Plan "B"

[DCFan]

What difference does it make how many teams offered the money? As far as I recall only 1 team offered A-Rod that kind of money but that doesn't mean he is an inferior player when compared to Teixeira.

Such broad appeal shows his value in baseball, irrespective of what a bunch of nit-wits on an internet message board think of his abilities and worth.

[hammondsnats]

The more and more I think about it, the Nats MUST get Ramirez or Dunn this offseason.  They may not be around four-five years from now, but either one would help for both short term and long term.

Either one:
1) Will help for more wins in the short term.
2) Will send a sign to other free agents that our owners are willing to spend dough and are trying to get better. 
3) Will make our line-ups much better.
4) Allows us not to rush our young prospects at those positions (Burgess/Marrero).
5) Gives a reason for fans to come out to Nats Park and watch our games.
6) Gives our team optimism that our organization wants to get better.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Such broad appeal shows his value in baseball, irrespective of what a bunch of nit-wits on an internet message board think of his abilities and worth.

Well in that case, Adam Dunn shouldn't be on our radar. He doesn't fulfill the quota of interested teams.

[spidernat]

Well in that case, Adam Dunn shouldn't be on our radar. He doesn't fulfill the quota of interested teams.

2) Will send a sign to other free agents that our owners are willing to spend dough and are trying to get better. 

TBD   

[Obed_Marsh]

Such broad appeal shows his value in baseball, irrespective of what a bunch of nit-wits on an internet message board think of his abilities and worth.

Nice. You combined ad homnem, an appeal to popularity, and a appeal to authority in one fallacy.

[MrMadison]

Such broad appeal shows his value in baseball, irrespective of what a bunch of nit-wits on an internet message board think of his abilities and worth.

so then we should only sign players that get 5 offers for 140m or more, and just ignore the rest as they are not valuable?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Alex Rodriguez in 2007 to name just one.

Well, to be fair, I meant FA not to be signed quickly enough by their former team.

[Obed_Marsh]

Well, to be fair, I meant FA not to be signed quickly enough by their former team.

He was a free agent from October to November. Seems fair enough. If not, CC Sabathia or Miguel Cabrera seem to be adequate examples.

However, '07 marked the end of his 10-year contract and Alex Rodriguez suddenly found himself being a free agent once again. In October, he announced that he would not be renewing his contract, and he found himself under fire for not discussing the decision with Yankees' management first. On November 15, 2007, Alex Rodriguez and the Yanks agreed on a basic 10-year $275 million contract.

http://www.askmen.com/celebs/men/sports/46_alex_rodriguez.html

[DCFan]

so then we should only sign players that get 5 offers for 140m or more, and just ignore the rest as they are not valuable?

If that's what you think I was saying about Tex's worth, then you're dumber than I thought. Heck, I can't ask thom202 to explain it to you since he obviously flunked reading comprehension. 

[Obed_Marsh]

If that's what you think I was saying about Tex's worth, then you're dumber than I thought. Heck, I can't ask thom202 to explain it to you since he obviously flunked reading comprehension. 

That's not funny. I am illiterate.

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[hammondsnats]

Penny to the Sawxxx, so scratch him off our list.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

^Reading your sig, I think you should change "Anderson 'Cooper' Hernandez" to "Anderson 360" Hernandez.  Makes more sense as a baseball nickname, IMO.

He was a free agent from October to November. Seems fair enough. If not, CC Sabathia or Miguel Cabrera seem to be adequate examples.

I simply don't consider the ARod or Cabrera situations to be analogous because teams did not have a free run at their services.

As for Sabathia, Teixeira is simply more valuable AND reliable because he's a hitter.

[houston-nat]

^Reading your sig, I think you should change "Anderson 'Cooper' Hernandez" to "Anderson 360" Hernandez.  Makes more sense as a baseball nickname,

Also it's his Dominican League batting average!

[Minty Fresh]

Hearing this morning that Penny went to the Frat Sox for around 3 MM.  Why aren't we in on that?  Seriously?  This administration spent 5 MM apiece on Walnuts AND Fat Johnny and we can't take a flyer on Penny for less that 5 MM?  Even for just one season? 

And while we're at it, the Frat Sox also are closing in on Josh Bard for less than 1.5 MM.  Same as above.  Walnuts for 5 MM but we can't get Bard for 2 MM?

Ugh.  I'm starting to dread the worst for this off-season.

If we get Dunn for 18 MM and nothing else, this off-season is a dismal failure (except the Olsen/Willingham thing...).

[Obed_Marsh]

Hearing this morning that Penny went to the Frat Sox for around 3 MM.  Why aren't we in on that?  Seriously?  This administration spent 5 MM apiece on Walnuts AND Fat Johnny and we can't take a flyer on Penny for less that 5 MM?  Even for just one season?

My suspicion is that no free agent wants to play for a 102 game loser. I anticipate minimal signings this offseason.

From Bradford:
    “There were a lot of teams involved,” said Penny in a phone conversation. “But I wanted to go somewhere where I knew we had a great chance at winning, and Boston is that place.”

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/bard-red-sox-mo.html#comments

Knowing me, I'm probably forgetting someone, but I don't think there's been a FA as good as he is in at least 4-5 years.

Before someone mentions Soriano, Tex is better.

I simply don't consider the ARod or Cabrera situations to be analogous because teams did not have a free run at their services.

As for Sabathia, Teixeira is simply more valuable AND reliable because he's a hitter.

Tricky ACTAvation Energy. Redefining free agent to suit you preconception.

Let's evaluate via VORP. Granted it doesn't account for reliability but seems a fair measure of value last year.

C.C. Sabathia: 17-10, 2.70 ERA, 59:251 BB:K ratio, 76.2 VORP
Mark Teixeira: 308/410/552, 66.5 VORP

http://whizball.blogspot.com/2008/11/4th-annual-whiz-kid-awards.html

[HalfSmokes]

My suspicion is that no free agent wants to play for a 102 game loser. I anticipate minimal signings this offseason.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/bard-red-sox-mo.html#comments

Tricky ACTAvation Energy. Redefining free agent to suit you preconception.

Let's evaluate via VORP. Granted it doesn't account for reliability but seems a fair measure of value last year.

C.C. Sabathia: 17-10, 2.70 ERA, 59:251 BB:K ratio, 76.2 VORP
Mark Teixeira: 308/410/552, 66.5 VORP

http://whizball.blogspot.com/2008/11/4th-annual-whiz-kid-awards.html

Reliability for a pitcher is huge, pitchers break down much faster than first basemen. $100,000,000 pitchers tend to break down fast and in spectacular fashion.

[Obed_Marsh]

Reliability for a pitcher is huge, pitchers break down much faster than first basemen. $100,000,000 pitchers tend to break down fast and in spectacular fashion.

True but reliability is a new criteria in the argument. Originally they just needed to be good free agents. These players are good free agents by any standard definition of the term.

This once every four to five years stuff only works by redefining the market to exclude comparable players the observer doesn't want to consider.

Granted it is lot more rational than counting the number of offers to the player or ogling his kicks like some of the misguided individuals around here.

[houston-nat]

Reliability for a pitcher is huge, pitchers break down much faster than first basemen. $100,000,000 pitchers tend to break down fast and in spectacular fashion.

Paging Dr. Zito! I'm pissed about that, because I still bought baseball cards when Barry Zito was a rookie for the A's, and that year I did get a Barry Zito rookie card. Then a few years later he won the Cy Young and I was like, "Whoa! Don't I have his rookie card?" Except now he sucks balls so it doesn't matter.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Paging Dr. Zito! I'm pissed about that, because I still bought baseball cards when Barry Zito was a rookie for the A's, and that year I did get a Barry Zito rookie card. Then a few years later he won the Cy Young and I was like, "Whoa! Don't I have his rookie card?" Except now he sucks balls so it doesn't matter.

I know how you feel, but a little bit worse. I've been sitting on six Jason Bergmann rookie cards.

[Obed_Marsh]

I know how you feel, but a little bit worse. I've been sitting on six Jason Bergmann rookie cards.

Rub it in guys. Mine are Shawn Hill and Ryan Wagner.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Tricky ACTAvation Energy. Redefining free agent to suit you preconception.

Let's evaluate via VORP. Granted it doesn't account for reliability but seems a fair measure of value last year.

C.C. Sabathia: 17-10, 2.70 ERA, 59:251 BB:K ratio, 76.2 VORP
Mark Teixeira: 308/410/552, 66.5 VORP

http://whizball.blogspot.com/2008/11/4th-annual-whiz-kid-awards.html

I'm kind of full of crap, admittedly, but I wasn't really considering guys who re-signed with their teams when I made that statement about Tex.  If he had really wanted to re-sign with the Angels after a few weeks of free agency, this whole ordeal would've been way different.

Your point about Sabathia and Tex's VORP is fair, but as you admitted, it doesn't account for reliability and Sabathia is MUCH more likely to have his arm fall off than Tex is to suffer some awful injury.

My original statement was definitely hyperbole, but my point still stands that really great free agents don't go on trees and you can't just be a perennial loser if you want to use free agency the way Kasten and co. do.

It's really illogical what they're doing.  They're saying they want to get "the right guys" via free agency and all other pricey-ish free agents be damned.  Well fine, go ahead and pursue someone like Teixeira every so often when you have your perfect match.  Those types will look at your cellar dwelling team and then look at teams like Boston and the Yanks and take their pick.

Doesn't seem like sound strategy to me.

[Obed_Marsh]

My original statement was definitely hyperbole, but my point still stands that really great free agents don't go on trees and you can't just be a perennial loser if you want to use free agency the way Kasten and co. do.

It's really illogical what they're doing.  They're saying they want to get "the right guys" via free agency and all other pricey-ish free agents be damned.  Well fine, go ahead and pursue someone like Teixeira every so often when you have your perfect match.  Those types will look at your cellar dwelling team and then look at teams like Boston and the Yanks and take their pick.

Doesn't seem like sound strategy to me.

I agree completely. 

[houston-nat]

I know how you feel, but a little bit worse. I've been sitting on six Jason Bergmann rookie cards.

Ouch.

[PANatsFan]

Ouch.

Paper cuts?

[cmdterps44]

This sucks why arent we making any moves...