Washington Redskins thread (2013)

[spidernat]

I still can't believe Compton isn't getting looks over Polumbus.

It baffles the mind that he hasn't been given a look. It may mean that those picks (OL) were abject failures. I believe Leribeus coming in overweight pissed Shanahan so much that he has sent him to the doghouse for good. Shanahan can be very vindictive. But I don't get that. If you are that pissed off at him just cut him so he doesn't collect a paycheck for doing nothing.

I want the best team possible.

We're in agreement there.

[Terpfan76]

It baffles the mind that he hasn't been given a look. It may mean that those picks (OL) were abject failures. I believe Leribeus coming in overweight pissed Shanahan so much that he has sent him to the doghouse for good. Shanahan can be very vindictive. But I don't get that. If you are that pissed off at him just cut him so he doesn't collect a paycheck for doing nothing.

We're in agreement there.

Does Shanahan realize that cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't a very good way to win games? What about Gettis?
I read that ColSt has a center that would be a great fit should we keep the current staff and zone scheme. He's a "technician" which I assume means white and not very athletic Seriously though, very smart and knows how to make reads.

[spidernat]

Does Shanahan realize that cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't a very good way to win games? What about Gettis?
I read that ColSt has a center that would be a great fit should we keep the current staff and zone scheme. He's a "technician" which I assume means white and not very athletic Seriously though, very smart and knows how to make reads.

You have to be athletic to play center in this system. I think Liechtensteiger can play center but that leaves two guard positions to fill plus RT.

[Smithian]

ONE of the differences between you and me is that I can acknowledge when people play well AND when they don't. The reason they were able to stay in this game is because of the defensive front 7. Both Orakpo and Kerrigan played well today. But so did everyone else on the first two levels of the defense. You on the other hand ignore games when Orakpo had a total of two tackles in three games and countered by quoting stats from his rookie season or said crap about his making multiple pro bowls. Vince Young needs to add multiple pro bowls to his resume so he wouldn't have to be sitting at home. While we're at it so should Matt Schaub because according to the likes of you that merits him stud status.

[Smithian]

I think 400 yards passing next week for Cousins is a reasonable expectation. Damn Dallas.

[Terpfan76]

You have to be athletic to play center in this system. I think Liechtensteiger can play center but that leaves two guard positions to fill plus RT.

Weston Richburg is the guy. Four year starter and will play in the Senior Bowl. Started at guard and center as a freshman. No penalties as junior from what I read.

[HalfSmokes]

a better center is a luxury for a team with this many holes. on defense, you need most of a line, ilbs, safeties and at least one corner. on offense, you need a rt, two guards, a number one reciever, a slot reciever and possibly a tight end if reed is made of glass.

[spidernat]

Weston Richburg is the guy. Four year starter and will play in the Senior Bowl. Started at guard and center as a freshman. No penalties as junior from what I read.

At this point I'm with Halfsmokes in saying I want them to bring in an actual personnel man to handle that end of the operation. I don't trust Shanahan with picking OL since the ones he has selected here can't even get on the field.

[Terpfan76]

At this point I'm with Halfsmokes in saying I want them to bring in an actual personnel man to handle that end of the operation. I don't trust Shanahan with picking OL since the ones he has selected here can't even get on the field.

Oh I'm good with giving someone else the job. Like I said, I want the best team possible. Hell, with a lot of Shanahan's oline picks, we may never know if they can play, he won't put them on the field.

As for center being a luxury upgrade? I don't know about that. I like Montgomery but face it, he gets pushed around too much and with the read option not functioning, he got exposed as has the whole right side of the line. That's where a guy like Richburg could come in handy. Experience at guard and center would allow versatility in the middle.

[Terpfan76]

a better center is a luxury for a team with this many holes. on defense, you need most of a line, ilbs, safeties and at least one corner. on offense, you need a rt, two guards, a number one reciever, a slot reciever and possibly a tight end if reed is made of glass.

Garçon has played pretty well so I don't know that a #1 receiver is much of a need. I'm going to give Reed the benefit of the doubt considering how the league is handling concussions now and the increased awareness of the after effects.
RT and RG are big areas of need. A true NT, ILB, CB, wr/rs and a punter are all needs that have to be addressed. A number of these will be addressed via FAs. Do we re-sign Orakpo? Depends on what he asks for because he hasn't been consistently good enough to pay big money. Drafting a QB project should be a priority too if Cousins is traded and even if he isn't, we'll need a guy to take MDS' job.

[HalfSmokes]

To fill all those holes,  they'd have to hit on every draft pick (more than a couple would be a minor miracle given shanny draft history here)  and get the best free agents available cheaply -  I'm just saying they are going to have to prioritize And right now the defense is the more atrocious unit

[spidernat]

As for center being a luxury upgrade? I don't know about that.

I don't consider it a luxury upgrade either. Montgomery has got to go.

Garçon has played pretty well so I don't know that a #1 receiver is much of a need. I'm going to give Reed the benefit of the doubt considering how the league is handling concussions now and the increased awareness of the after effects.

Garcon is not a number 1 receiver. But you can get away with it if you have a couple number 2's and the Redskins don't have anyone after Garcon s they need to bring in one more pass catching threat. As for Reed, I'm not going to count on him from here on out. He's already had 3 concussions so I won't expect much from that dude except for being inactive half of the time.

Baker and Jenkins played well today. I really hope they aren't counting on bringing Carriker back but there is something about Carriker Shanahan likes. 

 Do we re-sign Orakpo? Depends on what he asks for because he hasn't been consistently good enough to pay big money.

They said today that he is looking forward to testing the FA market so I wouldn't bother overpaying for him.

[spidernat]

Aldrick Robinson looked a little bit like a receiver today. I wonder if we will learn whether he ran the wrong route on the interception or not.

[HalfSmokes]

I'd still franchise Orakpo - it gives you one less hole next year

[spidernat]

I'd still franchise Orakpo - it gives you one less hole next year

You know that may not be as bad. I don't know if they go by the top 5 OLB or if they count both OLB and ILB but either way it may end up being under $10 million. If they do only OLB's it should be around 8 million. If they go by all LB's it could end up being just under 10 million but that's just a guess on my part. If I'm anywhere close to it then it would not be a bad idea considering they can jettison salary cap space by making some overdue cuts.

[madj55]

I'm going to ignore the "cannon for an arm" bullcrap. He's only been accurate (and we can only base this on past performance) when he played in a college system that left WR's wide open. I don't see that system surviving in the NFL for the long run. If it did then Tim Tebow can be allowed back into the league. If you could run that system successfully year in and year out then fine because it makes decision making easy and it has the potential to leave receivers wide open but if not then he has to show me he can learn to play the game at this level. I hope it happens because the success of my team depends on it but I need to see it to believe it.

What ability? A "cannon arm"? We can name many who had cannon arms but were failures and many who didn't have cannon arms but were excellent QB's. Accurately hitting wide open receivers (up until this year )? Aside from Tim Tebow, that isn't how you measure a QB;s accuracy. His ability to run and extend plays? He failed to extend plays this season. Besides, what you described is Mike Vick and Vick has never been much more than hype.

Whatever you say!

[Smithian]

Garcon is not a number 1 receiver. But you can get away with it if you have a couple number 2's and the Redskins don't have anyone after Garcon s they need to bring in one more pass catching threat. As for Reed, I'm not going to count on him from here on out. He's already had 3 concussions so I won't expect much from that dude except for being inactive half of the time.

A lot of folks have said this, but I don't get it. He has had F ups this season, but he is on pace to catch 100+ balls when defenses know he is the #1 target. He's been very consistent, with 5+ catches every game. He has made some acrobatic catches. Garcon isn't in the same universe as a Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, or Brandon Marshall but what does he have to do in some eyes to be a "#1 WR"? He's a good WR.

And I have given up all hope of having two good WRs at one time. I can't remember last time the Skins had two good WRs at one time. Late 90's with Westbrook and Connell? They both had 1,000+ yards but I wasn't watching closely back then.

[Terpfan76]

The skins haven't had a tandem of legit pass catchers since probably Clark and Monk.

I like Garçon and he's made strides in the area of becoming a #1 receiver but if we look at #1s the way we do aces in baseball, there are only a handful of true #1 receivers. I agree that we need another target that can make plays. Robinson had a good game but it'll take more than one game to earn any serious consideration.

I've heard Dexter Macluster(sp?) as a potential FA target. Might not be a bad move if available. Can tale Moss' spot as the slot guy, is versatile and can return kicks. Something to ponder I suppose.

[HalfSmokes]

Garcon isn't in the same universe as a Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, or Brandon Marshall but what does he have to do in some eyes to be a "#1 WR"? He's a good WR.

Be able to score long yac touch downs and to beat corners deep. 

[spidernat]

Be able to score long yac touch downs and to beat corners deep. 

This is a pretty good definition. It's one of those that you know them when you see them. Getting 100 catches is not a good measure as you can find several guys who have had that many catches (some TE's and RB's have done it too) but were not real threats that made defenses game plan specifically for them. Garcon is a nice receiver and a "gamer".  I hate that label but he fits it perfectly. Also, I don't think teams see the need to bracket him or double team him a ton. A number 1 gets that kind of attention and still produces big and also makes it easier on the rest of the receiving corps because of the attention he commands from defenses. It also depends on the routes that receivers run in accumulating those catches.

The skins haven't had a tandem of legit pass catchers since probably Clark and Monk AND Sanders.

I like Garçon and he's made strides in the area of becoming a #1 receiver

Very seldom does a guy make strides to become that type of receiver 6 years after coming into the league.

but if we look at #1s the way we do aces in baseball, there are only a handful of true #1 receivers.

QFT

I had this conversation with some people not too long ago and when I said we needed a number 1 they countered with saying this. But I told them that just because there are only a limited of studs around doesn't mean you should lower your expectations. You should aim to have one of those guys on your roster and accept nothing short of it.

I can't remember last time the Skins had two good WRs at one time. Late 90's with Westbrook and Connell? They both had 1,000+ yards but I wasn't watching closely back then.

[Slateman]

The skins haven't had a tandem of legit pass catchers since probably Clark and Monk.

I like Garçon and he's made strides in the area of becoming a #1 receiver but if we look at #1s the way we do aces in baseball, there are only a handful of true #1 receivers. I agree that we need another target that can make plays. Robinson had a good game but it'll take more than one game to earn any serious consideration.

I've heard Dexter Macluster(sp?) as a potential FA target. Might not be a bad move if available. Can tale Moss' spot as the slot guy, is versatile and can return kicks. Something to ponder I suppose.

I think there is a huge difference in baseball between a #1 and an Ace. Aces are elite. I conisder the top 10% as elite. So, for elite receivers I would go with the top 6 or 7. Basically, these are the guys that opposing defenses look at and say, we have to double cover him and even when they do, he still gets his. Calvin Johnson, DeShawn Jackson, Andre Johnson, AJ Green. These are the only sure fire elite receivers. Maybe Brandon Marshall too.

But Garcon should be good enough to be a number 1. I think, given the NFL today, you need to assemble a group of good to very good receivers, instead of one great one and a bunch of above average ones. I look at the Packers, Broncos, Saints, Patriots, Falcons, etc over the last couple seasons and they're teams that have a lot of good receivers, but no one that is head and shoulder better than everyone else. Last year, the Bears were near the bottom in passing. This year, they're near the top. The emergence of Alshon Jeffery is quite noticeable along with Bennette and Forte staying healthy. Right now, offenses are leaning more towards this rather than getting that sure fire number 1 and neglecting the other receiver spots.

The Redskins have been trying to get by with Hankerson/Morgan as the number 2 and Moss in the slot, while hoping Robinson can develop into something more than a 4th receiver who runs fly routes. This has to change. Top two priorites this offseason have to be building the Oline, particularly the RT and C slots, and getting better options to catch the ball.

[Mathguy]

I can't say I agree with this WashPost article by Jason Reid.  After all, this one game was against the other worst team in the NFC and not representative of anything

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/kirk-cousinss-play-gives-mike-shanahan-kyle-shanahan-something-to-smile-about/2013/12/15/71de4bfa-65e7-11e3-ae56-22de072140a2_story.html

[Smithian]

I can't say I agree with this WashPost article by Jason Reid.  After all, this one game was against the other worst team in the NFC and not representative of anything

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/kirk-cousinss-play-gives-mike-shanahan-kyle-shanahan-something-to-smile-about/2013/12/15/71de4bfa-65e7-11e3-ae56-22de072140a2_story.html

I hope Cousins succeeds to the point that a team falls in love with him and offers the Skins multiple pics in the Rounds 2-3 range. That would be a winner.

Cousins won't beat a healthy RGIII out for the starting job next season. Simply won't happen so I am not wasting time considering the possibility.

[Slateman]

I hope Cousins succeeds to the point that a team falls in love with him and offers the Skins multiple pics in the Rounds 2-3 range. That would be a winner.

Cousins won't beat a healthy RGIII out for the starting job next season. Simply won't happen so I am not wasting time considering the possibility.

Rather trade Griffin. He's a right handed Mike Vick.

[Smithian]

Rather trade Griffin. He's a right handed Mike Vick.

Because he had a bad season on a terrible team after he missed an entire offseason?

Kirk Cousins should have been starting at the beginning of this season when RGIII just wasn't ready. Could have prevented a lot of this. By the time RGIII could move around a bit the season was for all intents and purposes over.