Plan "B"

[HalfSmokes]

Hold on.  Not everyone is FLop.  And I actually was excited about FLop when he first arrived but he turned out to be a jack-ass.

Most of these guys are professionals and will play hard for whatever team they happen to be on.

There is a difference between playing hard and acting like a professional and actively wanting to play for the team you play for, I was just responding to this:

I have to be concerned with how motivated Dunn will be if he comes here simply because he has no other options.

I'd much rather have a player who actually wants to be here. but that's just me.

I actually think that it is a very rare player who actually tanks (FLOP) when he is unhappy with the team he is on

[natsfan4evr]

There is a difference between playing hard and acting like a professional and actively wanting to play for the team you play for, I was just responding to this:

I actually think that it is a very rare player who actually tanks (FLOP) when he is unhappy with the team he is on

He will learn from Manny. If he didn't dog it with the Red Sox, he probably would have got the 4 year/100 million deal that he wanted.

[R-Zim#11]

Why does it shock anyone that Dunn's first choice would be The Dodgers? I bet once Manny signs, he signs within the next day with us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090129

I don't think we're anyone's 1st choice right now -- which is the main reason I stay pessimistic about signing anyone to a reasonable contract. If we are going to get anyone here -- we will have to overpay. And it's just not worth it at this point, in my opinion.

[natsfan4evr]

I don't think we're anyone's 1st choice right now -- which is the main reason I stay pessimistic about signing anyone to a reasonable contract. If we are going to get anyone here -- we will have to overpay. And it's just not worth it at this point, in my opinion.

3 years at 30 million is not overpaying. If other teams are offering 1 year at 8, he can take that and reenter next year, or lock up with us for 3 years.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

I don't think we're anyone's 1st choice right now -- which is the main reason I stay pessimistic about signing anyone to a reasonable contract. If we are going to get anyone here -- we will have to overpay. And it's just not worth it at this point, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, unless we are the only team interested, I don't even think overpaying is going to do it.

Whether fans like it or not, this is going to be a tough year regardless of who we pick up and whether fans like or not, the future destiny of this team is actually in the hands of the terminally injured, scrubby, do-they-have-potential-or-not, convicted, half-ass, prima donna, rehab projects that currently make up the team.

The FO and JimBo have done all they can with what they had available and with the availability of those pieces (and availability to a 102-loss dead last team is very scarce). It is nearing time for the players to take it into their own hands and do their part to improve the team's fortunes or roll around in the muck again.

[natsfan4evr]

Unfortunately, unless we are the only team interested, I don't even think overpaying is going to do it.

Whether fans like it or not, this is going to be a tough year regardless of who we pick up and whether fans like or not, the future destiny of this team is actually in the hands of the terminally injured, scrubby, do-they-have-potential-or-not, convicted, half-ass, prima donna, rehab projects that currently make up the team.

The FO and JimBo have done all they can with what they had available and with the availability of those pieces (and availability to a 102-loss dead last team is very scarce). It is nearing time for the players to take it into their own hands and do their part to improve the team's fortunes or roll around in the muck again.

At least on paper, this team has the potential to be The Rays in the next 3 years or so.

I think Dunn signs with us, because he has to. I don't see him taking a huge cut to play for a competitor, but I could be wrong.
Not only would his agent be up in arms, but so would the union.

We might have one more rough year, but that is the most I see. I think the prospects come flying in next year.
I think a front end rotation of Strasburg and Zimmermann will rival any other.

[R-Zim#11]

Unfortunately, unless we are the only team interested, I don't even think overpaying is going to do it.

I agree. From what I understand -- we were the high-bidder for Texiera (whether it's true or not is complete speculation) and he chose the perennially "contending" Yank-mes. How many FAs were lining up for the Braves or Rays before their hey-day?

Whether fans like it or not, this is going to be a tough year regardless of who we pick up and whether fans like or not, the future destiny of this team is actually in the hands of the terminally injured, scrubby, do-they-have-potential-or-not, convicted, half-ass, prima donna, rehab projects that currently make up the team.

The FO and JimBo have done all they can with what they had available and with the availability of those pieces (and availability to a 102-loss dead last team is very scarce). It is nearing time for the players to take it into their own hands and do their part to improve the team's fortunes or roll around in the muck again.

I have a lot of hope in the youth of the team -- our oldest starting pitcher is 27 (Assuming a rotation of Olsen, Lannan, Balester, Cabrera and Zimmermann/Martis/Mock). Our oldest starting position player would be 30 -- assuming Hernadez at 2nd Guzman at SS and Johnson at 1B.

Contrast that with the "ahead of the Nats" Orioles who lost 93 games with a lineup and rotation full of veterans.

[hammondsnats]

I'm sure this is a surprise to a few people around here.

I just knew you would chime in and say this .  Of course his first choice is to play for a contender.  Nobody is denying that.  But that still doesn't mean he won't play for another team.  With a combination of a lack of interest from other teams and if you offer him the right price he can be had.  Do you really think he'd sit out the season if he doesn't get an offer he likes or if he doesn't get an offer from a contender?  Pretty ballsy if you ask me.  As I've said all along, he's still available isn't he?

[HalfSmokes]

I have a lot of hope in the youth of the team -- our oldest starting pitcher is 27 (Assuming a rotation of Olsen, Lannan, Balester, Cabrera and Zimmermann/Martis/Mock). Our oldest starting position player would be 30 -- assuming Hernadez at 2nd Guzman at SS and Johnson at 1B.

Contrast that with the "ahead of the Nats" Orioles who lost 93 games with a lineup and rotation full of veterans.

I think this is right, but it depends on the premise that

1. our young guys will continue to develop and imporve, and

2. are better than guys of comprable ages that are sitting in AAA and AA in other systems or that the expierence that they are getting in the majors will ultimately make them better than guys getting atbats in the minors.

[R-Zim#11]

I think this is right, but it depends on the premise that

1. our young guys will continue to develop and imporve, and

2. are better than guys of comprable ages that are sitting in AAA and AA in other systems or that the expierence that they are getting in the majors will ultimately make them better than guys getting atbats in the minors.

I think it's safe to say that if Dukes, Milledge, Zimmerman, Olsen, Balester, Lannan, et al were still in the minors, we'd have a top-10 system, especially when you consider the other prospects like Marrero, Detwiler, Zimmermann and soon-to-be Strasburg, and pick 9a.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Of course his first choice is to play for a contender.  Nobody is denying that.

Hammonds, you are so full of crap, and I say that in the lightest most humorous way I can. You've been in denial of this for the past month. You and I have gotten in countless debates over this in countless threads. Don't start playing off this like "you know" because you haven't known.

But that still doesn't mean he won't play for another team.  With a combination of a lack of interest from other teams and if you offer him the right price he can be had.  As I've said all along, he's still available isn't he?

Oh, yes, but of course. But it does bring up the question (someone mentioned it a few posts back) do you really want a guy who was forced to come here who didn't want to come here playing on your team? So every time that player strikes out, bloops a play in the field, or doesn't live up to past numbers, do you really want that nagging feeling in the back of your mind, "Is he playing like crap, because?"

[hammondsnats]

Hammonds, you are so full of crap, and I say that in the lightest most humorous way I can. You've been in denial of this for the past month. You and I have gotten in countless debates over this in countless threads. Don't start playing off this like "you know" because you haven't known.

Didn't you learn how to read in college?     I never disputed the fact he could want to go to a contender, but I also said there's a chance if the price is right.  Just like with Teix.  And again we didn't have a blowout offer on the table for Teix, so there you have it.  (but I'm happy we tried hard, really)

I have agreed on this subject from the start ... most players ideal landing spot is a contender.  But when one isn't showing much interest and another team with money to spend is, then it could be a good fit.

Oh, yes, but of course. But it does bring up the question (someone mentioned it a few posts back) do you really want a guy who was forced to come here who didn't want to come here playing on your team? So every time that player strikes out, bloops a play in the field, or doesn't live up to past numbers, do you really want that nagging feeling in the back of your mind, "Is he playing like crap, because?"

Is he going to be another FLOP?  I don't know.  But a lot of our guys attitudes were terrible last year.  I forgot where I read it, but some other team's coaches and players called our attitude pathetic last year, the way we would run on the field, laughing in the dugout, etc.  He's a professional and we would be paying him like a pro, we should expect better out of him.  We could use all the help we can get remember.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Didn't you learn how to read in college?     I never disputed the fact he could want to go to a contender, but I also said there's a chance if the price is right.  Just like with Teix.  And again we didn't have a blowout offer on the table for Teix, so there you have it. 

I have agreed on this subject from the start ... most players ideal landing spot is a contender.  But when one isn't showing much interest and another team with money to spend is, then it could be a good fit.

Is he going to be another FLOP?  I don't know.  But a lot of our guys attitudes were terrible last year.  I forgot where I read it, but some other team's coaches and players called our attitude pathetic last year, the way we would run on the field, laughing in the dugout, etc.  He's a professional and we would be paying him like a pro, we should expect better out of him.  We could use all the help we can get remember.

I don't remember you complaining when Dukes laughed and starting clapping in the dugout.

Also, according to you, unhappy players don't go clutch in clutch situations, especially if the offices don't have pencils or some ridiculousness as that. Aren't you worried an unhappy Dunn will go un-clutch?

[tomterp]

[Minty Fresh]

[wpa2629]

notld and Hammonds in a cage match to the end --

Who ya got??

[hammondsnats]

Wow you are misunderstood my friend.  First off, I have no idea where you are coming from calling me bullcrap.  I never said Dunn didn't want to go to a contender.  But the bastard is still available isn't he?  It doesn't ultimately mean he will end up with a contender.  Look at Manny Ramirez, outside the Dodgers, it's a bunch of non-contenders looking at him.  With Dunn, it's the same. 

Money talks.  It's not just a movie, it's a phrase.  Sure, every free agent has winning on their mind, but they also want to get paid.  And just because the Dodgers are his first choice, doesn't mean he is theirs.  Oh because Manny Ramirez is in front of him.  They want him.  So let's so Manny goes to the Dodgers, where does Dunn go?  Pop quiz, hot shot.  Either he takes a MAJOR paycut to play for a contender, takes a two year deal for decent money with a non-contender or he sits out the season. 

I never ever said he didn't want to play for a contender.  I really don't know where you are coming from with that.  Sometimes you don't even know what you're saying or what others have said, you just care about winning a debate. 

[hammondsnats]

I don't remember you complaining when Dukes laughed and starting clapping in the dugout.

Also, according to you, unhappy players don't go clutch in clutch situations, especially if the offices don't have pencils or some ridiculousness as that. Aren't you worried an unhappy Dunn will go un-clutch?

Did I say anything about starting chants, I just said laughing in the dugout and not hustling onto the field.  And again with the players and pencils.  I never said the players were upset about offices supplies but people inside the organization were.  Some of the players aren't happy b/c we haven't done all that much to field a better team. 

and P.S. I'd rather have a slugger with a terrible attitude than one of the AAAA players we've thrown out there haha. 

[hammondsnats]

Nothing to see here folks, move along!  This is a case two buds chatting, where something was allegedly said even though it wasn't.  Now if it were a Lerners are cheap or whether I think a slugger could help this team, I could get in the ring for that .  But not over something like this.

Of course everyone wants to play for a contender, but I'm saying there is still a chance that free agent could go to a non-contender if the price is right.  That's all I have been saying. 

[cmdterps44]

If you take every word literal about pencils and paying then your delving into something way past his meaning.

[MrMadison]

  Some of the players aren't happy b/c no one has done anything about going out and getting a better team. 

because only counts as "doing something" when it costs more than a certain amount of millions of dollars, right?

therefore we've done absolutely nothing this offseason, and we are going into the season with the exact same team we had last year. exact same. because there have been absolutely zero changes this offseason.   

just sayin'.

[hammondsnats]

because only counts as "doing something" when it costs more than a certain amount of millions of dollars, right?

therefore we've done absolutely nothing this offseason, and we are going into the season with the exact same team we had last year. exact same. because there have been absolutely zero changes this offseason.   

just sayin'.

a lot of the same pieces from last year's 102 loss team are still in place.  do i think we're going to be better?  yes, of course.  we have to avoid the injury bug (we know with nick that won't happen) and the younger guys have to take another step forward this year.  but we're still going into the season with pretty much the same opening day line-up as last year and all i'm saying is it frightens me a bit. 

and no once again i didn't say it had to do with money, i corrected my post.  we got rid of a lot of dead weight and i'm grateful for that, but we still have plenty of holes in every area on our team.  i've been happy with cutting some of the negative guys around here, but they didn't deserve deals in the first place.  and just because we have our views, doesn't mean the guys on the team agree with them.  they play together everyday and they know who's capable of doing what and who out there is capable of doing what. 

EDIT: I SHOULD'VE SAID WE HAVEN'T DONE MUCH ABOUT GOING OUT AND GETTING A BETTER TEAM, not anything, my bad mrmadison. 

[wpa2629]

I keep seeing the scene for A Christmas Story in my head -- with Ralphie on top of the big bully kid pounding away in his over sized puffy coat and his snow cap complete with tassels -- epic movie ... FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT ...

[hammondsnats]

I keep seeing the scene for A Christmas Story in my head -- with Ralphie on top of the big bully kid pounding away in his over sized puffy coat and his snow cap complete with tassels -- epic movie ... FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT ...

haha no fights.  i hope we cleared the air on this one. 

Plus, after seeing Maryland lose time after time in recent weeks, I lost a lot of fight in me.  I'm just waiting for the Nats season to pick me up, even if we do suck.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

notld and Hammonds in a cage match to the end --

Who ya got??

I'll whoop his ass like I am whooping it now.