Author Topic: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)  (Read 56910 times)

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Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1650 on: July 21, 2018, 01:48:00 pm »
guys just don't do that any more

Offline Air Desmond

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1651 on: July 21, 2018, 02:19:13 pm »
Riggleman w/ the Reds: 40-39

Davey w/ the Nats: 48-49

Not much to read into there. Just pointing out that the Reds are essentially playing at the same level as the Nats with considerably less talent.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1652 on: July 21, 2018, 02:44:00 pm »
The camel thing seems to have been a gimmick. The "reset" yesterday, with each player having "Nationals" on the back of their tee-shirt, seems like another gimmick. This team seemed un-focused in April and lousy in June and July. No other way to see it: a .500 team, third best in the NL East, facing better teams in Philadelphia and Atlanta.

Rehire Dusty for a push in 2019?

Only if we can replace him in the playoffs.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1653 on: July 21, 2018, 03:16:50 pm »
Talent is as talent does. I'm not so sure that the Nats are so loaded. We're getting old and gimpy.

Riggleman w/ the Reds: 40-39

Davey w/ the Nats: 48-49

Not much to read into there. Just pointing out that the Reds are essentially playing at the same level as the Nats with considerably less talent.

Offline dracnal

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1654 on: July 22, 2018, 12:30:05 am »
At the top level of sports, you hear athletes talking about the 'flow' or the 'zone' all the time. When they are at their best, they play at a different level completely. It is absolutely true that the manager can affect that. If they don't trust the manager or don't respect him, don't like the line ups, question decisions, etc., they are going to find it harder to hit that sublime level of performance. It seems like some managers can make it easier to get to that state. Dusty in the regular season comes to mind. It seems that Dave is more about the 'Aw shucks guys. Let's just love the game and try hard!' approach.

Intangibles will always be up for debate and of course no professional (or most amateurs) is going to go in with a 'Screw it. I'm not bothering today,' approach to things. They are paid to play and get paid based on their performance. But a horrible environment will absolutely drain morale, and it's extremely hard to perform at your peak with morale issues in the clubhouse. THAT is what a manager is paid to do. Foster the best environment and highest morale, regardless of performance, record, or current position in the standings. I think it's easy for the players to like Dave, but I don't think he's got the talent (yet?) to keep the clubhouse on an even keel and highest morale in the face of adversity. He's Williams 2.0 at best.

Offline ToddGack

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1655 on: July 22, 2018, 08:32:56 pm »
WTF does your HS Baseball days have to do with this?

Do you honestly think you, as a child not respecting someone or caring about your poor performance is similar to the Washington Nationals? The Roster of professional athletes?

Members of the clubhouse give a crap. Even if Dave isn't respected, they are still held accountable by themselves and teammates. Because they are professionals.

You have a classic fan attitude and your previous experience of being a bratty HS Baseball player isn't allowing you an insider viewpoints.

When guys step into the batters box, on the field, or on the mound, they aren't thinking I'd care if we had a better manager. They aren't thinking who gives a crap when they cause an error or strikeout.

That's the attitude of minimum wage workers who have history of being unreliable. Not you average professional athlete.

If you didn't care that you were letting your team down because you couldn't respect your coach, then mistakes were made raising you as a child. Hopefully you don't have that same attitude now in your adult professional life.

If you do then that's your issue. But the players in that clubhouse hold themselves to much higher standards than that.

Included in your post is:
"your previous experience of being a bratty HS Baseball player" and that my mother and father were poor parents.
Just another unsolicited attack by you. Go ahead and tell everyone that I am to blame for whatever happens going forward.

I never said that our team didn't care. We all tried as hard as we could or we believed we were giving it our all. Years after, we would talk and ask why we played so well for one coach and not the other. We all agreed that one coach held us accountable and the other didn't. If you played any kind of organized sports you would know that there are coaches that can motivate and get the best out of you and other coaches that aren't so good at it. MLB players are not above being able to be motivated. Among the "bratty HS Baseball players" that were on that team, 3 including myself went on to play in college and I went on to play 2 years of minor league ball, so my experience is quite a bit more than yours. I'm not saying you have to have played the game to know the game but there are some parts of the game that you can only know by playing. There are many good posters on here and I doubt that most have had a lot of experience nor do they need it to know what they are talking about.
Besides all of the posts where you attack someone you also have many endless posts that nobody can understand.
You can't seem to admit that Martinez is not doing a good job.
Chelsea Janes article said the relievers blamed Martinez for Kintzler and Madson being on the DL and that he caused Solis's performance to suffer enough that he ended up at AAA. She also said that everyone likes Martinez the person but question Martinez the manager. A manager is being blamed for injuring players and having players question his ability to manage and your response is that you didn't think the article was negative toward Martinez?
Gio averaged 112 pitches per game in 5 of the 6 games he pitched from 4/29 to 5/28  and had an ERA of 2.10 on May 28. Since then he has pitched in 8 games with an ERA of 6.51.
Roark averaged 110 pitches per game in 6 games from 4/24 to 5/26 and had a 3.17 ERA on  May 26. Since then he has pitched in 10 games with a 7.11 ERA.
Should be easy to figure out what caused the problem. You see a stat and that's all you are able to see but some on here can see if you dig deeper into a stat it might tell a different story. A pitcher that throws 3200 pitches in 32 games and averages 100 pitches per game one year doesn't necessarily mean the same if he has thrown 1000 pitches after 10 games the next year. It's how he got there. A pitcher could theoretically throw 75 pitches in each of his first 5 games and 125 pitches in each of the next 5. That's the same 100 pitches per game average that he had the year before but an entirely different story if you look into it. Roark's and Gio's pitch counts obviously aren't quite that extreme but averaging 110 pitches per game for a month does take a toll and their numbers show that.
Like I said before, I'm willing to let it go but you can keep telling everyone what a great job Martinez is doing and you can keep telling us about your supernatural ability to know what players are thinking if you want?
After many bad posts this is probably a new low for you.

Sorry to everyone for the length of this post, I know how annoying long posts can be.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1656 on: July 22, 2018, 08:57:54 pm »
Included in your post is:
"your previous experience of being a bratty HS Baseball player" and that my mother and father were poor parents.
Just another unsolicited attack by you. Go ahead and tell everyone that I am to blame for whatever happens going forward.

I never said that our team didn't care. We all tried as hard as we could or we believed we were giving it our all. Years after, we would talk and ask why we played so well for one coach and not the other. We all agreed that one coach held us accountable and the other didn't. If you played any kind of organized sports you would know that there are coaches that can motivate and get the best out of you and other coaches that aren't so good at it. MLB players are not above being able to be motivated. Among the "bratty HS Baseball players" that were on that team, 3 including myself went on to play in college and I went on to play 2 years of minor league ball, so my experience is quite a bit more than yours. I'm not saying you have to have played the game to know the game but there are some parts of the game that you can only know by playing. There are many good posters on here and I doubt that most have had a lot of experience nor do they need it to know what they are talking about.
Besides all of the posts where you attack someone you also have many endless posts that nobody can understand.
You can't seem to admit that Martinez is not doing a good job.
Chelsea Janes article said the relievers blamed Martinez for Kintzler and Madson being on the DL and that he caused Solis's performance to suffer enough that he ended up at AAA. She also said that everyone likes Martinez the person but question Martinez the manager. A manager is being blamed for injuring players and having players question his ability to manage and your response is that you didn't think the article was negative toward Martinez?
Gio averaged 112 pitches per game in 5 of the 6 games he pitched from 4/29 to 5/28  and had an ERA of 2.10 on May 28. Since then he has pitched in 8 games with an ERA of 6.51.
Roark averaged 110 pitches per game in 6 games from 4/24 to 5/26 and had a 3.17 ERA on  May 26. Since then he has pitched in 10 games with a 7.11 ERA.
Should be easy to figure out what caused the problem. You see a stat and that's all you are able to see but some on here can see if you dig deeper into a stat it might tell a different story. A pitcher that throws 3200 pitches in 32 games and averages 100 pitches per game one year doesn't necessarily mean the same if he has thrown 1000 pitches after 10 games the next year. It's how he got there. A pitcher could theoretically throw 75 pitches in each of his first 5 games and 125 pitches the next 5. That's the same 100 pitches per game average that he had the year before but an entirely different story if you look into it. Roark's and Gio's pitch counts obviously aren't quite that extreme but averaging 110 pitches per game for a month does take a toll and their numbers show that.
Like I said before, I'm willing to let it go but you can keep telling everyone what a great job Martinez is doing and you can keep telling us about your supernatural ability to know what players are thinking if you want?
After many bad posts this is probably a new low for you.

Sorry to everyone for the length of this post, I know how annoying long posts can be.

TL:DR

JK I did

Perhaps that explains why you didn't advance beyond that?

I was a site manager for 13 years. Last job was a Branch Manager at a Bank. It doesn't mean I understand Dave's job.

You may want to reread the Chelsea article. It also mentions that there are a ton of relievers that have seen more work than anyone in Nats bullpen. And admits that never will everyone be happy. I think it said 60 other bullpen arms in the league have seen more work... I could be wrong about that. And I already posted 2017 vs 2018 Max, Gio, Tanner, Doo, Madson, and Kintz at ASB. Was almost the same expect A) Doo seen more in 2018 because he was DL for a month in 2017 and B) Gio actually seen more in 2017 than in 2018. The other 4 was same pace.

They called me crazy when they were down by 9 and I said they were gonna win

They called me crazy when I said Manny to Dodgers back in early May

However I would be more liked here if I made a second account and farted on a snare drum while bad mouthing Dave and the Nats. I ain't bad mouthing Dave and the Nats. I don't have a snare drum.

And it shows how little you actually read my posts. Just because I don't think Dave is making constant bad decisions doesn't mean I think he's making good ones. It's just that I know why they have lost games.



Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1657 on: July 22, 2018, 09:00:28 pm »
hey guys, you both have decent perspectives.  Can you make your points without tearing into each other personally?

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1658 on: July 22, 2018, 09:08:16 pm »
hey guys, you both have decent perspectives.  Can you make your points without tearing into each other personally?

Thing is, I didn't think i was being crappy to him. I was told by a few I was. I said sorry.

But just because he quit, doesn't mean they quit.

Are they frustrated, yes. But they haven't quit. And they know the reasons they have lost games.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1659 on: July 23, 2018, 01:49:12 pm »
Thing is, I didn't think i was being crappy to him. I was told by a few I was. I said sorry.


You were, you could have made your point without making it personal. 

I appreciated Todd sharing his personal opinion, and even though I didn't buy all of it this is what a forum should be about. 

hey guys, you both have decent perspectives.  Can you make your points without tearing into each other personally?

Just another way of saying this.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1660 on: July 23, 2018, 02:33:41 pm »
You were, you could have made your point without making it personal. 

I appreciated Todd sharing his personal opinion, and even though I didn't buy all of it this is what a forum should be about. 

Just another way of saying this.

Who's trying to stop him or anyones opinion from being posted? I just thought his post was dumb and I said so. But I didn't try to stop him from saying it.

Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1661 on: July 23, 2018, 02:55:35 pm »

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1662 on: July 23, 2018, 04:33:19 pm »
I see Zimmerman is batting fourth today.   I really don't like that move at all, and his lineups have driven me crazy all year.   Rendon batting behind Harper looked like it was working really well yesterday, and Rendon gives Harper the protection he needs.  Having Zimmerman behind him in going to mean automatic walk and DPs all night.   Harper seemed to be getting some momentum back, why mess with things! 

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1663 on: July 23, 2018, 04:37:10 pm »
I see Zimmerman is batting fourth today.   I really don't like that move at all, and his lineups have driven me crazy all year.   Rendon batting behind Harper looked like it was working really well yesterday, and Rendon gives Harper the protection he needs.  Having Zimmerman behind him in going to mean automatic walk and DPs all night.   Harper seemed to be getting some momentum back, why mess with things! 

I better break out the rum.

Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1664 on: July 23, 2018, 04:49:13 pm »
Zimmerman is batting cleanup tonight. Martinez is a Super Idiot. No wonder this team...

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1665 on: July 23, 2018, 04:54:07 pm »
Unreal.

I see Zimmerman is batting fourth today.   I really don't like that move at all, and his lineups have driven me crazy all year.   Rendon batting behind Harper looked like it was working really well yesterday, and Rendon gives Harper the protection he needs.  Having Zimmerman behind him in going to mean automatic walk and DPs all night.   Harper seemed to be getting some momentum back, why mess with things!

Offline ZimW1N

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1666 on: July 23, 2018, 05:02:07 pm »
So the team has it's best offensive performance in weeks and Martinez immediately changes the line up. Sigh.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1667 on: July 23, 2018, 05:04:29 pm »
Unreal.

I'm trying to make sense of this too.  Only think I can think of is he wants to give Zimmerman maximum protection.  With Soto and Murphy following, he achieves that to some degree.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1668 on: July 23, 2018, 05:11:12 pm »
kowtowing to Zimmerman's ego :smh:

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1669 on: July 23, 2018, 05:30:16 pm »
Maybe Martinez is batting him 4th because he personally injected him with his 'roids today :stir:

Offline NatNasty

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1670 on: July 23, 2018, 05:56:12 pm »
Zimm is hitting .165 against righties, so this is clearly the smart move.


Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1671 on: July 23, 2018, 05:59:12 pm »
need to get him started on those 100 AB's so he can be good to go for the stretch run

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1672 on: July 23, 2018, 06:01:37 pm »
It's a thought, I guess.

I'm trying to make sense of this too.  Only think I can think of is he wants to give Zimmerman maximum protection.  With Soto and Murphy following, he achieves that to some degree.

Online imref

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1673 on: July 23, 2018, 06:01:58 pm »
I'm trying to make sense of this too.  Only think I can think of is he wants to give Zimmerman maximum protection.  With Soto and Murphy following, he achieves that to some degree.

It's almost August and Davey still doesn't have a set lineup.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1674 on: July 23, 2018, 06:04:52 pm »
It's almost August and Davey still doesn't have a set lineup.

Our hitters haven't give him really any reason to stick with one lineup, to be fair.

Batting Zimm 4th does not make any sense to me.