PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Yeah, sure, the sweep is nice and all, but I just saw a graphic on MASN Nationals that showed how most players on the Nationals roster are eating grilled cheese sandwiches without tomato soup on their road trips.

This all goes back Captain Camel.  A real manager would provide better oversight with respect to his players' meal choices.

FIRE MARTINEZ!

[GburgNatsFan]

Fire his ass.

Yeah, sure, the sweep is nice and all, but I just saw a graphic on MASN Nationals that showed how most players on the Nationals roster are eating grilled cheese sandwiches without tomato soup on their road trips.

This all goes back Captain Camel.  A real manager would provide better oversight with respect to his players' meal choices.

FIRE MARTINEZ!

[mitlen]

Yeah, sure, the sweep is nice and all, but I just saw a graphic on MASN Nationals that showed how most players on the Nationals roster are eating grilled cheese sandwiches without tomato soup on their road trips.

This all goes back Captain Camel.  A real manager would provide better oversight with respect to his players' meal choices.

FIRE MARTINEZ!

...  ain't it samiches?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

...  ain't it samiches?

Must be a western PA thing.

[Count Walewski]

So the 2018 Nationals are doing that thing again where a lot of the good players are injured or slumping, and the bench players are stepping up and performing well. When this happened in 2016 and 2017, a lot of us, myself included, credited this to Dusty Baker's skills at managing and motivating the bench guys, working them into games, etc.

[GburgNatsFan]

So the 2018 Nationals are doing that thing again where a lot of the good players are injured or slumping, and the bench players are stepping up and performing well. When this happened in 2016 and 2017, a lot of us, myself included, credited this to Dusty Baker's skills at managing and motivating the bench guys, working them into games, etc.

This bench is better. Rizzo did a great job. Now, focus on the bullpen, Mike.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

So the 2018 Nationals are doing that thing again where a lot of the good players are injured or slumping, and the bench players are stepping up and performing well. When this happened in 2016 and 2017, a lot of us, myself included, credited this to Dusty Baker's skills at managing and motivating the bench guys, working them into games, etc.

Big deal!  Any putz could manage guys like Andrew Stevenson, Matt Adams, Mark Reynolds, Moises Sierra, Trevor Gott, and Jeremy Hellickson to a 24-18 record.

We have to get rid of this Jim Zorn wannabe before it's too late.

[mitlen]

Big deal!  Any putz could manage guys like Andrew Stevenson, Matt Adams, Mark Reynolds, Moises Sierra, Trevor Gott, and Jeremy Hellickson to a 24-18 record.

We have to get rid of this Jim Zorn wannabe before it's too late.

We see what you did there.

[UMDNats]

Big deal!  Any putz could manage guys like Andrew Stevenson, Matt Adams, Mark Reynolds, Moises Sierra, Trevor Gott, and Jeremy Hellickson to a 24-18 record.

We have to get rid of this Jim Zorn wannabe before it's too late.

Dusty Baker would have MAT hitting .350 with 10 homers.

I don't care what anyone says. It is a fact in my mind.

[ToddGack]

Opponent batting average against Hellickson is something like .111 the first two times, and over .600 the third.  Saying he’s not successful the third time through the lineup is an understatement. A manager’s job is to set the players up for success, and in the curious case of Jeremy Hellickson, that means being quick with the hook, and getting him out of there before the trouble begins, not after. Absolutely the right move, even if he’s thrown only 55 pitches and not given up any runs.

I posted this on tonight's game thread. Sunday 5/13

Kind of misleading. 3rd time facing hitters:
This year______ 7 for 12 = .583
Career______ 293 for 1062 = .276
2016__________46 for 182 = .253

Making decisions based on 12 ABs is not smart.
Hellickson was offered and took the $17M QO after his 2016 season and has shown he can go through a lineup 3 times when he is pitching well. He has been pitching well and should be given the opportunity to throw more than 50 or 60 pitches and save the bullpen.
Martinez has shown that he is not smart enough to make decisions based on what is happening right in front of him and instead is making decisions based on 12 ABs that happened in the past. In my opinion I don't think being a bench coach qualifies you to be a manager any more than doing what FP or Bob does. I think it's better to have experience being a MLB or minor league manager making decisions instead of watching someone else do it.  Martinez spends too much time trying to be one of the guys in the clubhouse and too much time seeking attention the rest of the time. I haven't seen one thing that makes me think he is a MLB manager.

[Greg_SRT]

What’s J.H. numbers for 2017 going through the lineup a third time?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Here are the numbers last year, according to b-ref (formatted as avg/obp/slg):

1st time: 270 PA, .217/.251/.390
2nd time: 264 PA, .274/.344/.513
3rd time: 159 PA, .296/.365/.669

That last line is hideous, so you can see where the fear comes from.

[Natsinpwc]

Here are the numbers last year, according to b-ref (formatted as avg/obp/slg):

1st time: 270 PA, .217/.251/.390
2nd time: 264 PA, .274/.344/.513
3rd time: 159 PA, .296/.365/.669

That last line is hideous, so you can see where the fear comes from.

The second time through is not good either. I've posted this a few times before but after a strong first couple of years it has been downhill for him except for 2016. And now 2018 so far.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hellije01.shtml

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Is a 100+ pitch per start pace sustainable?

I think that is one of the most incredible graphics I've seen in a baseball game in a while. It is as much a damn on the bullpen as it is a credit to the starters.  The rotation, especially Scherzer and the Starter Formerly Known as the Orchid, might think they are "strong like bull," but bulls don't pitch 7 months like we hope these guys will.  There's a desperate need to develop some credible depth in the pen.  Slate used to talk about "Dusty-proofing" the bullpen (i.e., making the decisions on who and when to bring in relief automatic so that Dusty would have fewer strategic calls in the playoffs).  I don't know if the pitch load needs Davey-proofing or is a "Fire Rizzo / can anyone find a fireman when you need it?" moment.

[varoadking]

1989, at age 42, Nolan Ryan averaged 127 pitches a game...

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/shea/article/Nolan-Ryan-king-of-pitch-counts-4537195.php

[JCA-CrystalCity]

The second time through is not good either. I've posted this a few times before but after a strong first couple of years it has been downhill for him except for 2016. And now 2018 so far.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hellije01.shtml

yes, you have to be careful in quoting Hellickson career stats.  He was a ROY and one of the best AL starters, then fell off after a few years.  When he rebounded, he had this pattern of success early in games.  You couple that with virtually every starter being worse 3d time through, then you have something to plan around.  Hellickson is also slotted in after the two bulls who save bullpen innings, so you can plan around Kintzler, Madson, and Doolittle all not having worked both of the prior two games.  It didn't work last night, but it is not a bad plan.

As for Scherzer's pitch count, the only thing I'd add is that many folks thought he wore down late in the season the past couple of years, so I would not be so content to say "he's done this before."

Looking at that list of pitchers, I would not say Danny Duffy's pitch count is a sign of a good year.

[HalfSmokes]

1989, at age 42, Nolan Ryan averaged 127 pitches a game...

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/shea/article/Nolan-Ryan-king-of-pitch-counts-4537195.php

All we need is our guys to pitch likeone of the greatest and most durable players in the history of the game- seems doable

[varoadking]

All we need is our guys to pitch likeone of the greatest and most durable players in the history of the game- seems doable

Where did I say that?

[HalfSmokes]

Where did I say that?

If Ryan can do it surely, max can, or maybe Ryan is just an absurd outlier

[varoadking]

If Ryan can do it surely, max can, or maybe Ryan is just an absurd outlier

Not sure what you are quibbling about...I posted a stat.  Do you dispute the stat?

[NJ Ave]

We have 4 veteran starters who are healthy and pitching well. Why on earth would we be concerned about them pitching 100 pitches a start while they're healthy and pitching well? That's what they're supposed to do.

[HalfSmokes]

Not sure what you are quibbling about...I posted a stat.  Do you dispute the stat?

not at all, it's a great useful stat. If Ryan can do it, no reason that it isn't totally relevant for our starters, they just need to man up

[varoadking]

not at all, it's a great useful stat. If Ryan can do it, no reason that it isn't totally relevant for our starters, they just need to man up

That seems kind of silly really...why would you suppose that?

[HalfSmokes]

That seems kind of silly really...why would you suppose that?

it's almost like what Ryan did is in no way relevant to the 2018 nats

[varoadking]

it's almost like what Ryan did is in no way relevant to the 2018 nats

Of course it isn't...why would you think it was?