Author Topic: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.  (Read 159568 times)

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Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2300 on: September 30, 2015, 01:42:30 pm »
Quote
A crucial homestand began with a listless, 10-3 loss to last-place Milwaukee. On that Saturday morning, Werth arrived at the ballpark and looked at the lineup card posted on a bulletin board that hangs on the wall just outside the main clubhouse. Clint Robinson was penciled into left field, where Werth plays. Rendon was penciled into the leadoff spot, where Werth had been hitting. Werth’s name wasn’t on it.

Throughout the season, when everyday players are going to get a day off, the manager typically finds a way to get the message to a player the night before. The player, then, can do with that information whatever he wants — get in a more rigorous weight-lifting session that night, arrive at the ballpark a little later the next day, whatever. More importantly, a player with a day off can mentally decompress and, for once, relax.

According to individuals with direct knowledge of the situation, Werth hadn’t received such a message from Williams. This wasn’t the first time, and Werth wasn’t the first veteran to experience what players considered an oversight once, an egregious error beyond that.

What might have been a minor blip in a successful season became a boiling point. Incensed, Werth ripped the lineup card off the wall, bellowing that it was going to change. Then, according to several people who were present, he confronted Williams — not just about whether he would play that day, but about what most of the clubhouse considered to be a chronic lack of communication with his players. Among the most jarring barbs, from Werth to Williams: “When exactly do you think you lost this team?”

Only one of many interesting nuggets from Svrgula: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2301 on: September 30, 2015, 01:57:02 pm »

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2302 on: September 30, 2015, 02:06:19 pm »
Not surprising; of course had Werth hit better would have helped offset a weak manager.


reading that, I get the impression that the players were more upset about the lack of communication (or outright lies) than being benched

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2303 on: September 30, 2015, 02:10:13 pm »
reading that, I get the impression that the players were more upset about the lack of communication (or outright lies) than being benched
agree; Matt will not go down in history as the Great Communicator.

I just think that as bad as he was as manager a number of players underperformed and need to look in the mirror.  The Nats supposedly have all this talent but were a 500 team.  Injuries play a part but not the only reason

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2305 on: September 30, 2015, 02:14:42 pm »
agree; Matt will not go down in history as the Great Communicator.

I just think that as bad as he was as manager a number of players underperformed and need to look in the mirror.  The Nats supposedly have all this talent but were a 500 team.  Injuries play a part but not the only reason
I agree, but I wonder how a toxic environment impacts performance- certainly not the whole story, but I could see a negative feedback loop developing pretty easily

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2306 on: September 30, 2015, 02:24:57 pm »
I agree, but I wonder how a toxic environment impacts performance- certainly not the whole story, but I could see a negative feedback loop developing pretty easily
Can't help.  That's for sure.

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2307 on: September 30, 2015, 02:40:34 pm »
I agree, but I wonder how a toxic environment impacts performance- certainly not the whole story, but I could see a negative feedback loop developing pretty easily

Right. I'm sure all the drama gets in people's heads.

Offline monkeyhit

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2308 on: September 30, 2015, 03:34:02 pm »
You knew Werth would be involved somehow. As dumb as Williams can be, Werth strikes me as a toxic pollutant no manager will be able to smother.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2309 on: September 30, 2015, 03:40:13 pm »
You knew Werth would be involved somehow. As dumb as Williams can be, Werth strikes me as a toxic pollutant no manager will be able to smother.
How about "no incompetent manager will be able to smother.  I don't think he is a toxic pollutant in general, I think his overall effect on the team's attitude and work ethic is positive.  He may have been a toxic pollutant to Nyger Morgan, but that got Morgan out of town which was for the good of the team.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2310 on: September 30, 2015, 03:44:32 pm »
You knew Werth would be involved somehow. As dumb as Williams can be, Werth strikes me as a toxic pollutant no manager will be able to smother.

Davey Johnson seemed to work fine with Werth. Williams is too uptight and can't find a way to communicate with his players. Werth is obviously not an inviting, easy to talk to kind of cat and he doesn't have to be. A good manager (not just in baseball) needs to find a way to reach his player and learn to adjust and motivate them correctly. It doesn't require much, but Matt has been so out of touch with the clubhouse that it's no surprise to see the season end this way.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2311 on: September 30, 2015, 04:57:54 pm »
You knew Werth would be involved somehow. As dumb as Williams can be, Werth strikes me as a toxic pollutant no manager will be able to smother.

Werth is not a problem on this team in terms of his focus, preparedness, and level of effort.  Sure, his skills are declining (and he seems a bit aloof and cranky) but they're still useful and we could use more of his type of player, not fewer. 

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2312 on: September 30, 2015, 05:01:39 pm »
Werth is not a problem on this team in terms of his focus, preparedness, and level of effort.  Sure, his skills are declining (and he seems a bit aloof and cranky) but they're still useful and we could use more of his type of player, not fewer. 
His defensive skills are visibly declining.  But I'm not so sure that his offensive skills are declining,  not if he's at 100% - which is something that we've only gotten a glimpse of, this season.  And that's a problem.  But as I have been saying, fire the entire medical/training staff and replace them with competent staff and I'm convinced that will make a profound difference.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2313 on: September 30, 2015, 05:20:02 pm »
I'm not sure the medical staff really applies here. Werth's injuries are all trauma injuries. Well, for the most part.

His defensive skills are visibly declining.  But I'm not so sure that his offensive skills are declining,  not if he's at 100% - which is something that we've only gotten a glimpse of, this season.  And that's a problem.  But as I have been saying, fire the entire medical/training staff and replace them with competent staff and I'm convinced that will make a profound difference.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2314 on: September 30, 2015, 05:21:44 pm »
To a certain degree, don't all managers do this? There's sort of an "A" pen and a "B" pen to keep pitchers fresh?

Does anybody have a link to the rumor/report that Matt Williams picks his relievers before the game starts?

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2315 on: September 30, 2015, 06:24:43 pm »

Asked about all the talk about his performance this year...Matt says all the facts haven't been presented.

Last I looked...you are what your record says.  That's all the facts I need...

Offline PC

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2316 on: September 30, 2015, 06:57:19 pm »
EVERYBODY needs to be fired because of how we played against the Orioles and how the Orioles have played against everyone else!  :whip:

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2317 on: September 30, 2015, 07:05:16 pm »
Great reporting by Svrluga.    :clap:

Still, painful to read, and confirms what we all suspected with respect to Matt's poor decision making abilities and respect in the clubhouse.

Here's another story (of many) that is revealing.

Quote
That afternoon, veteran reliever Casey Janssen came down with a neck issue during warmups, and he wasn’t available. Veteran lefty Matt Thornton, though, hadn’t appeared in a game in five days. He was ready. Williams got Thornton up once to warm up, but didn’t use him. He got him up again, but still didn’t call on him. As the game wore on, Thornton warmed up a third time, then a fourth time. By the time Wilmer Flores led off the 12th with a homer off Rivero, good for a 2-1 Mets win, Thornton had thrown in the bullpen five times.

“Never seen it before,” one Washington reliever said.

 :smh:

Then, in the next game:

Quote
In the eighth inning against the Mets, Williams lined up Thornton, the left-hander, to face the left-handed hitting Curtis Granderson, who was leading off. Here was the by-the-book move. Granderson, though, doubled. After an out, Williams ordered Thornton to intentionally walk Cespedes, a right-handed hitter who, over the course of his career, had extreme “reverse splits” — meaning he hit righties better than lefties — .314 against right-handers, .219 against lefties. That brought up Duda, who crushed Thornton’s 1-2 pitch to left-center, breaking the tie, providing the Mets with the winning run.

“My job there is to execute the pitch,” Thornton said. “I couldn’t do that, and we lost.”

The Nationals relievers, though, believed there was more to it to that. They believed the five times Thornton got up the previous night affected his ability to execute the pitch to Granderson, the pitch to Duda.

Thornton didn't make excuses, so credit for that.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2318 on: September 30, 2015, 07:08:41 pm »
Thornton didn't make excuses...

...or call his agent...

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2319 on: September 30, 2015, 07:11:43 pm »
Still would like to know where McCatty fits in all this.

Offline mmzznnxx

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2320 on: September 30, 2015, 08:16:15 pm »
...or call his agent...

I hope we call his agent with a deal for another year or two. One of our few worthwhile relievers.

Assuming he doesn't go to graze in the green pastures yonder.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2321 on: September 30, 2015, 08:41:52 pm »
Still would like to know where McCatty fits in all this.

Ignored by the village idiot

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2322 on: September 30, 2015, 09:13:30 pm »
...or call his agent...

I don't really have a problem with a player consulting with his agent frequently.  Why should he be all alone in dealing with managers, owners, GM's, team front office personnel, lawyers, etc?  You can be assured the team itself is all lawyered up and bringing a lot of resources to bear in relations with the players (except for a lot of manager decisions, which MW obviously made without consulting anyone knowledgeable about the sport).

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2323 on: September 30, 2015, 09:23:34 pm »
I don't really have a problem with a player consulting with his agent frequently.  Why should he be all alone in dealing with managers, owners, GM's, team front office personnel, lawyers, etc?  You can be assured the team itself is all lawyered up and bringing a lot of resources to bear in relations with the players (except for a lot of manager decisions, which MW obviously made without consulting anyone knowledgeable about the sport).

It was a referrence to Drew wanting us all to know he called his agent...

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.
« Reply #2324 on: September 30, 2015, 09:34:28 pm »
I don't know. Maybe you give him a break when someone puts a microphone in his face moments after he gets betrayed by his FO.  He didn't keep talking about it.

It was a referrence to Drew wanting us all to know he called his agent...