Author Topic: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle  (Read 3091 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #100: September 05, 2022, 10:15:34 AM »
oddity?

since the Nats called up CJ on 8/15, the Nats record is 9-9.

Also, prior to 8/15, the Nat pitchers BABIP against was .305.  I think that a fair rough proxy for team fielding behind the pitchers.  They ranked 4th worst in the majors.  Since 8/15, admittedly a super-short sampling size, their BABIP against is .253, 4th best in the majors.  Some of that is Vargas, I think, some of that is getting Yadiel out of the field, but a good chunk of that is finally having a rangy real fielder in the most important defensive position. Still has issues with the arm, I suppose.  Robles full-time in CF probably helps too instead of sharing time with Thomas. I don't think there's a drop off in D from Bell and Soto to Voit and Meneses. The only defensive downgrade might be Garcia in place of Cesar.

Offline Slateman

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #101: September 05, 2022, 10:23:14 AM »
I mean, we basically replaced two terrible defenders with two average to above average defenders.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #102: September 05, 2022, 10:38:13 AM »
I mean, we basically replaced two terrible defenders with two average to above average defenders.
I'd say 3+ bad defenders - Garcia at short, Franco at 3rd, Yadi in left, and Thomas when he played CF.  At the very least, Robles full-time is an upgrade over giving Thomas time in CF, and even if Franco charitably can be said to be average or a bit below this (slightly negative by a few measures), Vargas is big upgrade.

Gotta feel for the pitching staff.   They aren't great shakes, but to have put up with that bad defense all year. It's not even the glaring errors as much as the range.  Forced them to pitch away from contact. When you have guys with nibbling tendencies, it is just negative reinforcement.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #103: September 05, 2022, 12:59:13 PM »
Who thought he was ready? That person should be fired on the spot.

Ok.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #104: September 05, 2022, 01:49:04 PM »
Who thought he was ready? That person should be fired on the spot.
Rizzo.


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #106: September 05, 2022, 06:51:17 PM »
https://twitter.com/nationals/status/1566920401850175489?s=21&t=ttVJWxZKFpEFP-AaqIr8LA


In fairness to Slate, before the ballgame on 8/30 seems to be the break in Abrams offense.  Slate's reverse mojo working again, just like 2019.

Offline DCsOwn

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #107: September 05, 2022, 07:16:35 PM »
In fairness to Slate, before the ballgame on 8/30 seems to be the break in Abrams offense.  Slate's reverse mojo working again, just like 2019.

Up to four hits on the day now. Happy for the kid. Needs to add power obviously, but the outline is still there of a high end contributor.

https://twitter.com/granthpaulsen/status/1566928264353947648?s=21&t=ttVJWxZKFpEFP-AaqIr8LA

Offline Smithian

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #108: September 05, 2022, 07:23:39 PM »
I feel it’s disingenuous to jump on Slate. Even if I’m high on Abrams, he did a lot to dissuade that opinion.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #109: September 05, 2022, 07:25:43 PM »
It's not like he hit well in SD, either. Nice hot streak, hope it lasts the month.  Darnell Coles's prize pupil?

Offline Slateman

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #110: September 05, 2022, 07:28:24 PM »
Lol, one day. He sucks until he can put together a decent week.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #111: September 05, 2022, 07:28:33 PM »
I feel it’s disingenuous to jump on Slate. Even if I’m high on Abrams, he did a lot to dissuade that opinion.
LOL.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #112: September 05, 2022, 07:30:41 PM »
Lol, one day. He sucks until he can put together a decent week.
He’s hitting .364 in his last six games. Try for two weeks. Which is fine. Unfortunately you declared him a bust after a couple of games.

Offline imref

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #113: September 05, 2022, 07:50:43 PM »
This is a much different team with Abrams at short.

Offline Slateman

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #114: September 05, 2022, 07:51:32 PM »
He’s hitting .364 in his last six games. Try for two weeks. Which is fine. Unfortunately you declared him a bust after a couple of games.
.264 the previous 5 games.

Pretty sure I can find a good game for Robles too

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #115: September 05, 2022, 08:07:26 PM »
.264 the previous 5 games.

Pretty sure I can find a good game for Robles too
ooohhhh . . . That will take a while.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #116: September 05, 2022, 08:20:34 PM »
.264 the previous 5 games.

Pretty sure I can find a good game for Robles too
So .264 is not good for a young SS?  His at bats are getting better. That is clear.

Offline welch

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #117: September 05, 2022, 08:25:48 PM »
.264 the previous 5 games.

Pretty sure I can find a good game for Robles too

Can anyone find an eleven game stretch, this year or last, when Robles hit well?

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #118: September 05, 2022, 09:06:19 PM »
Lol, one day. He sucks until he can put together a decent week.

He’s hitting much better dude. He’s young and developing. This is what we need to happen.

Offline Slateman

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #119: September 05, 2022, 09:24:12 PM »
Can anyone find an eleven game stretch, this year or last, when Robles hit well?
Nope. Kind of my point

He’s hitting much better dude. He’s young and developing. This is what we need to happen.
Not really. We needed this to happen in Rochester

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #120: September 06, 2022, 09:00:41 AM »

Not really. We needed this to happen in Rochester
Well, while he only got 183 PAs in AA last year and 186 in AAA this year, he hit well at both levels.  Power didn't show up at Rochester might be the only quibble.  There may have been value in letting him get more PAs in Rochester (only 35) until his pop started to show more.

It is probably rushed a bit.  Dude isn't even 22.  Are we that desperate that we need him to learn at the MLB level when he's had basically a half a year in the high minors?  Since when has sticking in the majors at 22 or 23 been a sign of failure? I/M/O, you bring up 21 year olds if they've shown there's nothing left to learn in the high minors or there's a specific need.  Turner, for example, had his first call up at 22 for the end of the season pinch running in 2015 (questionable, I/M/O) after 500 PAs of better performance in the high minors and in the middle of a pennant race.

Offline Slateman

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #121: September 06, 2022, 09:52:44 AM »
Well, while he only got 183 PAs in AA last year and 186 in AAA this year, he hit well at both levels.  Power didn't show up at Rochester might be the only quibble.  There may have been value in letting him get more PAs in Rochester (only 35) until his pop started to show more.

It is probably rushed a bit.  Dude isn't even 22.  Are we that desperate that we need him to learn at the MLB level when he's had basically a half a year in the high minors?  Since when has sticking in the majors at 22 or 23 been a sign of failure? I/M/O, you bring up 21 year olds if they've shown there's nothing left to learn in the high minors or there's a specific need.  Turner, for example, had his first call up at 22 for the end of the season pinch running in 2015 (questionable, I/M/O) after 500 PAs of better performance in the high minors and in the middle of a pennant race.
But those minor league performances were in offensively charged leagues, except his limited time in Rochester. A simple eye test simply confirms it. With the exception of yesterday, he looks like a deer in the headlights at the plate.

Turner had played college and had 80 more minor league games than Abrams had before their callups. Its a night and day difference.

Between Preller's prospects not panning out and Mike Rizzo's inability over the last ten years to scout and develop talent, I'm just baffled by Abrams call up. These games dont matter. There were other guys who could have played shortstop.

The org gains nothing from this, but is risking turning him into Victor Robles, Addison Russell, or Jarred Kelenic.

Offline Smithian

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #122: September 06, 2022, 10:00:33 AM »
I'm open to concern about CJ Abrams, because this organization has not earned the right to be trusted recently. They're a better team with him up simply because he stabilizes short stop. The team as a whole has benefitted. But I worry he may develop bad habits swinging out of his shoes versus trying to be a professional hitter.

Over his last 7 games, he is slashing .391/.440/.522. That's not sustainable. But if he could get finish strong enough to get his OPS above .600, I think you could call his rookie season a success and have decent hopes for next year.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #123: September 06, 2022, 10:12:46 AM »
But those minor league performances were in offensively charged leagues, except his limited time in Rochester. A simple eye test simply confirms it. With the exception of yesterday, he looks like a deer in the headlights at the plate.

Turner had played college and had 80 more minor league games than Abrams had before their callups. Its a night and day difference.

Between Preller's prospects not panning out and Mike Rizzo's inability over the last ten years to scout and develop talent, I'm just baffled by Abrams call up. These games dont matter. There were other guys who could have played shortstop.

The org gains nothing from this, but is risking turning him into Victor Robles, Addison Russell, or Jarred Kelenic.
Turner's path I think was the better approach.  A year in high minors showing no more time is needed. Abrams might be a higher pick, but he's younger and has had less time in the high minors.  He's the one who probably needed more time, yet Turner was older and spent more time in the high minors.

I will not blow off what Abrams did in the SD system as "it's just in offense-crazy leagues."  He's league adjusted numbers still showed him above-average, maxing at 115 wRC+.  It's just Turner was > 140 wRC+ in AA and 126 in AAA.  As you say, no comparison in terms of track record in the high minors.  He does seem rushed for no particular need.

Offline Smithian

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Re: CJ Abrams: Our new man in the middle
« Reply #124: September 06, 2022, 10:43:47 AM »
I don't think he has to be Trea Turner for this to be a success.

Look at Ian Desmond's first couple full time seasons. It wasn't pretty. Sometimes it just takes time.