Author Topic: Plan "B"  (Read 135456 times)

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Offline wpa2629

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #325 on: December 27, 2008, 06:31:29 pm »
Oh OK, thank you. I thought maybe they stopped counting once a team reached 81 losses. If that were the case then that means we didn't really lose 102 in '08.   ;)

No, I didn't mean it that way -- I meant if we had won only 6 more games, we'd have been 500 ... :)

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #326 on: December 27, 2008, 06:37:49 pm »
If the farm system is as good as the FO wants us to believe, we won't need many FAs when we're ready to contend. Look at the Rays last year, the D-Backs the year before were largely homegrown and trades. The Marlins won largely with home grown talent. Even the phillies last year didn't have big name free agents.

Our FO has overrated our system to give everyone hope.  If you ask around the league our farm has gotten better, but it's not elite in anyway. 

Everyone remembers we're the same franchise that used to be called the Expos - not exactly the most attractive organization.  And now everyone remembers our 102 loss season. 

It's time to get better.  We can do that with a COMBINATION of solid farm system and spending.  If not it's another roster of AAAA players and 90+ losses.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #327 on: December 27, 2008, 06:40:39 pm »
Well, it appears as if our FO is still ready to spend, so there's no use griping about that right now.

I just hope they've learned their lesson about the need to keep the team competitive every year in order to attract the once-in-a-generation FA's like Tex when they do hit the market.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #328 on: December 27, 2008, 06:46:22 pm »
No, I didn't mean it that way -- I meant if we had won only 6 more games, we'd have been 500 ... :)

Gotcha.  :thumbs:

MrMadison

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #329 on: December 27, 2008, 06:57:21 pm »
Our FO has overrated our system to give everyone hope.  If you ask around the league our farm has gotten better, but it's not elite in anyway. 

which is reasonable.  you don't turn a farm system into an elite one overnight.  our farm system is backloaded heavily. all the *real* talent is in the lower half of the farm system.

our AA and AAA are filled still with remnants of the Expos farm system. it's gonna take another 1 or 2 drafts before Nats-drafted talent begins to pour into the upper levels of our farm system.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #330 on: December 27, 2008, 07:06:59 pm »
which is reasonable.  you don't turn a farm system into an elite one overnight.  our farm system is backloaded heavily. all the *real* talent is in the lower half of the farm system.

our AA and AAA are filled still with remnants of the Expos farm system. it's gonna take another 1 or 2 drafts before Nats-drafted talent begins to pour into the upper levels of our farm system.

The farm rating is also skewed somewhat because the top prospects are in the Majors -- Millege, Flores, Dukes, Zimmerman, Ballester, Lannan - in other organizations, it's likely they're still in the minors waiting their turns behind established regulars --that's just not the case in DC - we're fast tracking more minor leaguers than other clubs probably would ...

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #331 on: December 27, 2008, 07:10:00 pm »
which is reasonable.  you don't turn a farm system into an elite one overnight.  our farm system is backloaded heavily. all the *real* talent is in the lower half of the farm system.

our AA and AAA are filled still with remnants of the Expos farm system. it's gonna take another 1 or 2 drafts before Nats-drafted talent begins to pour into the upper levels of our farm system.

oh i know and I'm happy with where it's at right now, honestly.  with no offense to casto - he was regarded as our best prospect a few years ago - now we actually have some legit players with potential.  but it's still not as good as most of us make it out to be. 

Offline spidernat

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #332 on: December 27, 2008, 07:12:46 pm »
Zimmerman has been in the majors for over 3 seasons already so I wouldn't count him as a prospect anymore, even for the sake of this discussion. The same can almost be said about Milledge but you're right about the other ones, Flores was only on the MLB roster in '07 because he had to be so I would still count him as a prospect.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #333 on: December 27, 2008, 07:15:48 pm »
Zimmerman has been in the majors for over 3 seasons already so I wouldn't count him as a prospect anymore, even for the sake of this discussion. The same can almost be said about Milledge but you're right about the other ones, Flores was only on the MLB roster in '07 because he had to be so I would still count him as a prospect.

Well I was speaking of when Ryan first got here -- how fast Ryan went from College senior to minor leaguer to major leaguer -- what was it -- 8 weeks?  And wasn't millege in the Mets minor leagues when the trade was made (even though I know he saw some time with the big club) ... regardless -- it would seem we're fast tracking more players than other clubs otherwise would ...

MrMadison

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #334 on: December 27, 2008, 07:20:40 pm »
Well I was speaking of when Ryan first got here -- how fast Ryan went from College senior to minor leaguer to major leaguer -- what was it -- 8 weeks?  And wasn't millege in the Mets minor leagues when the trade was made (even though I know he saw some time with the big club) ... regardless -- it would seem we're fast tracking more players than other clubs otherwise would ...

Milledge made his MLB debut in 2006 for the Mets. he made the Opening Day roster in 2007 , but went back down in April to make room for a pitcher, and then came back up later in the season.

2008 was Milledge's first *full* season in the Majors.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #335 on: December 27, 2008, 07:23:11 pm »
Milledge had 166 AB's in '06.

Well I was speaking of when Ryan first got here -- how fast Ryan went from College senior to minor leaguer to major leaguer -- what was it -- 8 weeks?  And wasn't millege in the Mets minor leagues when the trade was made (even though I know he saw some time with the big club) ... regardless -- it would seem we're fast tracking more players than other clubs otherwise would ...

My bad. I was going by this...

The farm rating is also skewed somewhat because the top prospects are in the Majors-- Millege, Flores, Dukes, Zimmerman, Ballester, Lannan - in other organizations, it's likely they're still in the minors waiting their turns behind established regulars --

MrMadison

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #336 on: December 27, 2008, 07:23:34 pm »
Milledge had 166 AB's in '06.

yeah, i changed my statement there.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #337 on: December 27, 2008, 07:23:39 pm »
Milledge made his MLB debut in 2007 for the Mets. then they traded him to us in the offseason.

2008 was Milledge's first full season.

Got it  -- so you could still consider him a prospect in that regard I would imagine -- in as much as with another club, he would probably be behind an established major leaguer ...

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #338 on: December 27, 2008, 07:30:46 pm »
Milledge had 166 AB's in '06.

My bad. I was going by this...


Yeah, I wasn't clear ...

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #339 on: December 27, 2008, 10:40:12 pm »
Well, it appears as if our FO is still ready to spend, so there's no use griping about that right now.

I just hope they've learned their lesson about the need to keep the team competitive every year in order to attract the once-in-a-generation FA's like Tex when they do hit the market.

Tex was once-in-a-year, maybe once-in-three-years. I hate this overvaluing crap. He's not A-Rod.

Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #340 on: December 27, 2008, 11:21:37 pm »
Tex was once-in-a-year, maybe once-in-three-years. I hate this overvaluing crap. He's not A-Rod.

Yep.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #341 on: December 28, 2008, 12:10:12 am »
Tex was once-in-a-year, maybe once-in-three-years. I hate this overvaluing crap. He's not A-Rod.
In terms of matching up with the Nationals' immediate and long-term needs perfectly and being an ideal free agent, he certainly isn't "once-in-a-year" and probably isn't "once-in-three-years" either.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #342 on: December 28, 2008, 09:19:19 am »
In terms of matching up with the Nationals' immediate and long-term needs perfectly and being an ideal free agent, he certainly isn't "once-in-a-year" and probably isn't "once-in-three-years" either.

I would say he is once in three years- he's in the top five (arguably top three) at his position and still has his prime years a head of him. Its rare for guys like that to make it too free agency in their prime.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #343 on: December 28, 2008, 10:17:06 am »
Knowing me, I'm probably forgetting someone, but I don't think there's been a FA as good as he is in at least 4-5 years.

Before someone mentions Soriano, Tex is better.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #344 on: December 28, 2008, 11:06:31 am »
Knowing me, I'm probably forgetting someone, but I don't think there's been a FA as good as he is in at least 4-5 years.

Alex Rodriguez in 2007 to name just one.

Offline DCFan

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #345 on: December 28, 2008, 11:10:50 am »
Knowing me, I'm probably forgetting someone, but I don't think there's been a FA as good as he is in at least 4-5 years.

Before someone mentions Soriano, Tex is better.
I'll answer your Q with another Q, when was the last time we saw a free agent get 5 contract offers of at least $140 mil (and that's in a roaring recession with many teams and the league in general laying employees off)? That shows what baseball thinks of his talents.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #346 on: December 28, 2008, 11:21:24 am »
I'll answer your Q with another Q, when was the last time we saw a free agent get 5 contract offers of at least $140 mil (and that's in a roaring recession with many teams and the league in general laying employees off)? That shows what baseball thinks of his talents.

Arguing with the straw man eh? The recession is the unique part of your argument. Not the contract offers.

CC Sabathia. $161,000,000 (2009-2015)
Miguel Cabrera $152,300,000 (2008-2015)
Alex Rodriguez $275,000,000 (2008-2017)

Offline BangZoom

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #347 on: December 28, 2008, 01:19:26 pm »
I'm fine with getting Adam Dunn or Manny Ramirez, but it sounds like we're not showing any interest in Manny, so I suspect we'll snatch Dunn.

We still need another starting pitcher. Right now it's Lannan, Olsen, Balester, Cabrera.

Offline DCFan

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #348 on: December 28, 2008, 01:39:42 pm »
CC Sabathia. $161,000,000 (2009-2015)
"5 contract offers of at least $140 mil" - name the 5 teams and list their offers.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Plan "B"
« Reply #349 on: December 28, 2008, 01:42:17 pm »
"5 contract offers of at least $140 mil" - name the 5 teams and list their offers.

What difference does it make how many teams offered the money? As far as I recall only 1 team offered A-Rod that kind of money but that doesn't mean he is an inferior player when compared to Teixeira.