Fielder

[PC]

Again and I know this has been discussed but why would "signing xxx next year" be any truer than signing xxx any other year.  Every year is next year and xxx never gets signed.

[MarquisDeSade]

Nobody wants to hear about the future, they want gratification now.

At some point you have to pull the trigger and do something to improve the team other than hoping long shot lottery tickets (i.e. draft picks) turn out to be winners.

[PANatsFan]

Again and I know this has been discussed but why would "signing xxx next year" be any truer than signing xxx any other year.  Every year is next year and xxx never gets signed.

SIGN XXX 8-)

[JCA-CrystalCity]

At some point you have to pull the trigger and do something to improve the team other than hoping long shot lottery tickets (i.e. draft picks) turn out to be winners.

Lots of people are tired of the "2 years from now is our year" line, but I don't know anyone who can say that the projected FA class next year isn't better than this one.  This has been visible for a few years. 

[Lintyfresh85]

Lots of people are tired of the "2 years from now is our year" line, but I don't know anyone who can say that the projected FA class next year isn't better than this one.  This has been visible for a few years. 

Some will re-sign before FA... etc. etc. Things happen.

And we'll be in the same place we are now, next year... hoping that 2014 will be the year something good happens for the fair market Nats.

[tomterp]

Are you suggesting we're wrong... and should wait another year for a mythical FA to hopefully, maybe, fingers crossed, sign?

If you choose between a guaranteed "player A" this year, or a much better "player B" next year, it seems most are opting for the lesser player A because they want it now.

Another way of viewing this is that nobody wants to hear about what 2013 might be, and are fully willing to handcuff the club now regardless for the downstream impact.

If you thing the Lerners are willing, ready and able to spend up to max levels, then fine, let's sign Fielder and all the rest of the guys.  But the realist in me says that's BS, they aren't going to spend freely, so how can it be spent with most effect?  Teddy has a valid perspective but he's not getting fair hearing in all the "sign Fielder now damnit" hysteria.

[tomterp]

At some point you have to pull the trigger and do something to improve the team other than hoping long shot lottery tickets (i.e. draft picks) turn out to be winners.

There are only so many bullets in that gun - you've got to employ them to best effect.

[Lintyfresh85]

If you choose between a guaranteed "player A" this year, or a much better "player B" next year, it seems most are opting for the lesser player A because they want it now.

Another way of viewing this is that nobody wants to hear about what 2013 might be, and are fully willing to handcuff the club now regardless for the downstream impact.

If you thing the Lerners are willing, ready and able to spend up to max levels, then fine, let's sign Fielder and all the rest of the guys.  But the realist in me says that's BS, they aren't going to spend freely, so how can it be spent with most effect?  Teddy has a valid perspective but he's not getting fair hearing in all the "sign Fielder now damnit" hysteria.

Why should we support the team at all if the owners refuse to be 100% committed to the team?

No BS'ing... that's a serious question.

[PC]

AGAIN, why would they be more willing to sign xxx next year than Fielder this year?  EVERY YEAR IS NEXT YEAR FOR THIS FRANCHISE and all we've ever gotten is albatross!!! 

[tomterp]

Lots of people are tired of the "2 years from now is our year" line, but I don't know anyone who can say that the projected FA class next year isn't better than this one.  This has been visible for a few years.

Stop talking sense.  Nobody wants to hear it.

[tomterp]

Why should we support the team at all if the owners refuse to be 100% committed to the team?

No BS'ing... that's a serious question.

What in their history makes you think they are ever going to be 100% committed?  Stop dreaming.

[Lintyfresh85]

Stop talking sense.  Nobody wants to hear it.

Why not end your post with

Sanity.



To me, what makes sense is to jump on the best FA 27 years old or younger to be on the market since the year 2000... at a time when his market and negotiating power is at its weakest rather than hope and pray that the team is able to land some mythical FA next off season.

[tomterp]

Why not end your post with

Sanity.



To me, what makes sense is to jump on the best FA 27 years old or younger to be on the market since the year 2000... at a time when his market and negotiating power is at its weakest rather than hope and pray that the team is able to land some mythical FA next off season.

Sure, sign him if the cost works, but stop imagining that the Lerners are going to spend in unlimited fashion, because they aren't. In the context of a very tight budget it makes sense to consider value that might be had in 2013 vs now, especially in view of the arb eligible core players we have that are definitely going to be earning more.

[tomterp]

Again and I know this has been discussed but why would "signing xxx next year" be any truer than signing xxx any other year.  Every year is next year and xxx never gets signed.

So why is signing xxx this year any different than signing xxx next year? 

[PC]

So why is signing xxx this year any different than signing xxx next year? 

Because if we sign xxx this year, xxx would be signed.  No speculation about next year needed.

[aspenbubba]

I am not going back into this thread and search for my comments on immediate gratification  but signing Fielder could be as detrimental to the future of this team as the Werthless contract signed last year. Tom terp is absolutely right and so are a few others. Wait for the FA class of next year and pick up the lead-off CF and another SP to replace Wang. The ONLY player we can count on from the system is Harper. Everyone else is conjecture.

[tomterp]

Because if we sign xxx this year, xxx would be signed.  No speculation about next year needed.

But we haven't signed xxx this year yet, have we?  Seems to be we're doing a fair amount of speculation on that point as well.

[Lintyfresh85]

Sure, sign him if the cost works, but stop imagining that the Lerners are going to spend in unlimited fashion, because they aren't. In the context of a very tight budget it makes sense to consider value that might be had in 2013 vs now, especially in view of the arb eligible core players we have that are definitely going to be earning more.

Define your core players because this is what I consider the core

Ramos
2012 - MIN
2013 - MIN
2014 - ARB1 - Low Salary
2015 - ARB2 - Medium Salary

Espinosa
2012 - MIN
2013 - MIN
2014 - ARB1
2015 - ARB2

Harper
2012 - 1.7
2013 - 2.0
2014 - 2.15
2015 - 2.25

Strasburg
2012 - 4.75
2013 - ARB1
2014 - ARB2
2015 - ARB3

JZ
2012 - ARB1
2013 - ARB2
2014 - ARB3
2015 - ARB4

Gio
2012 - ARB1
2013 - ARB2
2014 - ARB3
2015 - ARB4

That's the core as I see it... and I don't see a ton of money having to be thrown at it through arbitration. Also, there's no law that says the Nats have to pay arbitration rates on these guys when they can lock them up at any time.

[UMDNats]

Lots of people are tired of the "2 years from now is our year" line, but I don't know anyone who can say that the projected FA class next year isn't better than this one.  This has been visible for a few years. 

Are those players guaranteed to be free agents, though? We say that now but I don't buy that all those players will be available.

Free agent center fielders will be hot commodities, much more than the market for Fielder is right now. Why would Victorino sign here when he can sign anywhere (or stay in Philly)? Bourn will be the #1 free agent and Upton will also be wanted by a ton of teams.

[PC]

I am not going back into this thread and search for my comments on immediate gratification  but signing Fielder could be as detrimental to the future of this team as the Werthless contract signed last year. Tom terp is absolutely right and so are a few others. Wait for the FA class of next year and pick up the lead-off CF and another SP to replace Wang. The ONLY player we can count on from the system is Harper. Everyone else is conjecture.

So we're punting this year, in other words?

[tomterp]

I am not going back into this thread and search for my comments on immediate gratification  but signing Fielder could be as detrimental to the future of this team as the Werthless contract signed last year. Tom terp is absolutely right and so are a few others. Wait for the FA class of next year and pick up the lead-off CF and another SP to replace Wang. The ONLY player we can count on from the system is Harper. Everyone else is conjecture.

To be sure, I'm not against signing Fielder, but I am against signing him at a price that will impede our ability to play in the 2013 market and/or to sign the key core pieces we have in place already to longer deals.  I am a realist in that I recognize that if we pay too much for Fielder, we WON'T have much flexibility to operate for the next few years.  That's the concern.  It's irrelevant if the Nats have the money to do all of it.  What is relevant is if they are WILLING to spend it.  And so far the empirical evidence is NO, they are not.

[PC]

Are those players guaranteed to be free agents, though? We say that now but I don't buy that all those players will be available.

And other teams will want those players too!  Remember "fair market" Mike Rizzo is our GM.

[The Chief]

Nobody wants to hear about the future, they want gratification now. 

We were promised gratification now 2 years ago, and pretty much every year before and since.

[tomterp]

That's the core as I see it... and I don't see a ton of money having to be thrown at it through arbitration. Also, there's no law that says the Nats have to pay arbitration rates on these guys when they can lock them up at any time.

You've got to include Zimmerman.

Morse, Clippard, and Storen deserve some consideration as well.

[Lintyfresh85]

You've got to include Zimmerman.

Morse, Clippard, and Storen deserve some consideration as well.

According to you, the Lerners are never going to spend, and I should get used to it... so why factor Zimmerman into my calculations?