competing right now. He has 4 years left. He is a negative bat and glove. He will get 10/5 rights if they dont move him this season. And there are substantial rumors that he was a problem in the clubhouse and with the coaching staff.

Myers only has one year left. They could get away with platooning him against LHP, particularly if they get Hosmer off the books.

So there isnt a lot of impetus to move Myers right now. And the prospect that comes with him would be in the Josh Mears category.

Offline Slateman

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And of any money offload deal we could get, I would much rather throw that money at Seiya Suzuki

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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And of any money offload deal we could get, I would much rather throw that money at Seiya Suzuki
Suzuki would be a nice move. ZDK brought back him up. It's a different sort of move. It's a cornerstone

Offline Slateman

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Suzuki would be a nice move. ZDK brought back him up. It's a different sort of move. It's a cornerstone
Financially and roster wise, we're in a perfect place for him. We have plenty of payroll, we have an open spot for him, and we can afford to let him get used to big league pitching before placing any real expectations on him.

If the Lerners are really pinching money, then I say thats Rizzo's best bet. Offer 4 years, 60 million.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Financially and roster wise, we're in a perfect place for him. We have plenty of payroll, we have an open spot for him, and we can afford to let him get used to big league pitching before placing any real expectations on him.

If the Lerners are really pinching money, then I say thats Rizzo's best bet. Offer 4 years, 60 million.
What are the odds of a Japanese player signing in DC?  Slim and none methinks. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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What are the odds of a Japanese player signing in DC?  Slim and none methinks. 
unless he's really into cherry blossoms

Offline Slateman

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What are the odds of a Japanese player signing in DC?  Slim and none methinks. 
At the end of the day, he's a free agent. He will likely go where the money is the best. Particularly since his Japanese club gets a nice slice