Author Topic: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.  (Read 159503 times)

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Offline mmzznnxx

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2325 on: September 30, 2015, 09:47:42 pm »
I don't know. Maybe you give him a break when someone puts a microphone in his face moments after he gets betrayed by his FO.  He didn't keep talking about it.


Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2326 on: September 30, 2015, 10:26:05 pm »
He was 39/41 at that point in the season. After winning his closing job back from the last closer that screwed the pooch.



Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2327 on: September 30, 2015, 10:33:32 pm »
Pulitzer stuff.

I don't know if I would go that far but it is indeed well done. A really strong narrative with lots of stories interwoven. I'm not a big fan of Svrluga but he did a good job here.

And Williams is so done. I expect he will be fired the Monday after the season is over.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2328 on: September 30, 2015, 10:54:42 pm »
This team is such an embarrassment right now.






<------- I think this will be around for awhile...

Offline Optics

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2329 on: September 30, 2015, 11:55:38 pm »
Wow, what a dysfunctional mess.

But hey, the Red Sox a couple years back were a mess too. Then they hire Farrell and wham bam, World Series winners.

The right Manager makes all the difference. Question is, can Rizzo find him?

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2330 on: October 01, 2015, 12:12:35 am »
Pulitzer stuff.
Pulitzer stuff if the timestamp wasn't this late.  Back in the Bronx zoo days, the info flowed freely in real time. Yet in the Twitter age, this stuff sat on the shelf until they Monday morning quarterbacked from a safe distance at a time that doesn't risk press conference tension for those now wagging their tongues.

Wasn't it just days ago that Boswell ran with the story that essentially gave cover to another year of Williams? For the writers to sit on this stuff until now is hardly award-winning stuff; it's risk-free dirty laundry.

Offline whytev

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2331 on: October 01, 2015, 12:45:46 am »
I don't really have a problem with a player consulting with his agent frequently.  Why should he be all alone in dealing with managers, owners, GM's, team front office personnel, lawyers, etc?  You can be assured the team itself is all lawyered up and bringing a lot of resources to bear in relations with the players (except for a lot of manager decisions, which MW obviously made without consulting anyone knowledgeable about the sport).

Calling your agent is fine.

Telling everyone you called your agent is weird.

Offline whytev

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2332 on: October 01, 2015, 12:47:47 am »
Pulitzer stuff if the timestamp wasn't this late.  Back in the Bronx zoo days, the info flowed freely in real time. Yet in the Twitter age, this stuff sat on the shelf until they Monday morning quarterbacked from a safe distance at a time that doesn't risk press conference tension for those now wagging their tongues.

Wasn't it just days ago that Boswell ran with the story that essentially gave cover to another year of Williams? For the writers to sit on this stuff until now is hardly award-winning stuff; it's risk-free dirty laundry.

It's rough having the goods on agreement you won't publish until after.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2333 on: October 01, 2015, 12:48:17 am »
He was 39/41 at that point in the season. After winning his closing job back from the last closer that screwed the pooch.

He was good in the regular season in 2012 and 2014 as well and went on to totally melt down in the playoffs-would you have been comfortable going into this post season with Drew as your closer? 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2334 on: October 01, 2015, 02:57:01 am »
I don't know if I would go that far but it is indeed well done. A really strong narrative with lots of stories interwoven. I'm not a big fan of Svrluga but he did a good job here.

And Williams is so done. I expect he will be fired the Monday after the season is over.
seems he is getting good sources to talk, and that he's putting names and events together.  probably getting multiple confirms for every anecdote for Werth, Thornton, Storen, etc... if he can't get someone on record. He's letting the events tell the story, even if he has a point of view.  It is a 6 part series, so I'm guessing the other parts are similarly sourced and put together.  I'd say that could be Pulitzer stuff for sports writing.  At least a nomination.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2335 on: October 01, 2015, 03:07:41 am »
Pulitzer stuff if the timestamp wasn't this late.  Back in the Bronx zoo days, the info flowed freely in real time. Yet in the Twitter age, this stuff sat on the shelf until they Monday morning quarterbacked from a safe distance at a time that doesn't risk press conference tension for those now wagging their tongues.
Well, it helps that he is not the beat writer and can afford to burn people.  Reminds me of the Bob Hohler piece on chicken and beer.  I hated the Hohler piece since it was an obvious hatchet job from the Troika placed in the paper that they owned and typical of the way no one leaves the Red Sox with a name intact.  Maybe this is the knife in the back of Williams as a favor to the Lerners, but the rest of the series will be less focused on the Williams problem and more on the overall team's failure.  Frankly, it was tough to write them off before they were eliminated, so I can see the timing from that perspective. 

Rather than saying it is a short-coming of the article, I think that, if there is a failure to report this during the year, it is more on beat folks, Boz, and Kilgore. But there were hints of almost everything before, too.  The problem was, when the beat folks would ask a q at a press conference about a specific decision or example, they'd get "standard decision" or some tripe about "you don't know what data we had behind the decision" and they would have to print that, too.  it takes time to piece a piece like Svrulga's together.  It is not a thing a beat writer can do on a deadline.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2336 on: October 01, 2015, 03:25:51 am »
I think picture says it all...


Offline DCFan

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2337 on: October 01, 2015, 04:26:05 am »
Still would like to know where McCatty fits in all this.

Or the bench coarch.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2338 on: October 01, 2015, 08:39:02 am »
Or the bench coarch.

I get an uneasy feeling that Knorr is essentially a Riggleman or worse, Acta.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2339 on: October 01, 2015, 08:56:20 am »
I get an uneasy feeling that Knorr is essentially a Riggleman or worse, Acta.
Why? Honestly, what little we've seen from Knorr leads me to think he'd be a decent manager. I'm pretty sure the players like him.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2340 on: October 01, 2015, 08:58:15 am »
Why? Honestly, what little we've seen from Knorr leads me to think he'd be a decent manager. I'm pretty sure the players like him.

if the locker room is as bad as svrluga paints it, I think you need to clean house with the coaching staff and hope a fresh start improves things 

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2341 on: October 01, 2015, 09:01:58 am »
Why? Honestly, what little we've seen from Knorr leads me to think he'd be a decent manager. I'm pretty sure the players like him.

I'm sure the players like him and he's a nice guy.    Is that what we need?    I see him as a mentor but not a MLB manager.    Probably all a mindfact.    :)

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2342 on: October 01, 2015, 09:08:26 am »
I'm sure the players like him and he's a nice guy.    Is that what we need?    I see him as a mentor but not a MLB manager.    Probably all a mindfact.    :)
Isn't that okay for a bench coach though?

And, frankly, it seems like that is what was needed this season from the manager. Guy who can understand the dynamics of the locker room. That and manage pitching.

Offline Briggs

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2343 on: October 01, 2015, 09:12:05 am »
The sad part of this is that there is no leader in the locker room.  Why didn't a Werth or Desmond hold a player's only meeting to clear the air?  Why didn't Rizzo call a meeting with coaches and manager or players?  Why anybody speak up?

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2344 on: October 01, 2015, 09:20:30 am »
The sad part of this is that there is no leader in the locker room.  Why didn't a Werth or Desmond hold a player's only meeting to clear the air?  Why didn't Rizzo call a meeting with coaches and manager or players?  Why anybody speak up?
I was wondering during the season the same thing--why no players only meeting?  Unless there was and we didn't hear about it.  And why did they not approach Williams as professionals and tell him what no one liked about his approach rather than ripping lineups off of walls?  Lack of leadership from the players also on this team in addition to a bad manager.  New manager will have his work cut out for him.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2345 on: October 01, 2015, 09:23:42 am »
I don't think this team has many leadership types- it was supposed to be desmond, but he was in his last year here and having a miserable season. Zimmerman should be that guy based on tenure and contract, but he isn't. Based on performance, it should be harper, but what veteran wants to listen to a kid. Maybe werth is different behind closed doors, but he doesn't exactly seem like a leader when you hear him talk

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2346 on: October 01, 2015, 09:26:52 am »
Isn't that okay for a bench coach though?

And, frankly, it seems like that is what was needed this season from the manager. Guy who can understand the dynamics of the locker room. That and manage pitching.

Oh yeah on the bench coach.   I thought I read somebody wants to promote him to skipper.    Of course, maybe being an old guy, I made a connection that wasn't implied.    I do think he's about perfect as a bench coach for this team.    My concern now is a lot of his guys (minor leagues, etc.) are movin' on.   What does he bring if he has no connection to the players and the manager ignores him?    After reading the article yesterday, I can see where Williams didn't listen to McCatty or Knorr regardless of what they suggested.

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2347 on: October 01, 2015, 09:55:04 am »
Who in charge of this mess?  Oh, that's right, Mike Rizzo. He knew what was going on but failed to do a damn thing, other than throw gas (Pap) on the fire.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2348 on: October 01, 2015, 10:51:00 am »
I don't think this team has many leadership types- it was supposed to be desmond, but he was in his last year here and having a miserable season. Zimmerman should be that guy based on tenure and contract, but he isn't. Based on performance, it should be harper, but what veteran wants to listen to a kid. Maybe werth is different behind closed doors, but he doesn't exactly seem like a leader when you hear him talk
some of this I think may have had to do with injuries to the veterans?  Werth and RZ would be the alternatives to Desmond for this, and they were so underperforming or out of the locker room for stretches that their status was undercut.  Desi also had his problems.  Harper and Rendon (hurt) are too young, and Espinosa is a fringe guy.  There was no one with the status of a big dog to pull this off.

Offline NatsGirl

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2349 on: October 01, 2015, 02:18:11 pm »
I watched a bunch of videos of the Blue Jays celebrating yesterday and it's shocking how different that team looks compared to the Nationals, even the Nationals last year when they were celebrating.  That is a loose clubhouse and a group of guys that really like and care about each other.  Even the Nats at their best didn't look that close. 

I love the WaPo article, but it is a little frustrating how these writers sit on this info and wait to publish it at a "safe" time.  There is no way Matt Williams is back, unless in a diminished role.