Poll

When should Garcia take over as starting SS?

Should have happened already
4 (28.6%)
6/1
3 (21.4%)
7/1
4 (28.6%)
After ASB
0 (0%)
8/1
2 (14.3%)
9/1 call up
1 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Author Topic: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS (Poll Added)  (Read 7588 times)

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Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #150: April 24, 2022, 04:53:45 PM »
Garcia didn't play Saturday or Sunday but I haven't seen anything about him being injured.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #151: April 26, 2022, 08:45:48 PM »
Two HRs tonight :ballbat:

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #152: April 26, 2022, 10:23:37 PM »
Two HRs tonight :ballbat:

No reason to keep Escobar. Call him up!

Offline Smithian

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #153: April 27, 2022, 10:18:47 AM »
No reason to keep Escobar. Call him up!
I know they're being patient so he is up to stay with him next call up. I say get him to 100 ABs but if at that point he is still crushing the ball they need to call him up. If he has back-to-back seasons of crushing it in Rochester and then scuffling in DC, that is a trend the organization needs to know about.

Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #154: April 27, 2022, 06:08:19 PM »
I know they're being patient so he is up to stay with him next call up. I say get him to 100 ABs but if at that point he is still crushing the ball they need to call him up. If he has back-to-back seasons of crushing it in Rochester and then scuffling in DC, that is a trend the organization needs to know about.

How is his fielding? Looks shaky: four errors in 30 attempts, for .920 fielding %. Alcides, this season, one error in 34 attempts. Lifetime fielding % is .976. Eddie Brinkman's lifetime fielding percentage was about .970.

Garcia's fielding % does not tell us much, although the numbers say he does OK at 2B but is rocky at SS.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=garcia019lui


Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #155: April 27, 2022, 06:12:31 PM »
That is, the Nats could promote Garcia, and Garcia might play 2B almost as well as Hernandez, and might eventually hit like Hernandez, but who plays SS?

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #156: April 27, 2022, 06:23:38 PM »
I'd take Garcia botching a play at a decent clip than old man Alcides lighting tapping out to SS 99% of his at-bats. Rizzo being OK with Escobar as the everyday SS is a fireable offense.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #157: April 27, 2022, 06:58:40 PM »
I'd take Garcia botching a play at a decent clip than old man Alcides lighting tapping out to SS 99% of his at-bats. Rizzo being OK with Escobar as the everyday SS is a fireable offense.
Agree. It’s also bad to jump to any conclusions on 13 Triple A games at SS this year. He has played 4 games at 2B without an error.  But we don’t have any advanced stats on the defense and it’s a small sample size. At this point might as well leave him down there until June when they feel he is ready for SS. Season is lost anyway.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #158: April 27, 2022, 08:34:16 PM »
I think read somewhere that Garcia made those 4 errors in like his first few games and hasn't made an error since.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #159: April 27, 2022, 10:24:56 PM »
Agree. It’s also bad to jump to any conclusions on 13 Triple A games at SS this year. He has played 4 games at 2B without an error.  But we don’t have any advanced stats on the defense and it’s a small sample size. At this point might as well leave him down there until June when they feel he is ready for SS. Season is lost anyway.
We also have a 110 game sample size of abysmal defense at second base

Offline Smithian

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #160: April 28, 2022, 11:05:27 PM »
Another home run today.

If any other AAA prospect was doing this at 21, we would be collectively :az:

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #161: April 28, 2022, 11:35:38 PM »
It’s getting ridiculous that he’s not here.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #162: April 29, 2022, 08:45:53 AM »
It’s getting ridiculous that he’s not here.
It is mostly about the glove, and they want him to dominate for more than 3 weeks.  My guess is mid-May, 1/4 of the season.  Complicating things would be Ehire.  They may give him a little run once he's healthy, sending Luscious back down and sitting Alcides on the bench.

Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #163: April 29, 2022, 09:10:27 AM »
What is Garcia's position if he is promoted? He has been clumsy at 2B, so why assume he can play SS? No, I don't understand why Lucius Fox is not at Harrisburg.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #164: April 29, 2022, 09:11:53 AM »
It is mostly about the glove, and they want him to dominate for more than 3 weeks.  My guess is mid-May, 1/4 of the season.  Complicating things would be Ehire.  They may give him a little run once he's healthy, sending Luscious back down and sitting Alcides on the bench.
Im still not sure why he can't just stay down there until after the deadline. Again, we arent competing for anything. The goal of this season is to maximize value at the deadline. For that, your assets need time to produce.

I also think almost 400 PAs of struggling against MLB pitching vastly outweighs any production in Triple A. Particularly since everyone in Triple is learning to throw an entirely new baseball.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #165: April 29, 2022, 09:37:44 AM »
Im still not sure why he can't just stay down there until after the deadline. Again, we arent competing for anything. The goal of this season is to maximize value at the deadline. For that, your assets need time to produce.

I also think almost 400 PAs of struggling against MLB pitching vastly outweighs any production in Triple A. Particularly since everyone in Triple is learning to throw an entirely new baseball.
Robles has many more at bats against MLB pitching but you want hike playing CF for the Nats. Not clear to me why you think one guy needs to learn in the minors and not the other?

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #166: April 29, 2022, 10:03:58 AM »
Robles has many more at bats against MLB pitching but you want hike playing CF for the Nats. Not clear to me why you think one guy needs to learn in the minors and not the other?

Probably because there's not much realistic hope of Robles getting better by going to the minors (how'd it work last year?) and nobody else who would play CF whose value could be pumped up for a trade.  Big difference between 21 with room to grow on offense and defense and a guy who is almost 25, has proven he can play CF in the majors but has also proven in over 1300 plate appearances that he can't hit MLB pitching consistently.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #167: April 29, 2022, 10:05:47 AM »
Robles has many more at bats against MLB pitching but you want hike playing CF for the Nats. Not clear to me why you think one guy needs to learn in the minors and not the other?
Robles plays elite defense at the MLB level. Garcia does not. He hasnt even shown passable defense.

Robles has shown he can hit major league pitching in the past. Garcia has not.

Robles only has one more minor league option left. Garcia has two and I see no reason to build MLB service time and burn an option when this team is uncompetitive.

Robles was called up out of necessity, due to injuries on a team competing for a World Series.

I think Robles was called up too soon and is a prime example of why this is exactly the time we need to be letting Garcia develop in Triple A. He had initial success, and then once he got scouted, they found the hole in his swing. Robles needed more time at the minor league level to develop an approach and work on secondary pitches.

This is Garcia in a nutshell. He hits four seam fastballs and cant hit anything else. He's going up against guys who are learning to pitch with a new, smoother baseball than they've ever used. While he is exceeding expectations, he should be hitting well against Triple A pitching.

What does the team/organization gain by promoting Garcia to the MLB club? Not a whole lot, honestly. Best case scenario is they win a couple more games. So 96 losses instead of 98.

But the potential downsides are pretty substantial:
- Potentially, he stunts development. He either sits on the bench or struggles (again) against MLB pitching.
- He is a defensive liability on a team that doesnt field very well.
- He accumulates service time in meaningless baseball, thereby becoming more expensive and leaving for free agency sooner.
- He takes playing time away from players that we need to move at the deadline, in order to continue rebuilding and creating a window to compete while Soto is still under contract.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #168: April 29, 2022, 10:09:35 AM »
It is mostly about the glove, and they want him to dominate for more than 3 weeks.  My guess is mid-May, 1/4 of the season.  Complicating things would be Ehire.  They may give him a little run once he's healthy, sending Luscious back down and sitting Alcides on the bench.
Luis Garcia hit it hard last season in Rochester. I think they want to see him eventually struggle and bounce back in Rochester.

I saw something about service time manipulation. If he stays down through end of May, Nationals get extra year of control. I have no idea if that is accurate, but it could help explain why they're in no rush with him.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #169: April 29, 2022, 11:04:47 AM »
Service time is a clear issue.  The option is burned, so that doesn't factor in. 

I guess the idea of "building value" is kind of moot for Alcides at this point.  I don't know enough about Ehire to know if he might have value, but I'd think that's minimal.  Cesar has to play, and probably Franco if we are looking in weird spaces for value.  Garcia has to play SS or wait until Cesar is traded.  Thinking about it, give him a long leash at SS in AAA, then make the decision where to play him after Cesar is moved. 

We aren't screaming he needs to be called up now if Escobar or Fox looked like 0 WAR replacement players.  Combined they are -1.1 fWAR.  Literally, any readily available MLB minimum-making street free agent should be able to come in and replace them and improve the line up.

Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #170: April 29, 2022, 12:50:22 PM »
Unless Garcia can play SS, there is no position open to him without benching Hernandez at 2B.

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #171: April 29, 2022, 01:09:04 PM »
It is mostly about the glove, and they want him to dominate for more than 3 weeks.  My guess is mid-May, 1/4 of the season.  Complicating things would be Ehire.  They may give him a little run once he's healthy, sending Luscious back down and sitting Alcides on the bench.

Adrianza isn't even running yet per Zuck, and he's on the 60-day DL which means we won't see him until June at the earliest.

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #172: April 29, 2022, 01:12:11 PM »
Robles has shown he can hit major league pitching in the past. Garcia has not.

Garcia in the Majors
2020: .276 / .302 /.366, 139 PAs
2021: .242 / .275 / .411, 247 PAs

Those numbers for Garcia seem halfway decent (at least) for a 21-year old.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #173: April 29, 2022, 01:34:36 PM »
Unless Garcia can play SS, there is no position open to him without benching Hernandez at 2B.
And we need to build up Hernandez's value to trade at the deadline

Offline blue911

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #174: April 29, 2022, 03:56:32 PM »
Garcia in the Majors
2020: .276 / .302 /.366, 139 PAs
2021: .242 / .275 / .411, 247 PAs

Those numbers for Garcia seem halfway decent (at least) for a 21-year old.

He owns at career exit velocity below 80 mph against off-speed pitches and around 84 against breaking pitches. He needs to learn how to hit something that isn’t at fastball. And that requires more than a good three week stretch.