PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2017)

[LoveAngelos]

Ownership specializes in gong cheap in an area they want to go cheap in by hiring people anxious for the job in question whether it be a manager of the baseball team or manager of some mall somewhere

[PowerBoater69]

I love how PowerTroller insinuated that Martinez will struggle to manage the Nats' young star players and then posted an excerpt that demonstrates that he had an excellent working relationship with the Rays' young stars.  Brilliant!

Easy to be everyone's friend when you're not the boss. Lots of guys fail to make the jump and have to keep a professional distance. Maybe Martinez will be fine, but why roll the dice with a contending team? This is the type of hire you make to ride out a rebuild.

[Smithian]

Easy to be everyone's friend when you're not the boss. Lots of guys fail to make the jump and have to keep a professional distance. Maybe Martinez will be fine, but why roll the dice with a contending team? This is the type of hire you make to ride out a rebuild.

True.

Someone should tell Dave Martinez to hire a bench coach who can be a buffer between players and manager. I bet he will forget to do if not reminded.

[Ray D]

I thought Dusty learned spanish.

Dusty was a renaissance man.  I'd be surprised if he didn't speak Spanish.

[PowerBoater69]

Dusty was a renaissance man.  I'd be surprised if he didn't speak Spanish.

Played several years of winter ball in the Latino leagues, he claimed to be fluent.

[PowerBoater69]

Ownership specializes in gong cheap in an area they want to go cheap in by hiring people anxious for the job in question whether it be a manager of the baseball team or manager of some mall somewhere

Really entertained by the people applauding this deal as a show of commitment by the Lerners when the salary has not been leaked. No chance they offered more per year than they did for Black or Williams, I'd be surprised if they didn't drop some on the annual salary in order to get the third year. My guess is $2.4-2.7 million guaranteed.

[Mattionals]

For the detractors, are you just Dusty apologists? Do you honestly think his moves or lack thereof didn't contribute to the losses where it counted? Sure you want Werth's to make that catch, or Gio to get out of his jam, but Dusty is the one who put them out there. He didn't challenge the dead ball call. Players have to perform, but the manager needs to do everything he can to put the best team out there and move the pieces when it makes the most sense.

[Ray D]

For the detractors, are you just Dusty apologists?

Not me.

 I'd have dropped him like a hot potato if I thought we would get a manager who's expected success for 2018 exceeds that of Dusty.   I feel that we would have had a better chance to succeed in 2018 with Dusty than with Martinez.  I would not be complaining if we had hired Girardi. (Or any of several managers who are not available, but say for example we were able to lure away Francona or Roberts, I'd b thrilled.)

[PowerBoater69]

For the detractors, are you just Dusty apologists? Do you honestly think his moves or lack thereof didn't contribute to the losses where it counted? Sure you want Werth's to make that catch, or Gio to get out of his jam, but Dusty is the one who put them out there. He didn't challenge the dead ball call. Players have to perform, but the manager needs to do everything he can to put the best team out there and move the pieces when it makes the most sense.

I'm not watching much of the World Series, but every day I'm reading criticism on the decisions by both managers. No easier job in the world to second guess than MLB manager. If you lose you get ripped. Baker turned around a team that under performed in 2015 and won a ton of regular season games. He deserved another shot.

In any case is Martinez an improvement? Who knows? Odds aren't in his favor, a lot more wash outs than geniuses. If I had a team with a shot at the WS I sure as hell wouldn't give the keys to a guy with zero experience.

[Slateman]

Not me.

 I'd have dropped him like a hot potato if I thought we would get a manager who's expected success for 2018 exceeds that of Dusty.   I feel that we would have had a better chance to succeed in 2018 with Dusty than with Martinez.  I would not be complaining if we had hired Girardi. (Or any of several managers who are not available, but say for example we were able to lure away Francona or Roberts, I'd b thrilled.)

Except Dusty was, literally, the worst manager we could go into next season with. Someone who will be really good in the regular season, and make crucial mistake after crucial mistake in the playoffs.

I'd rather have Acta or Matt Williams than Dusty at this point.

[bluestreak]

For the detractors, are you just Dusty apologists? Do you honestly think his moves or lack thereof didn't contribute to the losses where it counted? Sure you want Werth's to make that catch, or Gio to get out of his jam, but Dusty is the one who put them out there. He didn't challenge the dead ball call. Players have to perform, but the manager needs to do everything he can to put the best team out there and move the pieces when it makes the most sense.

So I think these are two different questions. I am not excited about the hire because everyone tells me that this is the last year of a window. It seems silly to risk that on a guy that hasn’t managed one game of baseball at any level. Ever.

I’m a Dusty apologist, I guess. I think he did a good job with a wreck of a clubhouse and basically lost two coin flip game 5’s. Sure he made choices that could be second guessed, but every manager in the postseason has made decisions that could be viewed as bad. All of them.
And I honestly think the Dusty hate is at a level that is not deserved by what’s he’s actually done.
The whole pass ball thing is a perfect example.
From every account, Dusty and Wieters complained about the call and two umpires told them that the rules said they couldn’t challenge and it was a judgement call. And people are saying that it was a reason that Dusty should be fired because he didn’t take it to the third level of going for a “rule check” (which I have never ever actually seen done and no one mentioned for two weeks). This is a forum with at least two distinct threads devoted to individual crappy umpires, but everyone blamed Dusty for this. It’s absurd. I just wish people just admitted that they hate him and that even if the Nats has won the World Series they would have given him zero credit and attributed it to the players.

I think Martinez has the potential to be good. I really hope he is. But I don’t think hiring a guy who’s been passed over multiple times and has zero managing experience is the slam dunk no brainer people here say it is.

[bluestreak]

I'd rather have Acta or Matt Williams than Dusty at this point.

This is patently ridiculous and has got to be trolling.

[Count Walewski]

For the detractors, are you just Dusty apologists? Do you honestly think his moves or lack thereof didn't contribute to the losses where it counted? Sure you want Werth's to make that catch, or Gio to get out of his jam, but Dusty is the one who put them out there. He didn't challenge the dead ball call. Players have to perform, but the manager needs to do everything he can to put the best team out there and move the pieces when it makes the most sense.

I think a lot of these people didn't like Dusty either - they want some perfect manager with five rings who doesn't actually exist and whom the Lerners would never pay the premium for anyway.

[Natsinpwc]

I think a lot of these people didn't like Dusty either - they want some perfect manager with five rings who doesn't actually exist and whom the Lerners would never pay the premium for anyway.

I like Dusty a lot. Good guy. Big improvement over Matt W. However he had two chances in the playoffs and they failed. His moves contributed to the loss. They aren't going to fire all the players.

[nats4ever]

Hate this hire. Baker was respected in the clubhouse, no one is going to give a crap about nobody Dave Martinez. Good luck to him trying to manage guys like Harper, Scherzer, and Strasburg. The Nats might still win the East if everyone else still stinks, but doubtful they win 90 games.


Hopefully his contract is just two years.

Your going to look really silly if Martinez does well.

[varoadking]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone other than Rusty or Werth himself that thought playing Werth over Howie was a sound move.  That was a Matt Williams level of standard decision that cost them the NLDS even is everything else remains unchanged...namely Gio and Max both crapting the bed in the series...
 

[aspenbubba]

Except Dusty was, literally, the worst manager we could go into next season with. Someone who will be really good in the regular season, and make crucial mistake after crucial mistake in the playoffs.

I'd rather have Acta or Matt Williams than Dusty at this point.

Pure hyperbole

[aspenbubba]

I think a lot of these people didn't like Dusty either - they want some perfect manager with five rings who doesn't actually exist and whom the Lerners would never pay the premium for anyway.

How large a difference from Dusty’s 2 mil  and Giardis 4 mil. I’m sure the Lerner’s would pay the difference due to Giardis bona fides.

[Natsinpwc]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone other than Rusty or Werth himself that thought playing Werth over Howie was a sound move.  That was a Matt Williams variety standard decision that cost them the NLDS even is everything else remains unchanged...namely Gio and Max both crapting the bed in the series...
 

^ This. Other than Max. He should have only been brought in to face a batter or two on just two days rest. A guy who relies on a major way on his fastball can't afford to lose a couple MPH and that what happened.  Would have helped if Wieters could catch also. I thought some of the posters here were the only ones crazy enough to think he could pitch longer than that. Unfortunately Dusty and Maddux also thought that way. Max pitched fine in game three and they should have won.

It was a crime of major proportions to end up not giving Howie and Lind more at bats. I believe that Kendrick was 5 for 10 against Quintana and yet did not start that game. Even with his dumb at bat in game 5 Lind was 2 for 3 in the series. Those were two great pickups by Rizzo and Dusty failed to use them enough.

[Natsinpwc]

Your going to look really silly if Martinez does well.

PB probably didn't think they would win 90 games this year either.

[PowerBoater69]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone other than Rusty or Werth himself that thought playing Werth over Howie was a sound move.  That was a Matt Williams level of standard decision that cost them the NLDS even is everything else remains unchanged...namely Gio and Max both crapting the bed in the series...

 
No chance Baker picked those line ups without input from Rizzo. I'd bet my money that batting Werth second came direct from Rizzo.

[Natsinpwc]

 
No chance Baker picked those line ups without input from Rizzo. I'd bet my money that batting Werth second came direct from Rizzo.

No way. In fact I would bet that Rizzo suggested Werth sit and that is why they backed out of any deal they apparently had in place to extend him. Not knowing the rules didn't help either.

[PowerBoater69]

Your going to look really silly if Martinez does well.

Why? It's clearly the wrong decision at this time. But sometimes mistakes work out. Good example is drafting Zimmermann when they should have traded Soriano.

[varoadking]

No way. In fact I would bet that Rizzo suggested Werth sit and that is why they backed out of any deal they apparently had in place to extend him.

Agreed...Rusty had a man crush on Werth...

[Natsinpwc]

Agreed...Rusty had a man crush on Werth...

Scared he would rip the lineup off the wall.