Plan "B"

[tomterp]

You know .. the song itself is actually pretty ironic -- because all the crap she sings about is actually not ironic at all -- her song should really be titled ... isn't it a bummer?

Agreed. Every time she says (about 80 times) "isn't it ironic....?" I just want to scream "NO, THERE'S NOTHING IRONIC AT ALL ABOUT IT, GET OUT A DAMN DICTIONARY YOU IGNORANT SLUT" but I don't cause sometimes my kids are in the car and I try to refrain from gutteral language in their presence.

[wpa2629]

Agreed. Every time she says (about 80 times) "isn't it ironic....?" I just want to scream "NO, THERE'S NOTHING IRONIC AT ALL ABOUT IT, GET OUT A DAMN DICTIONARY YOU IGNORANT SLUT" but I don't cause sometimes my kids are in the car and I try to refrain from gutteral language in their presence.

OMG ... that's hilarious I've done the same thing all the time -- in fact that exact line from Saturday Night Live always goes through my head -- Alanis -- you ignorant slut ...

[DCFan]

go on, name some more.

Try being original. 

[DCFan]

one of these days it'll sink in, that we're not BPG, and the whole "Insult the whole forum at once" thing only really makes *him* look rather silly, rather than the so-called hated villain he was over there. *shrug*

but until then, it's "little old DCFan against the whole WNFF." 

Which you are stoking for all its worth. 

[Nat of the Living Dead]

one of these days it'll sink in, that we're not BPG, and the whole "Insult the whole forum at once" thing only really makes *him* look rather silly, rather than the so-called hated villain he was over there. *shrug*

but until then, it's "little old DCFan against the whole WNFF." 

It's hilarious to imagine this old fart typing on a keyboard and squinting his eyes to see the screen thinking he is being witty.

[MrMadison]

It's hilarious to imagine this old fart typing on a keyboard and squinting his eyes to see the screen thinking he is being witty.

eh. some people just need forum drama, need to rile people up to "hate" them on the message boards. *shrug*

funny thing is, he's actually pretty cool in person.  the coolness doesn't really translate to teh internets too much though, I guess.

such is the life of an internet persona.

[cmdterps44]

eh. some people just need forum drama, need to rile people up to "hate" them on the message boards. *shrug*

funny thing is, he's actually pretty cool in person.  the coolness doesn't really translate to teh internets too much though, I guess.

such is the life of an internet persona.

Yea like the sweetest guy in real life can get arrested for internet "harassing"

[sportsfan882]

I don't get the Belliard hate around here. Don't blame him for having to play 1B because NJ is a wussy, Young is overweight, and Casto sucks. 

2008: .287 BA/.372 OBP/.473 SLG 11 HRs 46 RBIs
2007: .290 BA/.332 OBP/.427 SLG 11 HRs 58 RBIs

[KnorrForYourMoney]

So what about it? The fan base isn't going to "come back" for a last place team that loses 102 games or for a last place team that loses 97 games (for argument's sake, the five games that Dunn will apparently win by his mere presence). It is going to take more than an Adam Dunn (which we have already figured out) and again, I've never heard of someone stampeding to a game looking to watch "Adam Dunn." He isn't going to be the huge draw you think he is. This is my opinion, of course, but it just sounds like more "sign him because we have to sign anyone" or "spend just to spend" talk.

This isn't about Dunn, the man himself, putting butts in seats.  Pay attention.  I said Dunn adds wins, and more wins means better attendance and fan interest.

Sure, they're not going to make a playoff run and draw 30,000 a night, but the Nats set themselves up much better for the long haul if they can avoid being completely risible again.  If they can show steady improvement, they can keep their attendance from ever dipping into embarrassing levels.

Look at the Rays - they had this awful tradition of losing and couldn't even draw 20,000 when they were in the middle of a playoff chase.

Umm, okay. You bring this up why?

Because you said some crap about Dunn taking away from player development.  Uhh, yeah, anyone whose development you're so certain he'll taking away from?  Any particular player?

Yeah, I have. Trading is that thing teams that actually have something to give away do. Tell me again who the Nats have that is going to suddenly change the fortunes of this team by trading them?

You were missing my point.  If the Nationals ever DO have a logjam and find Dunn expendable, they can trade him.

[Obed_Marsh]

Every time I look at this thread. I wonder. Do the Nationals even have a plan B or have we seen the end of changes over the offseason?

[Nat of the Living Dead]

This isn't about Dunn, the man himself, putting butts in seats.  Pay attention.  I said Dunn adds wins, and more wins means better attendance and fan interest.

Attendance is when people put their butts in those seats for whatever reasons. Now pay attention to this, this seem to be the part that is a little hard for you to envision: Five or six extra wins, Adam Dunn, Babe Alfonso Sori-Ripken, golden hot dogs, or whatever you can dream up WILL NOT PUT THOSE BUTTS IN SEATS IF THIS TEAM IS IN LAST PLACE. PERIOD. You can glitz and glam the team all you want, it still isn't going to fill the Park.

Sure, they're not going to make a playoff run and draw 30,000 a night, but the Nats set themselves up much better for the long haul if they can avoid being completely risible again.  If they can show steady improvement, they can keep their attendance from ever dipping into embarrassing levels.

I've never understood what a fan's fascination with attendance is and how it plays into their thoughts in acquiring whoever considering a fan never gets a check in the mail for a penny of ticket sales, it isn't the fan's responsibility, and if attendance goes sour, big whoop, better seats to be had. Attendance will go back up when this team drags itself out of the swamp, not if they make the swamp look prettier.

Because you said some crap about Dunn taking away from player development.  Uhh, yeah, anyone whose development you're so certain he'll taking away from?  Any particular player?

Dude, that was in a post like three weeks ago and it was included in a list of pros and cons of getting Adam Dunn. One thing in a long thread of such things and you latch on to that? Nice try, get over it.

You were missing my point.  If the Nationals ever DO have a logjam and find Dunn expendable, they can trade him.

Oh, yeah. Dunn is such a hot commodity right now, I can't wait to see how many teams actually come knocking on our door when we use him up for two or three years. Of course, we don't even have Adam Dunn so, for now, your point is actually that you have NO point to discuss.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Every time I look at this thread. I wonder. Do the Nationals even have a plan B or have we seen the end of changes over the offseason?

I'm sure the Dunn, Manny, Sheets, Hudson etc. floodgates will open up by the end of next week. The Nats might have a chance to pick up one or two. But after that, come whatever may. We be going into battle whether we like it or not!

[DCFan]

I don't get the Belliard hate around here. Don't blame him for having to play 1B because NJ is a wussy, Young is overweight, and Casto sucks. 

2008: .287 BA/.372 OBP/.473 SLG 11 HRs 46 RBIs
2007: .290 BA/.332 OBP/.427 SLG 11 HRs 58 RBIs

How many years have we been hearing about how we'll flip Belliard at the deadline to a contender yet here we are about to start s/t and he's still on our roster? No one wants him but he's on our team. (there's that 75% thing again.  )

[DCFan]

I've never understood what a fan's fascination with attendance is and how it plays into their thoughts in acquiring whoever considering a fan never gets a check in the mail for a penny of ticket sales, it isn't the fan's responsibility, and if attendance goes sour, big whoop, better seats to be had. Attendance will go back up when this team drags itself out of the swamp, not if they make the swamp look prettier.

I so look forward to the day when attendance at Nats Park isn't an in issue anymore. 

[Nat of the Living Dead]

I so look forward to the day when attendance at Nats Park isn't an in issue anymore. 

*shrugs* It really shouldn't be an issue now. The team is at a low point, a low point that all teams have experienced sometime in their history (maybe more than once or twice if the franchise is really established). It's not like something like this has never happened to an MLB team, the Nats are not unique in this respect. It will be tough on some, but the Nats will pull out of it and people will come to the Park.

But attendance really shouldn't come into play in order for one to enjoy the game or if it does, it shouldn't be that much of a talking point. I come to the game to see some DC baseball, not pay attention to the family who can't control their kids while they snot all over their ice cream cones or listen to Joe Lawyer chatting away on his cell trying to keep a sheep-rapist out of jail.

I understand that attendance brings money to the team, it is the way of things, but anyone who is threatening to not go to games, nages and complains about it and tries to get more fans on that bandwagon, really shouldn't be talking about attendance in the first place. They aren't part of the solution at all. (*I am not talking about you or anyone in particular, just in general)

[shoeshineboy]

*shrugs* It really shouldn't be an issue now. The team is at a low point, a low point that all teams have experienced sometime in their history (maybe more than once or twice if the franchise is really established). It's not like something like this has never happened to an MLB team, the Nats are not unique in this respect. It will be tough on some, but the Nats will pull out of it and people will come to the Park.

But attendance really shouldn't come into play in order for one to enjoy the game or if it does, it shouldn't be that much of a talking point. I come to the game to see some DC baseball, not pay attention to the family who can't control their kids while they snot all over their ice cream cones or listen to Joe Lawyer chatting away on his cell trying to keep a sheep-rapist out of jail.

I understand that attendance brings money to the team, it is the way of things, but anyone who is threatening to not go to games, nages and complains about it and tries to get more fans on that bandwagon, really shouldn't be talking about attendance in the first place. They aren't part of the solution at all. (*I am not talking about you or anyone in particular, just in general)

I agree. I don't understand the attendance fascination. Perhaps it is due to the knowledge that the Skins have been sellouts since 1966. Attendance is directly related to winning (with few special exceptions involving other key factors). Winning is all that matters and all that should matter to anyone. I don't care if I am the only person in the stands (I actually like some shoulder and leg room for most games). I don't get paid any money based upon how many people show up, and don't believe anyone who worries about attendance does either. So attendance doesn't mean anything. it is a byproduct of the quality of the team on the field. Which is why the biggest crowds this year will be for the Red Sox.

[DCFan]

I understand that attendance brings money to the team, it is the way of things, but anyone who is threatening to not go to games, nages and complains about it and tries to get more fans on that bandwagon, really shouldn't be talking about attendance in the first place. They aren't part of the solution at all. (*I am not talking about you or anyone in particular, just in general)

There are a number of issues that I can see with attendance. First, like you said, is the economics - more fannies in the seats brings in more revenues which can be invested in the team hopefully making it better and even more of a reason to attend.  (although with TV money being what it is I'm not sure that ticket revenues come close to matching what the national and regional TV contracts bring in?). Secondly is the perception in the national media that DC isn't a good baseball town.  The lost 2 teams already thing and they're on the way to losing another because, look, no one goes to the games. Thirdly is the disproportionate number of fans in attendance from the opposing team. I really, really dislike feeling overrun in my own park and I hate that more than anything.

As Stan stated so eloquently, they'll get the attendance they deserve and I think he'll get his wish this year.

[DCFan]

Which is why the biggest crowds this year will be for the Red Sox.

And they'll all be sporting that B on their cap. 

[shoeshineboy]

And they'll all be sporting that B on their cap. 

Yup. Because the Lerners are following the Susan O'Malley playbook.

[PatsNats28]

How many years have we been hearing about how we'll flip Belliard at the deadline to a contender yet here we are about to start s/t and he's still on our roster? No one wants him but he's on our team. (there's that 75% thing again.  )

Hey I'll take a guy who can hit ~.285 consistently, if that's not ML quality, then I dunno what you're smoking. And how do you know it's just not that JB is overvaluing him?

[houston-nat]

I'm sure the Dunn, Manny, Sheets, Hudson etc. floodgates will open up by the end of next week. The Nats might have a chance to pick up one or two. But after that, come whatever may. We be going into battle whether we like it or not!

Trades, perhaps. For instance, Kearns, Pena, and Nick Johnson in exchange for a $100 My Subway Cash Card.

[DCFan]

Hey I'll take a guy who can hit ~.285 consistently, if that's not ML quality, then I dunno what you're smoking. And how do you know it's just not that JB is overvaluing him?

Because of his excessive girth he's a defensive liability which negates his overall value since he can't hit for power.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Attendance is when people put their butts in those seats for whatever reasons. Now pay attention to this, this seem to be the part that is a little hard for you to envision: Five or six extra wins, Adam Dunn, Babe Alfonso Sori-Ripken, golden hot dogs, or whatever you can dream up WILL NOT PUT THOSE BUTTS IN SEATS IF THIS TEAM IS IN LAST PLACE. PERIOD. You can glitz and glam the team all you want, it still isn't going to fill the Park.

We have different ideas of what drives attendance.  I don't think the last place thing matters so much as hovering around .500 for most of the year.  People want a competitive team to watch, no matter how far out of the race they are.

I've never understood what a fan's fascination with attendance is and how it plays into their thoughts in acquiring whoever considering a fan never gets a check in the mail for a penny of ticket sales, it isn't the fan's responsibility, and if attendance goes sour, big whoop, better seats to be had. Attendance will go back up when this team drags itself out of the swamp, not if they make the swamp look prettier.

I'd rather this team not turn into the Marlins where their attendance becomes so horrible that our owners are content to start pocketing revenue sharing money ala Jeffrey Loria.

Dude, that was in a post like three weeks ago and it was included in a list of pros and cons of getting Adam Dunn. One thing in a long thread of such things and you latch on to that? Nice try, get over it.

I was just directly quoting something from your recent post. *shrug*

Oh, yeah. Dunn is such a hot commodity right now, I can't wait to see how many teams actually come knocking on our door when we use him up for two or three years. Of course, we don't even have Adam Dunn so, for now, your point is actually that you have NO point to discuss.

That really doesn't have to do with nobody wanting him.  They just don't want him at his demanded cost.  He's going to be off the market once Manny signs and sets a price.

There will always be some team(s) out there who want Dunn.  The A's could make for a really good trading partner some day if they need a DH/LF/1B and they're in a playoff race.

[sportsfan882]

Because of his excessive girth he's a defensive liability which negates his overall value since he can't hit for power.

He's not a power hitter but he he's hit 10+ HRs each of the last 2 seasons. Last year he slugged .473.

He was fine defensively up until about last year when he really started to deteriorate in the field. Part of the reason for that though is that the Nats had him playing like 3 different positions simulataneously (3B, 2B, 1B).

[DCFan]

He's not a power hitter but he he's hit 10+ HRs each of the last 2 seasons. Last year he slugged .473.

He was fine defensively up until about last year when he really started to deteriorate in the field. Part of the reason for that though is that the Nats had him playing like 3 different positions simulataneously (3B, 2B, 1B).

But he drives a helluva nice looking Benz.