Plan "B"

[spidernat]

Orlando Hudson, I've heard he doesn't care where he plays, just wants to play.

He wants to get paid.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

I guess we'll never really know because although the Lerners are said to have been "willing", they never actually made the offer. Why not just throw the offer out there if you're willing to spend it? If they felt they never had a shot then the offer was token anyway. Had they actually offered 200 and been turned down then that's another story. But they didn't. Probably because they were worried Teixeira may have accepted the 200.

It's pretty obvious Teix was being set-up, primed, and served to the Yanks from the beginning. For three weeks teams fought hard for his services, yet, in one day, almost under one hour and way under Boras' $200 million asking price, the Yanks sweep in and sign a contract? I say that proves Teix has a Yanks logo tattooed on his ass.

Again, it is business. You don't initially offer your highest price because there is always the chance you might get your target cheaper. This isn't anything new and there isn't a team that doesn't do this. Knowing this and knowing how fast the Yanks got the deal done and no one was allowed to match or go higher on the offer says nothing less than he was already looking at Central Park condos with full knowledge of where he wanted to go, no questions asked.

[hammondsnats]

Thank you, Ronny. Well said and I agree. I really think at this point all the anger from the Hammonds and Sportsfans of the world is really misplaced. The Lerners, Kasten, and even (dear god) JimBo are not perfect, but they have always been upfront with the fans about their plans, honest, and so far are doing everything in their power to bring some hope to DC. They haven't failed in the slightest on their end of the stick. However, who has failed us are the players, from Zimmerman to Bergmann.

Sure the players didn't play that great last season and sometimes one could argue it didn't seem like they were really trying ... but to put this ALL on them is a joke.

Honestly, you could make a case that the Nats were set up to fail.  That line-up, consisted of guys who are injury prone and have had character issues, and combine that with a spit and glue rotation ... why would you ever think this team would have been competitive last season?  Yeah injuries really killed this team, but still, c'mon now they were projected to finish at the bottom of the barrel of NL East anyway. 

Putting this team together falls on the GM.  But the GM only gets so much of a budget to work with.  I put blame on all of our front office/ownership for last year. 

[Minty Fresh]

I think people oppose Ramirez based on his age and his history of slacking off whenever he feels like it.

But the argument he was making was that we'd be weak against right-handed pitchers. 

I agree that Manny can be a tool, but to make the claim that Dunn hits righties better than Manny is simply untrue.

[spidernat]

But the argument he was making was that we'd be weak against right-handed pitchers. 

I agree that Manny can be a tool, but to make the claim that Dunn hits righties better than Manny is simply untrue.

True. I guess I meant most other posters oppose Ramirez for those reasons. PANatsFan is in love with Dunn so he has a different agenda.

[Minty Fresh]

Signing Adam Dunn will constitute a dismal failure on the part of the FO.  Dunn's contract will suck three years from now.  I'd rather sign 15 $1,000,000 minor-league free agents and roll the dice than $15,000,000 for Adam Dunn.

Dunn makes NO sense.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Sure the players didn't play that great last season and sometimes one could argue it didn't seem like they were really trying ... but to put this ALL on them is a joke.

Honestly, you could make a case that the Nats were set up to fail.  That line-up, consisted of guys who are injury prone and have had character issues, and combine that with a spit and glue rotation ... why would you ever think this team would have been competitive last season?  Yeah injuries really killed this team, but still, c'mon now they were projected to finish at the bottom of the barrel of NL East anyway. 

Putting this team together falls on the GM.  But the GM only gets so much of a budget to work with.  I put blame on all of our front office/ownership for last year. 

Then answer the question: What can the team possibly do if no one wants to play here? Even after ownership puts up big money to get these coveted FAs to produce the mixture of farm system and FAs several on these boards desperately want, they still say no. From Teix to Dunn to even Hudson. What can the team do at that point? What more could you possibly want the ownership to do?

I'm not placing full blame on the players, but I am saying they do hold some responsibility and they also can carry the destiny of this team. If no one wants to come here, regardless of money, it is ultimately going to fall on the Bergmanns to get their heads out of their asses, the Zimmermans to not have their early slumps, and the NJs and Dukes' to suck it up, and the Milledges, Balesters, and such to live up to potential.

The off season is not over yet, but it is a possibility this team might have to wake up to.

[hammondsnats]

some like dunn, others dislike him for his K's.  some like ramirez, others don't want his 'cancer' attitude. 

for those that would not like either one, i want to hear who you think is a better option (currently on our roster or out there)?

[Obed_Marsh]

for those that would not like either one, i want to hear who you think is a better option (currently on our roster or out there)?

Adrian Gonzalez or Justin Morneau. I am hoping for a holiday miracle.



Failing that I'd settle for Dunn or Manny but I doubt either would sign with a 102 game loser.

[hammondsnats]

milledge/balester/zimmerman/dukes/flores are what they are - YOUNG.  The Rays don't have just a bunch of younglings thrown out there.  They have some KEY veterans sprinkled around them.  We have old, fragile, retread veterans who bat .218 and can't contribute w/ the glove or bat.

And it makes no difference what I say, b/c most of you just come back with "oh there's hammondsnats w/ his lerners are cheap angle again" ... well let me bring this up:

Why on earth would Teix come here for ONLY $5 million more over the Yankees?  All that talk of us "potentially" going up to $200 million ... well we didn't.  We gave him an offer that was pretty similar to the Yanks, only slightly higher.  He went to a winner and took "less" money - if you can call it that. 

As big of a douche Aaron Crow is, what separated us from getting him was a couple hundred thousand dollars.  Yeah he's a prick, but we're that stingy over that little amount of money?  Excuse me, but I thought our whole "plan" was to build our major league team through a farm system.  We didn't sign our first round pick.

And we didn't sign our first free agent target.  And btw, I'm not calling $5 million a small ration, but we knew going in, we were going to have to WOW him with an offer.  We didn't.  Now let's move on and get Dunn/Ramirez, until our "plan" works and Marrero/Burgess are ready.

[Minty Fresh]

some like dunn, others dislike him for his K's.  some like ramirez, others don't want his 'cancer' attitude. 

for those that would not like either one, i want to hear who you think is a better option (currently on our roster or out there)?

Put a package together for Conor Jackson.  Andy LaRoche.

Sign D-Lowe.  Take a flyer on Sheets.

At this point, Manny or Dunn would be a waste of money and only an attempt to pacify whiners like you.  Why not hang onto the money and wait until there's someone out there worth signing for that kind of money?

[Obed_Marsh]

As big of a douche Aaron Crow is, what separated us from getting him was a couple hundred thousand dollars.

This was more about time. Crow refused to take a minor league deal and refused to take a physical the Nats insisted on before offering a major league contract. Granted there was still haggling going on over price. That said, I don't see any problem with not signing that little prick under those conditions.

Why on earth would Teix come here for ONLY $5 million more over the Yankees?

An option to walk away from the contract.
The promise of more $$ than other suitors.
Claims of winning ways in the future (would have loved to been a fly on the wall when they were discussing the future)

[hammondsnats]

At this point, Manny or Dunn would be a waste of money and only an attempt to pacify whiners like you.  Why not hang onto the money and wait until there's someone out there worth signing for that kind of money?

You know how to shut me up?  Start winning games.  Field a roster worth a damn.  Start showing real progress.   

I'm glad you are content with AAAA'ers.  You don't think someone who has hit 40 HRs in each of the last 5 seasons is worth a two/three year deal?  You don't think arguably one of the best hitters in recent memory is worth it?

[Minty Fresh]

If we sign Dunn, I hope all of those clamoring for the Lerner's to pony up come back in two years when we have a $15,000,000, 250 lb. paperweight playing 1B for us, ruining our infield defense and carrying a .212 average and say, "yeah, boy, I was wrong about that Adam Dunn thing; we should've saved the money and bought new Teddy costume.

[cmdterps44]

Put a package together for Conor Jackson.  Andy LaRoche.

Sign D-Lowe.  Take a flyer on Sheets.

At this point, Manny or Dunn would be a waste of money and only an attempt to pacify whiners like you.  Why not hang onto the money and wait until there's someone out there worth signing for that kind of money?

There is trading but will it work out?

Sure we can hold onto the money and suck another year or two until that next big FA comes along, or they acquire a bat like Dunn and help us out, hold us for a few years and see if we go that FA route or call up the youngsters in the minors, who are projected to be ready in 3 years...

Any decision other than holding out makes sense rather than sitting here not getting anything done in the next 2-3 months and coming into opening day with Johnson at first.

[Minty Fresh]

You don't think someone who has hit 40 HRs in each of the last 5 seasons is worth a two/three year deal?  You don't think arguably one of the best hitters in recent memory is worth it?

Can you HONESTLY say that with a straight face? 

Vs. righties he's decent, vs lefties he's average - on a good day.  He hit 40+ HR's in The Great American Bandbox.  He's not going to do that here.

[hammondsnats]

If we sign Dunn, I hope all of those clamoring for the Lerner's to pony up come back in two years when we have a $15,000,000, 250 lb. paperweight playing 1B for us, ruining our infield defense and carrying a .212 average and say, "yeah, boy, I was wrong about that Adam Dunn thing; we should've saved the money and bought new Teddy costume.

cuz we all know how one of the main driving points of the plan is "customer satisfaction."  Who gives a sh!t about racing presidents, free t-shirts, etc ... all I care about is winning. 

But in all seriousness, Dunn won't get anything over a four year deal.  Neither will Ramirez.  In fact I'll be surprised if either nets a three year deal.

I'd rather have one of them than "starting left fielder Ryan Langerhansssssss" or today's first baseman "Kory Castooooooo".

[hammondsnats]

Can you HONESTLY say that with a straight face? 

Vs. righties he's decent, vs lefties he's average - on a good day.  He hit 40+ HR's in The Great American Bandbox.  He's not going to do that here.

I was talking about Ramirez in the second part.  Dunn w/ the 40 HRs over 5 yrs.

[Minty Fresh]

There is trading but will it work out?

Sure we can hold onto the money and suck another year or two until that next big FA comes along, or they acquire a bat like Dunn and help us out, hold us for a few years and see if we go that FA route or call up the youngsters in the minors, who are projected to be ready in 3 years...

I agree with your argument - escept Dunn just isn't worth it.  You won't put butts in seats just because the guy may or may not hit 40 homers for us.  We need players who hit with more consistency than Dunn so we can win games. 

The Dunn lovers can point out only his homers as his main attribute.

[cmdterps44]

This was more about time. Crow refused to take a minor league deal and refused to take a physical the Nats insisted on before offering a major league contract. Granted there was still haggling going on over price. That said, I don't see any problem with not signing that little prick under those conditions.

Meh, Crow was a douche bag. I'm glad we dont have him here, although it did bring us "negative" views from others but freak them. Hopefully our second first round pick (what pick is it again? 9?) gets us something better than that rat prick. (Anger grrrr)

If we sign Dunn, I hope all of those clamoring for the Lerner's to pony up come back in two years when we have a $15,000,000, 250 lb. paperweight playing 1B for us, ruining our infield defense and carrying a .212 average and say, "yeah, boy, I was wrong about that Adam Dunn thing; we should've saved the money and bought new Teddy costume.

Hey, better skill than Austin Kearns ever produced here. Hell even Nick Johnson. Id rather do that than say "Aww crap Nick Johnsons down again for the 800th time"

[Obed_Marsh]

You know how to shut me up?  Start winning games.  Field a roster worth a damn.  Start showing real progress.   

Granted. World series rings all around.

[Minty Fresh]

I was talking about Ramirez in the second part.  Dunn w/ the 40 HRs over 5 yrs.

I'm not opposed to signing Ramirez.  He'll help us win games.  Dunn is a useless waste of space.

[Minty Fresh]

Meh, Crow was a douche bag. I'm glad we dont have him here, although it did bring us "negative" views from others but freak them. Hopefully our second first round pick (what pick is it again? 9?) gets us something better than that rat prick. (Anger grrrr)

Hey, better skill than Austin Kearns ever produced here. Hell even Nick Johnson. Id rather do that than say "Aww crap Nick Johnsons down again for the 800th time"

You can't predict another Nick injury.  Nobody can.  Dunn may be built like a brick craphouse, but he runs like a brick craphouse too.  Dunn is just as susceptible to injury at 1B than NJ is.

[sportsfan882]

How would you know?

For one the Tex situation was kinda bs, i mean he wanted to win, we all knew that, the more i think of it, i wanted a larger offer to be out there and turned down. Don't know what good that would've done but still would've showed others promise.

and a "better player" i refer to is Dunn and Hudson, our "supposed" plan B made by Bill Ludsun. I know you don't want Dunn here but he is easily the best choice we can get in the FA market for first base. I'm sure if the price is right he'd come.

Orlando Hudson, I've heard he doesn't care where he plays, just wants to play.

Sure we may be the worst but I know money is at the top of peoples mind.. In Tex's situation, the offers were close enough were he could get both of his needs: Money and Wins.

I disagree. Winning comes first. Players are going to take slightly less money to play for a winner. They are so rich that a couple million dollars are not going to sway them to play for a loser.

[cmdterps44]

I agree with your argument - escept Dunn just isn't worth it.  You won't put butts in seats just because the guy may or may not hit 40 homers for us.  We need players who hit with more consistency than Dunn so we can win games. 

The Dunn lovers can point out only his homers as his main attribute.

True that, but my view on this whole signing deal isn't the Dunn route, I hope its more than the Dunn route. Sign him, Sign O-Dog, Sign Sheets, Sign Lowe, crap sign more than one guy!! A starting pitcher, a hitter like Dunn, Hudsons still managable playing skill, etc etc. More than one piece is worth it. Just Dunn, i agree, would blow jerk.

I'm not saying to go overboard here, but get those guys that can help out the desperate spots (first base, second base, starting rotation, relief pitching)