Washington Redskins thread (2013)

[machpost]

Someone please explain this to me: With the announced paid attendance of today's game at 56,247, why wasn't the game blacked out? Have the rules changed?

[spidernat]

club level seats don't figure into the rules for blackouts.

[Smithian]

This blogger takes Shanahan to task; http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/12/9/5191564/must-read-mike-shanahans-brilliant-last-act-by-kc-clyburn

I'm with him that I am not putting this on Snyder. He isn't perfect but this failure is more Shanahan.

The whole situation stinks.

[PC]

Thankfully, I'm not the only one who has to defend Dan Snyder...

...but this particular crap storm is absolutely not his fault.  The salary cap penalty (probably the origin of the problem) is not his fault.  This terrible roster isn't his fault.  The fact that this terrible roster is playing like they've never played or seen a football game before is not his fault.   He's not drawing up or calling the plays or "preparing" the team during the week.  Did Dan Snyder go out looking for a special teams coach and come back with Keith Burns?  If Keith Burns is your special teams coach then you obviously don't care about special teams.

And some seem to be shocked that Robert Griffin is his favorite player.  Shock!  The owner of a team has a favorite player!!!  EVERY owner has a favorite player!  That has nothing to do with how the team plays and if it does then there's something wrong with the players chosen to be on the team, again not his doing.  Is this the first time these players have ever  dealt with people in authority?  People in authority frequently have favorites.  If you're not the favorite, you learn to deal with it AND DO YOUR DAMNED JOB!

[GburgNatsFan]

I don't think anyone cares that Griffin is Snyder's favorite player. Many of us are concerned, however, that Snyder is the kind of fanboi/wannabe that would allow his man-crush to get in the way of better judgement. Does he support Griffin more than he does the coach? Did he force the coach to take him at extraordinary expense? Did he tell Shanahan to "play him or else?" Did he give Griffin the impression that Griffin, not Shanny, was in charge?

No one that's watched Snyder over the years doubts that he would do any of these things.

Thankfully, I'm not the only one who has to defend Dan Snyder...

...but this particular crap storm is absolutely not his fault.  The salary cap penalty (probably the origin of the problem) is not his fault.  This terrible roster isn't his fault.  The fact that this terrible roster is playing like they've never played or seen a football game before is not his fault.   He's not drawing up or calling the plays or "preparing" the team during the week.  Did Dan Snyder go out looking for a special teams coach and come back with Keith Burns?  If Keith Burns is your special teams coach then you obviously don't care about special teams.

And some seem to be shocked that Robert Griffin is his favorite player.  Shock!  The owner of a team has a favorite player!!!  EVERY owner has a favorite player!  That has nothing to do with how the team plays and if it does then there's something wrong with the players chosen to be on the team, again not his doing.  Is this the first time these players have ever  dealt with people in authority?  People in authority frequently have favorites.  If you're not the favorite, you learn to deal with it AND DO YOUR DAMNED JOB!

[HalfSmokes]

I don't think anyone cares that Griffin is Snyder's favorite player. Many of us are concerned, however, that Snyder is the kind of fanboi/wannabe that would allow his man-crush to get in the way of better judgement. Does he support Griffin more than he does the coach? Did he force the coach to take him at extraordinary expense? Did he tell Shanahan to "play him or else?" Did he give Griffin the impression that Griffin, not Shanny, was in charge?

No one that's watched Snyder over the years doubts that he would do any of these things.

I'm sure crap will get leaked saying that Shanny was forced to take griffen, however, 1) everything we've read about Shanny's contract says he's in change of player personel, 2) shanny never said crap until things went south- he was perfectly happy to take credit when it looked like a good pick and 3) if the pick backfired, it's shanny legacy that takes a hit

[PC]

I don't think anyone cares that Griffin is Snyder's favorite player. Many of us are concerned, however, that Snyder is the kind of fanboi/wannabe that would allow his man-crush to get in the way of better judgement. Does he support Griffin more than he does the coach? Did he force the coach to take him at extraordinary expense? Did he tell Shanahan to "play him or else?" Did he give Griffin the impression that Griffin, not Shanny, was in charge?

No one that's watched Snyder over the years doubts that he would do any of these things.

Except there's no actual evidence that any of those things happened.

[GburgNatsFan]

Except there's no actual evidence that any of those things happened.

It's the price Dan Snyder pays for having been a Fantasy Football owner for years and years.

Dan Snyder needs to complete his metamorphosis  by hiring an excellent personnel oriented GM, and letting him hire a coach. We don't need a new big name coach. We need a younger, hungry guy that comes from an team with excellent organizational characteristics. Like the Pats.

[HalfSmokes]

It's the price Dan Snyder pays for having been a Fantasy Football owner for years and years.

Dan Snyder needs to complete his metamorphosis  by hiring an excellent personnel oriented GM, and letting him hire a coach. We don't need a new big name coach. We need a younger, hungry guy that comes from an team with excellent organizational characteristics. Like the Pats.

he hired allen and shanny and stepped back. He said nothing after two embarrassing seasons, he didn't take credit last year and he hasn't said anything this year

[mitlen]

Dan Snyder needs to complete his metamorphosis  by hiring an excellent personnel oriented GM, and letting him hire a coach. We don't need a new big name coach. We need a younger, hungry guy that comes from an team with excellent organizational characteristics. Like the Pats.

Snyder's owned the team for what?   Twenty years?    Who do you think is gonna come here and believe his bullcrap?

[imref]

It's the price Dan Snyder pays for having been a Fantasy Football owner for years and years.

Dan Snyder needs to complete his metamorphosis  by hiring an excellent personnel oriented GM, and letting him hire a coach. We don't need a new big name coach. We need a younger, hungry guy that comes from an team with excellent organizational characteristics. Like the Pats.

nah, Dan should just pull a Jerry Jones and become is own GM, then hire Vinny to coach.

[PC]

Snyder's owned the team for what?   Twenty years?    Who do you think is gonna come here and believe his bullcrap?

Dan Snyder is a completely different owner now than he was when he first bought the team.  The original Dan Snyder sent melted ice cream to then defensive coordinator Mike Nolan as commentary on his defense.  TODS was responsible for signing over the hill, former great players.

This Dan Snyder, from all indications, is nothing like that Dan Snyder.  If that Dan Snyder had Jim Haslett as his defensive coordinator, God only know what he would have sent him.

[mitlen]

Dan Snyder is a completely different owner now than he was when he first bought the team.  The original Dan Snyder sent melted ice cream to then defensive coordinator Mike Nolan as commentary on his defense.  TODS was responsible for signing over the hill, former great players.

This Dan Snyder, from all indications, is nothing like that Dan Snyder.  If that Dan Snyder had Jim Haslett as his defensive coordinator, God only know what he would have sent him.

...   and the result has changed how?    I got no dog in this fight.   Dan Snyder is Dan Snyder.   He has 20 years of written history.    He hired Shanahan for lots of money 'cause that's what he (and everyone else in town) thought would work.    He hired Zorn, Gibbs II, Shottenheimer, the ball coach, Vinnie, Allen, etc.    Who do you think Dan Snyder is gonna hire?    Dan Snyder is not a people/personnel guy.   He's an electronic gadget guy.   He doesn't know how to hire an exceptional GM who will hire an exceptional coach.

I'm beginning to feel like I do every July when I tell my buddy, "The 'skins are not going to the Super Bowl."  and he tries to convince me otherwise.   

[PC]

...   and the result has changed how?    I got no dog in this fight.   Dan Snyder is Dan Snyder.   He has 20 years of written history.    He hired Shanahan for lots of money 'cause that's what he (and everyone else in town) thought would work.    He hired Zorn, Gibbs II, Shottenheimer, the ball coach, Vinnie, Allen, etc.    Who do you think Dan Snyder is gonna hire?    Dan Snyder is not a people/personnel guy.   He's an electronic gadget guy.   He doesn't know how to hire an exceptional GM who will hire an exceptional coach.

If his recent hires are any indication, he's going to hire a President in charge of Football Operations and let him hire the GM and coach.

[HalfSmokes]

...   and the result has changed how?    I got no dog in this fight.   Dan Snyder is Dan Snyder.   He has 20 years of written history.    He hired Shanahan for lots of money 'cause that's what he (and everyone else in town) thought would work.    He hired Zorn, Gibbs II, Shottenheimer, the ball coach, Vinnie, Allen, etc.    Who do you think Dan Snyder is gonna hire?    Dan Snyder is not a people/personnel guy.   He's an electronic gadget guy.   He doesn't know how to hire an exceptional GM who will hire an exceptional coach.

he hired bruce allen. Aside from his ties to the region, he was the GM of the bucs for four years, so it's not like he was without experience

[mitlen]

If his recent hires are any indication, he's going to hire a President in charge of Football Operations and let him hire the GM and coach.

he hired bruce allen. Aside from his ties to the region, he was the GM of the bucs for four years, so it's not like he was without experience

"The 'skins are not going to the Super Bowl."

[GburgNatsFan]

If his recent hires are any indication, he's going to hire a President in charge of Football Operations and let him hire the GM and coach.

Evidence would indicate that you are right, that Snyder has changed a lot. The next hire will be very telling.

I'm just always afraid that he really hasn't, and that players like McNabb and Griffin were basically his decisions.

[spidernat]

  @ defending Snyder. Shanahan is undoubtedly a piece of crap. But I blame all three parties equally. I blame Shanahan, Griffin and Snyder. Snyder has been the common denominator for all the crap that has gone on around here for the past 15 years. They used to claim there was no evidence of him making personnel decisions when Cerrato was here. I don't for a minute doubt that Snyder pushed for both McNabb and Griffin. I always contended that neither fit Shanahan's preference for QB and both have ended badly for this very reason. A fanboi like Snyder should not be allowed to own anything but a fantasy football team. The Snyder apologist that wrote that says the cap penalty is not Snyder's fault but the reason they had to do what they did to begin with was to try to get from under the mess Snyder had been creating with awful contracts that kept pushing the envelope and mortgaging the future including the Haynesworth monstrosity and what he signed D'Angelo Hall for. As an example, Brandon Lloyd counted for over 5 million of dead cap space in 2009! Brandon freaking Lloyd! Not to mention all the money he kept giving his best friend Clinton Portis . This has been going on for well over a decade and when they saw a chance to get out from under it they tried it and it backfired. So to absolve Snyder for that is idiotic.

[HalfSmokes]

  @ defending Snyder. Shanahan is undoubtedly a piece of crap. But I blame all three parties equally. I blame Shanahan, Griffin and Snyder. Snyder has been the common denominator for all the crap that has gone on around here for the past 15 years. They used to claim there was no evidence of him making personnel decisions when Cerrato was here. I don't for a minute doubt that Snyder pushed for both McNabb and Griffin. I always contended that neither fit Shanahan's preference for QB and both have ended badly for this very reason. A fanboi like Snyder should not be allowed to own anything but a fantasy football team. The Snyder apologist that wrote that says the cap penalty is not Snyder's fault but the reason they had to do what they did to begin with was to try to get from under the mess Snyder had been creating with awful contracts that kept pushing the envelope and mortgaging the future including the Haynesworth monstrosity and what he signed D'Angelo Hall for. As an example, Brandon Lloyd counted for over 5 million of dead cap space in 2009! Brandon freaking Lloyd! Not to mention all the money he kept giving his best friend Clinton Portis . This has been going on for well over a decade and when they saw a chance to get out from under it they tried it and it backfired. So to absolve Snyder for that is idiotic.

so all the media outtlets reporting on shanny's contract were lying?

[Natsinpwc]

It's all poetic justice.  They really hung Zorn out to dry and intentionally tried to make him look worse than he was. Was really low class given that he was unqualified when they hired him.

Now Snyder runs into someone just as manipulative as himself with lots of league collections.  In retrospect was bound to happen if the team didn't do well.

Not a redskins fan but do feel for the fans who have to put up with this. What's the chance of getting a decent coach with Snyder around? Slim to none.

[mitlen]

Here we go  ...   hang on

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/redskins-looking-whether-could-fire-mike-shanahan-cause-171253868--nfl.html

[spidernat]

so all the media outtlets reporting on shanny's contract were lying?

No but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the owner still wanted something and Shanahan caved in to his desires for one reason or another. In the end Shanahan is still responsible for it since he had to sign off on what transpired but I still maintain those two were not players he would've brought in absent Dan Snyder.

It's all poetic justice.  They really hung Zorn out to dry and intentionally tried to make him look worse than he was. Was really low class given that he was unqualified when they hired him.

That's the point I tried to make regarding Snyder. He has created (for over a decade) a toxic environment around this franchise. I don't absolve Shanahan or Griffin from blame when I say this. But things always end badly around here because of the atmosphere around Redskins Park. And right now they are reporting that Redskins Park has all the major national media camping out. The place looks like Nationals Park did for the home playoff series.    Beginning with Norv Turner on to Marty Schottenheimer over to Steve Spurrier and Joe Gibbs the debacle with Jim Zorn and now Mike Shanahan things indubitably end badly and Dan Snyder is the common denominator.

When all is said and done I blame all of them. One for creating and perpetuating an awful atmosphere, one for being a complete piece of crap and one for being a diva who seemed more concerned with advancing his popularity and falling for the media hype and ridiculous worship some fans heaped on him.

Not a redskins fan but do feel for the fans who have to put up with this. What's the chance of getting a decent coach with Snyder around? Slim to none.

Some are reporting that Griffin will get his way and get his college coach.    Others are reporting that Lovie Smith may be the next coach here. 

[HalfSmokes]

Some are reporting that Griffin will get his way and get his college coach.    Others are reporting that Lovie Smith may be the next coach here. 

you forgot the second I actually don't blame Snyder at all this time around. He did what everyone asked him to- he hired an experienced powerful coach and gave him a contract that left him in charge. That coach careened from one blunder to another- old Snyder would have fired him long before he did- but was still given the time to let things play out. Most coaches and GMs aren't successful, over the past 30 years, only 15 franchises have won a superbowl- those aren't great odds for any individual team or coach in a given year. I don't expect the next guy to win- the cupboard is every bit as bare as when shanny started and RG3 seems like a coach killer (how many elite QBs undermine their coaches in the media?), hopefully the guy after has some luck.

[mitlen]

(how many elite QBs undermine their coaches in the media?)

Perhaps not as blatant as RGIII but I can think of one.   

[spidernat]

I don't think Lovie Smith is as bad as some seem to think but he needs a strong structure surrounding him. He will need a good GM and to assemble a great coaching staff. I think OC, DC and position coaches are crucial to long term success. One of our main issues has been not bringing in the right players but also not having the right staff to coach them.

As for Shanahan, maybe Snyder will learn an additional lesson over this. Don't forget that Shanahan was the big name he wanted when he first took over the Redskins. He was enamored with Shanahan after meeting him coming off two SB victories but when he took over he was not allowed to try to pluck him away from Denver due to the timing of the transfer and I don't think Pat Bowlen was willing to part ways with Shanahan at that time. When he finally got his way, ten years later, it blew up in his face.