2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Eh, I wouldn't go as far as comparing Sheets to the Crab, who had no history of success anywhere prior to signing with the Nats.

That said, it's almost like signing John Patterson.

[Lintyfresh85]

Don't want Doug Davis. Pass.

Yeah... lets sign Livan again. 

[Minty Fresh]

Eh, I wouldn't go as far as comparing Sheets to the Crab, who had no history of success anywhere prior to signing with the Nats.

That said, it's almost like signing John Patterson.

Yeah, Patterson had all the upside and college/amatuer/Olympic success that Sheets had. 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

1. I said "almost"
2. Performance at the Olympics and in college has to do with doling out pro contracts to ~30 year olds...how, exactly?

[Minty Fresh]

1. I said "almost"
2. Performance at the Olympics and in college has to do with doling out pro contracts to ~30 year olds...how, exactly?

You're the one who compared him to John Patterson, not me. 

I happen to think the kid's a #1 type starter if healthy.  People are talking about Piniero/Davis/Garland.  We know they AREN'T #1 type starters when healthy.  Why not, for a bit more money, take a flyer on Sheets who, if he works out, could be a #1 until Strasburg is ready and then make a damn fine #2? 

I'd rather see the club spend $10MM/year for two years of Sheets than $5MM/year for two years on Davis/Piniero/Garland/et al.

[Lintyfresh85]

I wouldn't.

We also know that you can get 200+ innings out of Davis/Pineiro/Garland. Sheets will be lucky to give you 125.

He's not worth the money and he won't stay healthy.

Since 2005, how many times has Sheets reached 200 IP? Zero.

Garland - 4 times
Davis - 3 times
Pineiro - 1 time

[Minty Fresh]

I wouldn't.

We also know that you can get 200+ innings out of Davis/Pineiro/Garland. Sheets will be lucky to give you 125.

He's not worth the money and he won't stay healthy.

But we went out and got our 200+ innings guy (Marquis).  We don't need a rotation full of those types of mediocre pitchers who just eat innings.  You need to have GOOD pitchers.  I know this is a reach because these organizations are in a different situation, but the Red Sox and Yankees have innings eaters who are GREAT at the top of their rotations.  Lots of people said Beckett would never recover.  Lots of people thought Burnett wouldn't ever regain his health.  Carpenter in St. Louis. 

We're going to need more than Strasburg going forward and there doesn't appear to be anyone in the minors, you've gotta try the Sheets types in the world.

The Lerners have the dough.  Paying Ben Sheets $5MM more than Joel Piniero isn't a big stretch for them.

[amanuel]

MLB.com - Free-agent pitcher Doug Davis said Sunday night that he would like to play for the Nationals, but the interest isn't entirely mutual.
Washington has informed Davis that they have to address other needs, such as finding a second baseman.

Davis, 34, played with the Diamondbacks this past season and went 9-14 with a 4.14 ERA.

"I'm [willing] to go anywhere and hopefully be a difference maker for a team that needs to make a turnaround and be successful," Davis said. "On my part -- of course -- [there's interest]. For them, because of the signing of Jason Marquis, it kind of put them in a bind [to spend] money for starting pitching. They had to address other problems.

"Possibly, when they find a second baseman, they can come back around to their starting pitching. Of course, I'm up to talking with anybody right now. Things are kind of going slow for me because I'm fifth or sixth down the line [when it comes to] starting pitching."

 

[HalfSmokes]

I wouldn't.

We also know that you can get 200+ innings out of Davis/Pineiro/Garland. Sheets will be lucky to give you 125.

He's not worth the money and he won't stay healthy.

Since 2005, how many times has Sheets reached 200 IP? Zero.

Garland - 4 times
Davis - 3 times
Pineiro - 1 time

but would you rather have 125 good to great innings + 75 replacement level innings, or 200 mediocre to good innings?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

But we went out and got our 200+ innings guy (Marquis).

Uh, we need TWO 200+ innings guys.  You're already forgetting the nightmare that was last year's rotation.  This year, we won't even have Jordan Zimmermann for 90 innings.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.  It's nice to know they aren't trying to do both.

[Minty Fresh]

Uh, we need TWO 200+ innings guys.  You're already forgetting the nightmare that was last year's rotation.  This year, we won't even have Jordan Zimmermann for 90 innings.

The actual REAL nightmare was that John Lannan was our "ace."  Lannan is a great middle of the rotation type and will be the other 200+ innings guy.  We need a #1 and Ben Sheets can provide that - Doug Davis/Joel Piniero/Jon Garland cannot.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Yeah, Ben Sheets, he who throws 80 innings and breaks his vagina, will be a #1.  GTFOWTBS.

[Lintyfresh85]

but would you rather have 125 good to great innings + 75 replacement level innings, or 200 mediocre to good innings?

200 mediocre to good every time.

Replacement level is something you don't want to be dealing with.

[Minty Fresh]

Yeah, Ben Sheets, he who throws 80 innings and breaks his vagina, will be a #1.  GTFOWTBS.

He only did it for four years in Milwaukee. 

GTFOWTBS 

[Minty Fresh]

200 mediocre to good every time.

Replacement level is something you don't want to be dealing with.

I guess it's just a difference in philosophy.

IMO we already have two 200+ innings guys (Lannan, Marquis).  I'd like a frontline type which IMO Sheets fits if he's healthy; plus if he can stick, he and Stras at the top would look mighty sweet.

[Lintyfresh85]

But don't you worry about the fact that he hasn't reached 200 innings since 2004 and that he didn't even pitch last year?

To me... thats a screaming red flag.

[aspenbubba]

Well I can see that things are heating up here as well . It appears that Rizzo was pre-occupied with Chapman and maybe he will make a move before the week is out. We definitely need another starter and I don't want to go to the bank with Sheets. Too iffy and it seems that his asking price is exhorbinant given his past health issues.Lets sign one of the three of Garland , Davis and  Pinerio and remember that Olsen has a legitimate shot at the rotation over Stammen, Mock, Chico, Detwiler , Bally (probably to the 'pen), Martin and Martis.

[HalfSmokes]

Sheets really belongs on a team like the Sox - one with a very competent training/medical staff that can afford to baby him in order to have him playing at the end of the season and in the playoffs. He may be fragile, but he still has great stuff when healthy

[Minty Fresh]

But don't you worry about the fact that he hasn't reached 200 innings since 2004 and that he didn't even pitch last year?

To me... thats a screaming red flag.

Absolutely.  It's a big risk but has the potential for a big reward. 

I just happen to think that with the moves this team has made this off-season to improve there's room for a couple of chances.  An addition of Garland/Davis/Piniero isn't going to make this team a big improvement, we know what they are, but Sheets COULD make a drastic improvement in a big time need area.

Are there chances that Sheets' arm is dead?  Absolutely.  But there's just as good a chance as his arm returning to form and right now is a great time to take that chance.

[Minty Fresh]

Sheets really belongs on a team like the Sox - one with a very competent training/medical staff that can afford to baby him in order to have him playing at the end of the season and in the playoffs. He may be fragile, but he still has great stuff when healthy

QFT.  That's what they did with Smoltz and Penny.  Even though they didn't work out, I think the Sox did themselves well by giving them a chance.

Sheets could be a great bargain for a team like the Sox as well.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Absolutely.  It's a big risk but has the potential for a big reward. 

I just happen to think that with the moves this team has made this off-season to improve there's room for a couple of chances.  An addition of Garland/Davis/Piniero isn't going to make this team a big improvement, we know what they are, but Sheets COULD make a drastic improvement in a big time need area.

Are there chances that Sheets' arm is dead?  Absolutely.  But there's just as good a chance as his arm returning to form and right now is a great time to take that chance.

You are so naive.  Why do you think he's hiding his medical history from teams?  There is a chronic problem and he knows it.

[Minty Fresh]

You are so naive.  Why do you think he's hiding his medical history from teams?  There is a chronic problem and he knows it.

Thanks postradamus.  Let me know when earn that medical degree.   

[I can Throw]

Absolutely.  It's a big risk but has the potential for a big reward. 

I just happen to think that with the moves this team has made this off-season to improve there's room for a couple of chances.  An addition of Garland/Davis/Piniero isn't going to make this team a big improvement, we know what they are, but Sheets COULD make a drastic improvement in a big time need area.

Are there chances that Sheets' arm is dead?  Absolutely.  But there's just as good a chance as his arm returning to form and right now is a great time to take that chance.

The Sox have quite a bit more resources than the Nats do, which makes this easier to deal with. They sign Sheets to be 4 or 5 and he doesn't pan out, they lost their 4 or5 starter. Nats sign him to be #1 starter, and he's broke by June - that hurts a lot more.

Actually I don't think you have to worry about Sheets with the Nats, he's going to end up with a team that can afford that risk.

[HalfSmokes]

You are so naive.  Why do you think he's hiding his medical history from teams?  There is a chronic problem and he knows it.

doesn't mean he can't have that one healthy season- look at Harden- he went from basically nothing to almost 150 innings. It doesn't make him Livan, but those innings do have value