Poll

When should Garcia take over as starting SS?

Should have happened already
4 (28.6%)
6/1
3 (21.4%)
7/1
4 (28.6%)
After ASB
0 (0%)
8/1
2 (14.3%)
9/1 call up
1 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Author Topic: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS (Poll Added)  (Read 7586 times)

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Offline Section214

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #125: April 15, 2022, 03:40:25 PM »
i think they wanted to get Garcia some regular time at SS before calling him up. He had played a lot at 2nd last year.  If he keeps this up, he'll be here soon.

This is totally reasonable to me. I am not watching him every day, so I can't speak to his ability at SS, but at the plate, I think it's a waste to have him down there hitting .300+ in AAA, we already know he can do that. Give him a few weeks to be an every day SS and plug him in.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #126: April 15, 2022, 05:04:14 PM »
I think this is an outdated take. Look around the league and see all of the top prospects being thrown into the fire early on. Especially when you are in the position the Nationals are in where the results on the field don't really matter. Garcia has two seasons of MLB ABs already and has not appeared completely overwhelmed, I see no reason to leave him down there much longer.

I am not saying call him up today and start him at SS, but if Escobar is still hitting in the .100s through April, just bring him up. Players can improve in the Majors, not just in the Minors.
Garcia isnt a top prospect.

Also,

Bobby Witt Jr: 125/.160/.292
Julio Rodriguez: .095/.174   /.143
Spencer Torkelson: 158/.333/.368

Plemty of top prospects are struggling early

Offline Section214

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #127: April 15, 2022, 06:32:34 PM »
Garcia isnt a top prospect.

Also,

Bobby Witt Jr: 125/.160/.292
Julio Rodriguez: .095/.174   /.143
Spencer Torkelson: 158/.333/.368

Plemty of top prospects are struggling early

Garcia absolutely was a top prospect in 2020 and still should be considered as such, he has just graduated. And yes, those guys struggling is exactly my point, let your guys figure it out in the big leagues and don't give them a short leash. The Nationals can especially afford this in our current situation. Guys don't need to be 100% MLB ready because they have been smashing their way through the minors for years any more, there are plenty of busts like that too.

For the record, I am completely the opposite with pitchers like Cavalli, give those guys all the time in the world to build up their strength.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #128: April 15, 2022, 06:59:10 PM »
Garcia absolutely was a top prospect in 2020 and still should be considered as such, he has just graduated. And yes, those guys struggling is exactly my point, let your guys figure it out in the big leagues and don't give them a short leash. The Nationals can especially afford this in our current situation. Guys don't need to be 100% MLB ready because they have been smashing their way through the minors for years any more, there are plenty of busts like that too.

For the record, I am completely the opposite with pitchers like Cavalli, give those guys all the time in the world to build up their strength.
Garcia has already struggled. Twice. He isn't ready. And bringing him up could ruin his development. Like we did with Kieboom and Robles. Like was done witb Justin Smoak. Or Jarred Kelenic. Or Jo Adell. Or Andrew Vaughn.

There is literally no reason for him to be on the MLB club. The team gets nothing out of it. His development will be stunted. He needs to be in the minors, playing every day, working on defense, for at least two months.

Garcia hasnt been smashing his way through the minors for years. He doesnt even have two months in Triple A. In Double A he was a below average hitter. The last time he "smashed" for a full season in the minors was A ball (not sure a 111 wRC+ is really smashing either).

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #129: April 15, 2022, 06:59:38 PM »
The top prospects the come up and dominate like Soto are still the exception, not the rule. The overwhelming majority of young players are overwhelmed when they get called up and are pretty volatile for a few years when they get here, even the best of the best.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #130: April 15, 2022, 07:03:07 PM »
The top prospects the come up and dominate like Soto are still the exception, not the rule. The overwhelming majority of young players are overwhelmed when they get called up and are pretty volatile for a few years when they get here, even the best of the best.
Soto and Harper might be the worst thing to happen to Nats fans and having expectations of younger players.

Offline Section214

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #131: April 15, 2022, 08:14:47 PM »
Garcia has already struggled. Twice. He isn't ready. And bringing him up could ruin his development. Like we did with Kieboom and Robles. Like was done witb Justin Smoak. Or Jarred Kelenic. Or Jo Adell. Or Andrew Vaughn.

There is literally no reason for him to be on the MLB club. The team gets nothing out of it. His development will be stunted. He needs to be in the minors, playing every day, working on defense, for at least two months.

Garcia hasnt been smashing his way through the minors for years. He doesnt even have two months in Triple A. In Double A he was a below average hitter. The last time he "smashed" for a full season in the minors was A ball (not sure a 111 wRC+ is really smashing either).

You continue to prove my point so I just don't think we see eye to eye on this. Andrew Vaughn took his lumps last year and in year two is looking terrific. The Mariners and Angels are sticking with Adell/Kelenic and I think it will work out here soon. This idea that you call up a young player too early and their development is ruined is just archaic to me. Again, for a Pitcher, I get it, for a QB in the NFL, I get it, but for position players, call them up and let them take their lumps at the pro level, if you have the luxury which we have.

If the Nationals were the Mets/Braves/Phillies and every game mattered, sure, let Garcia soak in AAA until he is fully developed, but for the Nationals this year, it doesn't make as much sense. These guys don't get "ruined", they just have a slow start.

Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #132: April 15, 2022, 08:22:50 PM »
You continue to prove my point so I just don't think we see eye to eye on this. Andrew Vaughn took his lumps last year and in year two is looking terrific. The Mariners and Angels are sticking with Adell/Kelenic and I think it will work out here soon. This idea that you call up a young player too early and their development is ruined is just archaic to me. Again, for a Pitcher, I get it, for a QB in the NFL, I get it, but for position players, call them up and let them take their lumps at the pro level, if you have the luxury which we have.

If the Nationals were the Mets/Braves/Phillies and every game mattered, sure, let Garcia soak in AAA until he is fully developed, but for the Nationals this year, it doesn't make as much sense. These guys don't get "ruined", they just have a slow start.

Calling it "archaic" is not persuasive. As Slate mentions, Garcia has not hit much anywhere, and he had plenty of chances with the Nats last season. He is a crude fielder. When and where does he learn?

Offline Section214

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #133: April 15, 2022, 08:29:02 PM »
Calling it "archaic" is not persuasive. As Slate mentions, Garcia has not hit much anywhere, and he had plenty of chances with the Nats last season. He is a crude fielder. When and where does he learn?

I will admit again that I don't know enough about his fielding to say he should be up. That argument makes complete sense to me if that's the case, but just saying that guys get their development ruined by getting called up too early does not make sense to me. I guess I am just overly frustrated with Escaobar being awful and need to get over it, but I would like to see Garcia up in May.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #134: April 15, 2022, 08:38:05 PM »
I don’t believe there is any evidence to say there is an exact amount of time guys should spend in the majors or minors to develop.  It’s also silly to cite stats for guys struggling a few games into the season. The definition of small sample size. Same goes for minor league stats this season. Too soon for judgments.

At this point they seem to want to get Garcia at least a couple of months in Rochester. Whether that is for offense or defense or both I don’t know. At this point on time he is still possibly in the Nats future. Escobar definitely is not. 

BTW Garcia’s OPS career wise is about the same as Wally Blackman. Blackman had about 13 WAR over his entire career according to baseball reference.  Which means about 1 WAR per year. Which means he was not that good.

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #135: April 15, 2022, 09:50:08 PM »
2nd homer tonight

Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #136: April 15, 2022, 10:11:57 PM »
I don’t believe there is any evidence to say there is an exact amount of time guys should spend in the majors or minors to develop.  It’s also silly to cite stats for guys struggling a few games into the season. The definition of small sample size. Same goes for minor league stats this season. Too soon for judgments.

At this point they seem to want to get Garcia at least a couple of months in Rochester. Whether that is for offense or defense or both I don’t know. At this point on time he is still possibly in the Nats future. Escobar definitely is not. 

BTW Garcia’s OPS career wise is about the same as Wally Blackman. Blackman had about 13 WAR over his entire career according to baseball reference.  Which means about 1 WAR per year. Which means he was not that good.

Look at Wally "The Pest" Backman, 1985 - 1988, when the Mets contended. If Garcia was Backman 2, he'd be fine. Garcia is not there yet.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #137: April 15, 2022, 11:07:13 PM »
You continue to prove my point so I just don't think we see eye to eye on this. Andrew Vaughn took his lumps last year and in year two is looking terrific. The Mariners and Angels are sticking with Adell/Kelenic and I think it will work out here soon. This idea that you call up a young player too early and their development is ruined is just archaic to me. Again, for a Pitcher, I get it, for a QB in the NFL, I get it, but for position players, call them up and let them take their lumps at the pro level, if you have the luxury which we have.

If the Nationals were the Mets/Braves/Phillies and every game mattered, sure, let Garcia soak in AAA until he is fully developed, but for the Nationals this year, it doesn't make as much sense. These guys don't get "ruined", they just have a slow start.
Vaughn played three years of college ball, a year in the minor, and then played a year on the US National Team. Oh and then he hit .435  in ST this year.

Vaughn is light years ahead of Garcia. He was significantly better than him last year as well.

Baseball is littered with talented prospects who were called up too soon. Hell, the Mariners could put together an entire roster on from the last time they made the playoffs.

You admitted it. Garcia hasnt fully developed. There is no reason to do it at the MLB level. That ia literally what the minors are for.

Offline Section214

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #138: April 15, 2022, 11:47:20 PM »
Vaughn played three years of college ball, a year in the minor, and then played a year on the US National Team. Oh and then he hit .435  in ST this year.

Vaughn is light years ahead of Garcia. He was significantly better than him last year as well.

Baseball is littered with talented prospects who were called up too soon. Hell, the Mariners could put together an entire roster on from the last time they made the playoffs.

You admitted it. Garcia hasnt fully developed. There is no reason to do it at the MLB level. That ia literally what the minors are for.

We're both just yelling at the wall. I understand your point and don't think you are necessarily wrong in thinking we should keep Garcia in the Minors for a while. I just also don't think he would be ruined by coming up and being our every day SS April 22 vs. June 22.

Offline blue911

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #139: April 16, 2022, 08:07:07 AM »
Garcia can’t hit anything but fastballs and can’t lay off breaking and off-speed crap. When he learns to slap the ball to left, then there is a reason to promote him.

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #140: April 16, 2022, 08:52:03 AM »
.349 with an OPS of .972 so far. Obviously can’t hit.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #141: April 17, 2022, 10:55:00 AM »
Soto and Harper might be the worst thing to happen to Nats fans and having expectations of younger players.
Correct.

I still love Luis Garcia's potential. He was called up by necessity in 2020 and in 2021 never looked comfortable. We know he has raw power and has shown flashes of defensive potential. If the Nationals think him spending a couple months in Rochester will help clean up his game, I'm happy they're taking that approach.

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #142: April 17, 2022, 12:17:09 PM »
3-6, 3R last night.

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #143: April 18, 2022, 10:19:48 AM »
2-4, 2B, 3B yesterday. Now hitting 377/.411/.623

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #144: April 18, 2022, 10:30:13 AM »
Is he playing short or 2nd?

Offline Natsinpwc

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Offline welch

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #146: April 18, 2022, 01:45:53 PM »
If he's playing SS, let him play more, until the Nats believe he can field the position and hit major league pitching. Rochester is the place to learn and to develop.

Offline imref

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #147: April 19, 2022, 10:45:29 AM »
Quote
Nationals on MASN
@masnNationals
Luis García hit .519 with a 1.370 OPS over six games last week to earn International League Player of the Week honors.

Unfortunately he's already made 4 errors at SS, but his bat is definitely there.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #148: April 19, 2022, 11:38:44 AM »
Unfortunately he's already made 4 errors at SS, but his bat is definitely there.
That explains why he is still down there.

I think he has potential to be a plus bat in the middle infield. If he can't play there, it gets grim in a hurry.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Follow the Prospects: Luis Garcia, SS
« Reply #149: April 20, 2022, 12:07:29 PM »
That explains why he is still down there.

I think he has potential to be a plus bat in the middle infield. If he can't play there, it gets grim in a hurry.


I think those four errors came in his first five games or so, he's been error free (knock on wood) since.