Author Topic: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle  (Read 3093 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #75: August 20, 2022, 06:47:52 PM »
Can we move Prospects threads instead of locking them? Anyway

...

this is a good idea, at least for Abrams. This thread is so prospect and scouting that there's no reason to repeat. We won't do it all the time.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #76: August 20, 2022, 06:50:49 PM »
I couldn't find an Abrams prospect thread. If you could bump it I will move and merge

Offline Kevrock

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #77: August 20, 2022, 08:00:43 PM »
Can’t bump because it’s locked :)

Not trying to be a pain, it is hard to find once they get closed sometimes. Also can’t quote existing posts if the thread is locked.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #78: August 20, 2022, 08:01:30 PM »
It had fallen to page 2 already

https://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=40250.0

Offline Kevrock

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #79: August 20, 2022, 08:02:03 PM »
I do think there’s value in having scouting reports in the first few posts even after they get promoted.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #80: August 20, 2022, 08:24:14 PM »
Ok, it's all in the clubhouse thread now. I changed the ftp posts to the clubhouse heading. He better not get sent down :)

Offline rileyn

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #81: August 28, 2022, 07:13:42 AM »
He is clearly not ready but I keep looking for a sign, a flash, anything just to give me some hope that he is our future SS.  I'm still looking.

Offline imref

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #82: August 28, 2022, 08:08:03 AM »
He’s had some defensive flashes and pretty good swings last night.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #83: August 28, 2022, 09:06:41 AM »
He can actually play shortstop so that’s something

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #84: August 28, 2022, 09:32:20 AM »
He is clearly not ready but I keep looking for a sign, a flash, anything just to give me some hope that he is our future SS.  I'm still looking.
Keep thinking about how bad Garcia was at SS and how much better CJ is in the field. 

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #85: August 28, 2022, 09:34:06 AM »
He can actually play shortstop so that’s something
When I read the scouting report the weakness was his arm and that seems true.  He needs a quick release to make up for that.  That seems to lead to him rushing things and some bad throws.  Practice should make him better.  Remember how Trea struggled defensively at first in DC?

Offline Kevrock

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #86: August 28, 2022, 10:17:01 AM »
I don’t remember that tbh, because of blackout absurdity I watch less Nats games than other baseball.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #87: August 30, 2022, 09:58:51 AM »
I think it’s clear the Padres rushed Abrams up because of the Tatis injury. It’s unclear to me why the Nats feel they have to continue to double down on that error.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #88: August 30, 2022, 10:10:39 AM »
I think it’s clear the Padres rushed Abrams up because of the Tatis injury. It’s unclear to me why the Nats feel they have to continue to double down on that error.
He has an .840 OPS in the minors this year.  Unfortunately that has not translated yet to hitting MLB pitching.  Not sure what more time at Triple A would solve.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #89: August 30, 2022, 02:47:44 PM »
He has an .840 OPS in the minors this year.  Unfortunately that has not translated yet to hitting MLB pitching.  Not sure what more time at Triple A would solve.
He played 38 games. He hit .290/.343/.355 in Rochester. Thats the definition of a small sample size. Bryce Harper hit .243/.325/.365 in Triple A before being called up. Scouts put eyes in him, saw the approach and the swing were there, and made the decision.

Anyone with a modicum of baseball knowledge can look at Abrams and go holy freaking crap, why did they let a Double A player on the field.

Theres no reason for him to be up here, flailing at pitching. This isnt going to develop him. Your simply beating him over the head with failures. Yet another catastrophic player development case for Mike Rizzo to hang his hat on.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #90: August 30, 2022, 03:24:42 PM »
He played 38 games. He hit .290/.343/.355 in Rochester. Thats the definition of a small sample size. Bryce Harper hit .243/.325/.365 in Triple A before being called up. Scouts put eyes in him, saw the approach and the swing were there, and made the decision.

Anyone with a modicum of baseball knowledge can look at Abrams and go holy freaking crap, why did they let a Double A player on the field.

Theres no reason for him to be up here, flailing at pitching. This isnt going to develop him. Your simply beating him over the head with failures. Yet another catastrophic player development case for Mike Rizzo to hang his hat on.
The numbers I cited included his time in the Padres system this year.  No one is expecting him to be Bryce Harper. You said Garcia needed more time in the minors to learn to hit and you were obviously wrong. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #91: August 30, 2022, 04:09:49 PM »
The numbers I cited included his time in the Padres system this year.  No one is expecting him to be Bryce Harper. You said Garcia needed more time in the minors to learn to hit and you were obviously wrong.

El Paso is an extreme hitter's park, as are a number of the road parks in that league.  The fact that the Padres' AA and AAA parks are both launching pads is one of the things that made me very hesitant about dealing with their prospects.  There's just not much good way of assessing the numbers, which throws you all back to traditional scouting.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #92: August 30, 2022, 04:18:05 PM »
El Paso is an extreme hitter's park, as are a number of the road parks in that league.
Sure but his stats were still impressive there.  I believe someone said you adjust OBP .20 points down.  I added that because he had 30 games there versus just 8 in Rochester.  The latter is the definition of small sample size.  He also has much better stats in San Diego versus DC.  Let's see how he does the last 6 weeks or so.  At this point if they had kept him in Rochester he would be coming up soon anyway. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #93: August 30, 2022, 04:19:17 PM »
Sure but his stats were still impressive there.  I believe someone said you adjust OBP .20 points down.  I added that because he had 30 games there versus just 8 in Rochester.  The latter is the definition of small sample size.  He also has much better stats in San Diego versus DC.  Let's see how he does the last 6 weeks or so.  At this point if they had kept him in Rochester he would be coming up soon anyway.

I think he'd be coming up too, but remember September call ups are literally 2 dudes now, not a total free for all like they were in the past.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #94: August 30, 2022, 04:32:04 PM »
I think he'd be coming up too, but remember September call ups are literally 2 dudes now, not a total free for all like they were in the past.
They could not continue with Garcia defensively at SS also which I am sure was a factor.  Eventually he has to learn to hit MLB pitching.  I figure he is also pressing now with added pressure after the trade. 

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Re: MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon
« Reply #95: August 30, 2022, 04:34:33 PM »
They could not continue with Garcia defensively at SS also which I am sure was a factor.  Eventually he has to learn to hit MLB pitching.  I figure he is also pressing now with added pressure after the trade.

Probably all true.  And he was advertised as basically being MLB-ready, which is dubiously true.  I wish I were smart enough to figure things like this out, but there's a reason I'm a spectator.

Offline Slateman

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #96: August 30, 2022, 05:55:36 PM »
The numbers I cited included his time in the Padres system this year.  No one is expecting him to be Bryce Harper. You said Garcia needed more time in the minors to learn to hit and you were obviously wrong. 
Garcia is a barely league average bat whom MLB has already figured out how to exploit. Not only was I right, but he should have in the minors.

I brought up Harper to show how worthless Triple A stats are. Anyone with eyes could have seen how unprepared he was.

El Paso is an extreme hitter's park, as are a number of the road parks in that league.  The fact that the Padres' AA and AAA parks are both launching pads is one of the things that made me very hesitant about dealing with their prospects.  There's just not much good way of assessing the numbers, which throws you all back to traditional scouting.
He posted a 115 wRC+ in El Paso. Kieboom posted a 123 wRC+ on the west coast Triple A circuit.

They could not continue with Garcia defensively at SS also which I am sure was a factor.  Eventually he has to learn to hit MLB pitching.  I figure he is also pressing now with added pressure after the trade. 
We had other options. This was forced by a desperate front office and its backfiring tremendously

Offline Kevrock

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #97: August 30, 2022, 06:05:55 PM »
Nats FO doesn't care about MLB wins. This was done because they thought he was ready, or would benefit more from seeing MLB pitching the rest of the year. They aren't going to make "desperate" moves on someone like Abrams.

I don't agree that this is certainly bad for development. Exposure to tougher pitching can stimulate growth. MLB is a different ballgame, but the game starts to slow down eventually. Even if he starts next year in AAA, for example, the extended coffee cup could lead to better development in the off-season, ST, and as he gets rolling next year.

My concerns with our player dev are much more holistic, not with tactical decisions like promotion timing. Do we have the coaching and the tools to advance a player's development or don't we? That's what it will come down to.

Offline imref

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #98: August 30, 2022, 06:08:50 PM »
he took some really good swings in the last game I saw. Give him time.

You know, the Orioles once had a young shortstop who after getting a cup of coffee at age 20, and posting a .128 BA in his first 23 games, posted .236 /.270 / .376 in his first 50 games the following year.

He turned out OK, and he played an awful lot of consecutive games. :)

Offline Slateman

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #99: August 30, 2022, 06:14:41 PM »
Nats FO doesn't care about MLB wins. This was done because they thought he was ready, or would benefit more from seeing MLB pitching the rest of the year. They aren't going to make "desperate" moves on someone like Abrams.

I don't agree that this is certainly bad for development. Exposure to tougher pitching can stimulate growth. MLB is a different ballgame, but the game starts to slow down eventually. Even if he starts next year in AAA, for example, the extended coffee cup could lead to better development in the off-season, ST, and as he gets rolling next year.

My concerns with our player dev are much more holistic, not with tactical decisions like promotion timing. Do we have the coaching and the tools to advance a player's development or don't we? That's what it will come down to.
Who thought he was ready? That person should be fired on the spot.