Plan "B"

[MrMadison]

I'm not sure it makes much difference who of those two bats in front of the other, if that's your concern.  What are you thinking?

it may not.

I'm under the impression that the conventional thinking is that Dukes is a 4 or 5 hitter, depending on who we acquire.  I think 6 one slot too low for him. well, possibly. he's got the potential to be a major run producer from the 5 slot, more so than Willingham I think.  I see Willingham as a serviceable, solid outfielder, but not one to rely on as a primary run producer.  seeing 20HR and 25 2b from Willingham from the 6 slot, and 30+ hr, 25+ doubles from Dukes at #5 is what I am envisioning.

but then again I'VE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME, so what the hell do I know, right?

[spidernat]

^  Didn't you say you played baseball in HS?

[MrMadison]

^  Didn't you say you played baseball in HS?

I did say that, and I did play. 

but when people (not tomterp) are dodging having to respond a statement of disagreement, facts like that can't be brought up.

didn't you know that?

[cmdterps44]

I think its another one of those sarcastic remarks. Dunno though. I think it works both ways (the dukes position and willingham spot)

[MrMadison]

plus, Dukes takes a lot of walks as it is.

I'd rather have Willingham-to-Flores behind him when he walks than Flores-to-Hernandez, honestly.

feel me?

[ronnynat]

I REALLY don't want Guzman leading off.

[tomterp]

it may not.

I'm under the impression that the conventional thinking is that Dukes is a 4 or 5 hitter, depending on who we acquire.  I think 6 one slot too low for him. well, possibly. he's got the potential to be a major run producer from the 5 slot, more so than Willingham I think.  I see Willingham as a serviceable, solid outfielder, but not one to rely on as a primary run producer.  seeing 20HR and 25 2b from Willingham from the 6 slot, and 30+ hr, 25+ doubles from Dukes at #5 is what I am envisioning.

but then again I'VE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME, so what the hell do I know, right?

I wasn't being critical, just asking.

BP did a study of lineup theory, running lots of simulations and the like, and didn't find lineups to be very important overall.  Generally, a team should set it's lineup in descending order of OBP, allowing for breaking up lefty righty combinations, or other specific needs.

I think Willingham and Dukes will be somewhat comparable overall offensively, though Dukes maybe a better OBP so let him hit ahead, but I don't feel strongly about it.

[cmdterps44]

plus, Dukes takes a lot of walks as it is.

I'd rather have Willingham-to-Flores behind him when he walks than Flores-to-Hernandez, honestly.

feel me?

Makes more sense, yes

[hammondsnats]

dude it really doesn't matter to me.  a lot of people on here don't think zimmerman is capable of being a #3 hitter.  ultimately it comes down to manny acta and what he wants and who we get. 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I wasn't being critical, just asking.

BP did a study of lineup theory, running lots of simulations and the like, and didn't find lineups to be very important overall.

I've seen sabermetric stuff that completely contradicts that notion.

[tomterp]

I've seen sabermetric stuff that completely contradicts that notion.

I'm open minded about it all, can you find something to bring here?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

This will sound like I'm full of it, but no, I can't.

Actually, it might not have been sabermetric, but it was stat-heady and research was put into it.

It was this generator that took the OBP's and slugging percentages of everyone in a given line-up and gave you an approximation of how many runs per game that line-up would score.

[cmdterps44]

Sounds futuristic and crap

[PANatsFan]

This will sound like I'm full of it, but no, I can't.

Actually, it might not have been sabermetric, but it was stat-heady and research was put into it.

It was this generator that took the OBP's and slugging percentages of everyone in a given line-up and gave you an approximation of how many runs per game that line-up would score.

I thought you are supposed to bat guys in OBP order, best to worst. Youkilis bats leadoff sometimes.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I don't think it's that simple.  You want a guy with a high slugging percentage to have guys on base in front of him.

[tomterp]

I don't think it's that simple.  You want a guy with a high slugging percentage to have guys on base in front of him.

That's not inconcistent with stacking in OBP order, most of the time. 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

A lot of the time it is, I've found.  Do that to last year's Red Sox and you bat J.D. Drew and Kevin Youkilis 1-2 while putting Pedroia somewhere around the clean-up spot.  That doesn't make a lot of sense to me!

[Air Zimmerman]

Which line-up do you like better?

a)
SS Guzman
CF Milledge
3B Zimmerman
LF Ramirez
1B Willingham
RF Dukes
C Flores
2B Hernandez

or

b)
SS Guzman
CF Milledge
3B Zimmerman
1B Dunn
LF Willingham
RF Dukes
C Flores
2B Hernandez

batting THE BEAST anywhere below 5th is retarded.  but i like lineup a better, b/c
Manny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dunn.

i still say Dukes has all of the weapons to be a lethal lead-off hitter.

[UMDNats]

i will be so sad if we get manny.

it would be a move all about putting butts in the seats and trying to grab some national (crap, even local) attention. it doesn't make sense in this team's plan, and I'd rather have someone who is going to be here long-term out there. even dunn.

[houston-nat]

Buster Olney reports we are now checking in on Orlando Hudson.

[PatsNats28]

Nooooo! I just know he will fail here.

[MrMadison]

Buster Olney reports we are now checking in on Orlando Hudson.

yep. the O-Dog watch commences.  I was just coming here to comment on this.

[Obed_Marsh]

Clearly, the Nationals are farther away from competing than any other contender for Teixeira. Still, that doesn't mean that they can't make a splash in the free agent market, particularly with plenty of bargains out there with the market readjusting to tougher economic times (at least outside of the Bronx). This is obviously more Chico's territory than my own, but here's giving it a good ol' holiday try:

   1. They could sign Adam Dunn. Clearly, Dunn is the buzz name, not only over at Nationals Journal but among all the real Nats fans hopeful for an improvement on the field ... and in morale. Dunn would add power, average and some credibility to the organization, providing a significant step forward and proving that owner Ted Lerner really will spend his money when he thinks there's a value on the market.

   2. They could sign Orlando Hudson. The Nats need a second baseman again after trading away Emilio Bonifcacio, and Hudson is a nice National League second baseman. The contract numbers being tossed around may seem inflated for Hudson because of his sometimes pedestrian bat, but he's such an unbelievably slick fielder that he saves enough runs to more than compensate for any offensive slowdowns. Call it a gut instinct, but I'm betting the Nats are a lot more likely to splurge on a basher like Dunn than Hudson, even though they could add both for less than they would have spent for Teixeira.

   3. Here's the dynamite move: They could sign Manny Ramirez. Yes, it sounds like a pipe dream, and yes it's a bit of a reach. But as the market for "Manny Being Manny" continues to collapse around him -- the Yankees aren't going to sign him, and Angels GM Tony Reagins insisted repeatedly yesterday that he will never play in Anaheim -- it's quite possible that the Nationals are one of only two possible landing pads for Senor Ramirez. The other, of course, is back with the Dodgers, but that would likely net Ramirez only a two year deal, possibly even a weaker one than the two-year, $45 million deal he was offered at the offseason's outset. Say the Nats come in and try to sweep Ramirez up for three-years and $63 million? They might get him, and the way Ramirez is hitting, that's probably a good deal.

Granted, the Ramirez move may be a stretch, but it really isn't as out of the question as some may believe. Now, if Nats fans really want to get optimistic, imagine if they signed Manny, then jumped in and got Dunn when the first baseman couldn't find another suitor willing to give him a contract longer than two years. Your middle of the Nationals order could look something like this: 2) Ryan Zimmerman, 3) Manny Ramirez, 4) Adam Dunn, Josh Willingham. That's not half bad, people. Not bad at all. Now, it's more likely that the Nats will try to dig up interest in another trade, but if they can add these pieces without losing any prospects, why not, right?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/baseball-insider/2008/12/what_next_for_teixeira_losers.html?hpid=news-col-blog-viewall

Has someone been reading WNFF?

[MrMadison]

but seriously though...we need a power bat a lot more than we need Orlando Hudson.

it's good that we're talking to him about playing here, but we really need to be talking to Dunn or Manny, or talking to someone about a trade for a first baseman.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

It's not like we can't do both at once.