Author Topic: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing  (Read 115987 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 18070
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1375 on: January 21, 2010, 02:22:22 am »
Yeah, that was a bad 8 starts, but his season was solid on the overall. Shoot, Johan Santana had a stretch just like that last season. Doesn't mean he's a terrible pitcher.

Washburn isn't a great pitcher, but he is not that bad. He's better than most of our guys.

I read another post on a board I know Linty frequents that basically said Washburn's success last year is because of the defense in Seattle. I do not want Washburn at all.

Offline ronnynat

  • Posts: 23269
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1376 on: January 21, 2010, 02:37:59 am »
I read another post on a board I know Linty frequents that basically said Washburn's success last year is because of the defense in Seattle. I do not want Washburn at all.

I don't either. I'm just saying that he isn't terrible. I honestly wouldn't be upset if we got him, though.

Seattle did/does have an awesome defense, but that wasn't Washburn's first decent season. He does pitch to contact, so he does need a decent defense behind him. So does Lannan. So do most pitchers.

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 35152
  • World Champions!!!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1377 on: January 21, 2010, 02:50:23 am »
He's really not better than most of the Nationals pitchers.

The reason he had a good year was completely dependent on the combo of Mariners D/Safeco

Pitching stats in 2009

Mariners
Home - 6-6, 2.31 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, .298 SLG, .228 BABIP (Mariners D and Safeco playing strongly to his strengths)
Away - 3-4, 3.05 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, .377 SLG, .265 BABIP (Mariners D still strong, but no Safeco starts to show true numbers)

Tigers
Home - 0-3, 8.16 ERA, 1.46 WHIP, .637 SLG, .258 BABIP (No Mariners D, and Comerica is no Safeco)
Away - 1-0, 4.91 ERA, 1.81 WHIP, .413 SLG, .333 BABIP (Once again, numbers elevated away from Safeco and no Mariners D)

BABIP - Mariners - .245
BABIP - Tigers - .281
BABIP - League Average in 2009 - .303

Washburn is washed up. If he's on the Nats this year.... he's not putting up an ERA lower than 4.75.

Plus, the bum rejected a 5 million dollar deal for one year with the Twins... the Nats don't need to be spending that type of money on him.

Offline ronnynat

  • Posts: 23269
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1378 on: January 21, 2010, 03:02:05 am »
The Mariners pitching staff was solid last year. So was their defense.

Washburn is a flyball pitcher. Unless you honestly believe that a lot of those flyballs wouldn't have been caught by most outfielders, the numbers wouldn't be too different on most other teams.

And yes, he was better than most of the Nats pitchers. Even Lannan.

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 35152
  • World Champions!!!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1379 on: January 21, 2010, 03:11:11 am »
Gutierrez lead all of baseball in UZR, Ichiro was 10th in the AL in UZR.

Yeah, I'd say their OF'ers had a lot to do with Washburn's success.

Mariners OF Range Rating : 62.9 - 1st in all of Baseball
Giants OF Range Rating : 43.6 - 2nd in all of Baseball
Nationals OF Range Rating : -11.0 - 18th in all of Baseball

He'd bomb here.

Offline ronnynat

  • Posts: 23269
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1380 on: January 21, 2010, 03:20:08 am »
Gutierrez lead all of baseball in UZR, Ichiro was 10th in the AL in UZR.

Yeah, I'd say their OF'ers had a lot to do with Washburn's success.

Mariners OF Range Rating : 62.9 - 1st in all of Baseball
Giants OF Range Rating : 43.6 - 2nd in all of Baseball
Nationals OF Range Rating : -11.0 - 18th in all of Baseball

He'd bomb here.

I'm guessing you never watched the guy pitch last season. :lol:  I've seen all of the stats that you keep bringing over from FanGraphs, but in the end, he pitched really well last year. He walked less hitters and he pitched to his defense, like he's supposed to.

Gutierrez is more arm than range, but he is a good outfielder.

Offline PANatsFan

  • Posts: 37398
  • dogs in uncensored, nudes in gameday
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1381 on: January 21, 2010, 03:21:24 am »
Gutierrez lead all of baseball in UZR, Ichiro was 10th in the AL in UZR.

Yeah, I'd say their OF'ers had a lot to do with Washburn's success.

Mariners OF Range Rating : 62.9 - 1st in all of Baseball
Giants OF Range Rating : 43.6 - 2nd in all of Baseball
Nationals OF Range Rating : -11.0 - 18th in all of Baseball

He'd bomb here.

Take a look at Nyjer's UZR/150, and you'll see that the -11 is misleading. Plug in Dukes in RF instead of Willingham, and move Willingham to left instead of Dunn. They won't be 18th this year, especially if Hammer is traded and Maxwell plays instead.

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 35152
  • World Champions!!!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1382 on: January 21, 2010, 03:33:52 am »

Gutierrez is more arm than range, but he is a good outfielder.

Considering his nickname is 'Death to Flying Things' I sincerely question your assessment of his defense.

Add into the fact that his Range rating of 29.3 is 10.8 points higher than the second best fielder in the game and the fact that his arm rating is only 23rd highest among OF'ers....

Hell Nyjer Morgan's arm rating is a 10.1, Franklin is at a low 1.8.

I'm 100% certain your scouting report on Franklin couldn't be more wrong.


Offline ronnynat

  • Posts: 23269
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1383 on: January 21, 2010, 03:47:19 am »
Considering his nickname is 'Death to Flying Things' I sincerely question your assessment of his defense.

Add into the fact that his Range rating of 29.3 is 10.8 points higher than the second best fielder in the game and the fact that his arm rating is only 23rd highest among OF'ers....

Hell Nyjer Morgan's arm rating is a 10.1, Franklin is at a low 1.8.

I'm 100% certain your scouting report on Franklin couldn't be more wrong.

Have you seen either guy play? Are you basing all of this on FanGraphs' stats? I'm not talking crap. I'm actually curious.

Gutierrez has one hell of an arm. One of the strongest out there. Morgan's is weak. And no, I'm not talking about accuracy.

I never said Gutierrez had no range. He does. His "range rating" doesn't mean much to me, though.

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 35152
  • World Champions!!!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1384 on: January 21, 2010, 03:52:28 am »
Have you seen either guy play? Are you basing all of this on FanGraphs' stats? I'm not talking crap. I'm actually curious.

Gutierrez has one hell of an arm. One of the strongest out there. Morgan's is weak. And no, I'm not talking about accuracy.

I never said Gutierrez had no range. He does. His "range rating" doesn't mean much to me, though.

Considering I've seen pretty much every Indians game played since MLB.tv was first announced... yeah... I'd say I've seen him play.

Also... what good is a strong arm if you can't hit the broad side of a barn (something Franklin has problems with, btw). Nyjer might throw like a girl, but he gets the ball to where it needs to be in a timely fashion.

You said his arm was the strongest part of his game. I've seen him play a ton... my observation and the stats show that he's 'more arm than range' is in fact, not correct.

Offline ronnynat

  • Posts: 23269
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1385 on: January 21, 2010, 04:00:09 am »
We disagree then. His arm is stronger (I should have said "gun" instead of "arm" above) than most CFs while his range is actually matched by quite a few. Morgan and Bourn have as much range as he does (don't care what FanGraphs tells you :D), but what makes Gutierrez stand out is the fact that he has that gun to go along w/ it.

Damn, we derailed the hell out of this thread. I do like these chats, though.

Offline Nathan

  • Posts: 10726
  • Wow. Such warnings. Very baseball. Moderator Doge.
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1386 on: January 21, 2010, 04:03:23 am »
Thread derailment on WNFF!?  Well I never!

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 35152
  • World Champions!!!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1387 on: January 21, 2010, 04:18:42 am »
We disagree then. His arm is stronger (I should have said "gun" instead of "arm" above) than most CFs while his range is actually matched by quite a few. Morgan and Bourn have as much range as he does (don't care what FanGraphs tells you :D), but what makes Gutierrez stand out is the fact that he has that gun to go along w/ it.

Damn, we derailed the hell out of this thread. I do like these chats, though.

One last thing to add about Gutierrez.

Among all starting CF'ers in the AL in 2009, Franklin lead the group in throwing errors (4). I know that seems like a small number, but 4 throwing errors for an MLB OF'er is piss poor.... and, as I said... its tops in all of the AL.

So... strong arm/little control.

For comparison - Adam Dunn has played in 1098 games as an OF'er over a 9 year span... and he only has 11 OF throwing errors in the amount of time they've been tracking throwing errors vs. fielding errors.

Offline aspenbubba

  • Posts: 6083
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1388 on: January 21, 2010, 06:49:39 am »
Pineiro and Davis are gone. Garland , Washburn, Padilla, Looper remain and I am thinking that most do not want to come here at any price ( or at the largest offer) and that isn't good. Marquis signed with us only because he felt that it was the top offer he would get. Sheets is too great a risk and if he signs with us it should be an incentive laden contract.

Hudsons' demands don't make sense and I see him going elsewhere. I am not optimistic that we will get a MI and SP to make the team palatable for the fans. Prove me wrong Rizzo.

Offline HTT

  • Posts: 212
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1389 on: January 21, 2010, 07:04:23 am »
If we want a second baseman so badly, Rizzo should call the Rockies.  They have Barmes and Eric Young, Jr.  Doubt they would trade Young, but you may be able to pry Barmes loose.  He's supposed to be a pretty good fielder.  Bat is erratic, though.  Does have a little pop and speed.  I think he just signed for 2+ million deal as an arbitration eligible. 

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 45476
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1390 on: January 21, 2010, 08:31:09 am »
If the Nats were to try to add another starting pitcher, then I would like to see them go after a high upside, riskier starter either coming back from injury or an off season than a safe average to slightly below average filler type.  Garland is a bit better than that (average to slightly above), but at this point in his career, that is what Washburn's true talent is.   Sheets, Bedard, Wang, are still out there. 

The way I see the rotation setting up is that we will get close to 400 innings from Marquis and Lannan, and I'm pretty certain we can come up with viable 4th / 5th starters from among Detwiler, Stammen, Ballester, and Martin.  I'd peg that combo for more than 350 innings.  What we want is about another 180 innings or so out of our nominal 3d starter to get in the range of 930 innings.  That would have been 10th in the NL last year, with 942 as league average.  Right now, #3 would be Olsen, who, when healthy, is a 180+ inning pitcher, but is coming off an injury.  If you can get comparable or better quality, and figure on getting a few months out of that risky signing, you can figure to fill in that 180+ innings with the Olsen / ? combo. 

There will be some time when both are healthy, in which case you push one of the #4/ #5s back to the minors, and there will be some time when both will be down (or Lannan and / or Marquis may lose time), in which case you will probably have to have 3 of the Det/Mustache/Stammen/JD combo in the rotation, but, on balance, it should work in terms of innings.  When you add in maybe 20 - 40 innings from either Strasburg or a recovered JZ at the end of the year, you will end up with 950 - 970 IP out of your starters, which would be top half of the league.

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 20386
  • BOOM!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1391 on: January 21, 2010, 08:46:13 am »
The more I think about it, the more I want Ben Sheets in a Nats uniform.  Again, I understand it'd have to be at the right price, but that'd be awesome if we go after him hard.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

And in true hammondsnats form:  SCREW THE PRICE!  PAY THE MAN!

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 20386
  • BOOM!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1392 on: January 21, 2010, 08:49:32 am »
If we want a second baseman so badly, Rizzo should call the Rockies.  They have Barmes and Eric Young, Jr.  Doubt they would trade Young, but you may be able to pry Barmes loose.  He's supposed to be a pretty good fielder.  Bat is erratic, though.  Does have a little pop and speed.  I think he just signed for 2+ million deal as an arbitration eligible. 

I like this way of thinking..... Do we know much else about Barmes?

Offline houston-nat

  • Posts: 19056
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1393 on: January 21, 2010, 09:31:05 am »
I like this way of thinking..... Do we know much else about Barmes?

Didn't he get injured carrying meat or something?

Offline blue911

  • Posts: 18594
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1394 on: January 21, 2010, 09:33:40 am »
Didn't he get injured carrying meat or something?

Carrying Meat = Being Drunk?

Offline Lintyfresh85

  • Posts: 35152
  • World Champions!!!
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1395 on: January 21, 2010, 11:09:04 am »
Didn't he get injured carrying meat or something?

Slipped on Deer meat.

Yes sir.

Offline PANatsFan

  • Posts: 37398
  • dogs in uncensored, nudes in gameday
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1396 on: January 21, 2010, 11:26:27 am »
:clap: :clap: :clap:

And in true hammondsnats form:  SCREW THE PRICE!  PAY THE MAN!

Just discovered today that Sheetz has 4 dollar footlongs. 4 dollars, not five. Maybe it's a sign.

Also, sign Padilla. The clubhouse is full of good guys right now, and I think he wants to rehab his image. Get it done, Rizzo.

Offline sportsfan882

  • Posts: 93631
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1397 on: January 21, 2010, 12:22:05 pm »
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/olney-on-lee-pineiro-orioles.html

Quote
Consequences of the Angels' Joel Pineiro deal: the Mets could sign Jon Garland or Ben Sheets, and the Dodgers could bring Vicente Padilla back.  Newsday's Ken Davidoff gets the sense the Mets "have prioritized Sheets over Garland."

No one left for the Nats. I called it back after they signed Marquis. He would be their only substantial SP signing. We might bring in a Livan or some bum like that but that's it in terms of SPs.

Offline The Chief

  • Posts: 31838
    • http://www.wnff.net
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1398 on: January 21, 2010, 12:24:37 pm »
Right you called it.  I'm so butt-cised about the season starting tomorrow.

Offline sportsfan882

  • Posts: 93631
Re: 2010 Offseason Wheeling and Dealing
« Reply #1399 on: January 21, 2010, 12:27:01 pm »
which SP could we realistically sign that's not a bum?

Our rotation should be better this year but it's still a weakness unless certain guys really step up this year.