Author Topic: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?  (Read 3703 times)

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #150: December 15, 2023, 01:21:11 PM »
A good read on how every previous effort to bring a top-level professional sports team to Virginia has failed:

https://cardinalnews.org/2023/12/15/excited-about-youngkins-deal-to-bring-2-major-league-teams-to-virginia-weve-been-here-before/
- Redskins / Commanders (twice)
- Expansion baseball team in 1993 and 1998
- Expos / Nationals
- NHL team in Hamton Roads in the 1990's
- Sacramento Kings to Virginia Beach in 2013

As I recall, the Virginia effort didn’t fail as much as Warner (who was eyeing the senate at the end of the lame duck governor term) started to get heat from the Post (which seemed to switch from boosting Angelos’s arguments for years to boosting DC over Virginia in their coverage when the decision was about to be made). He reportedly had made no issue for years about the long-planned funding mechanism through the Virginia baseball stadium authority put in place by the Commonwealth.

The support for the bond mechanism also seemed to be the case with Gilmore before him and Kaine after him (when the lease deal reportedly was faltering under disputes with baseball in late 2005 and didn’t get resolved until February 2006 when DC had to pony up more including reportedly having to sell development right outside the ballpark). Throughout all of that, the legislation for the stadium authority stayed in place, and of course happened to have reportedly been re-purposed nowadays first for the reason NFL stadium bid and now for this:

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/authorities/virginia-baseball-stadium-authority/


It was quite something to see Warner up there front and center on the current plan when he reportedly got so particular at a critical juncture during the relocation process about the “moral obligation” clause related to one of the bond issuing plans that have apparently been well-established years beforehand and could’ve been adjusted had there been any issues.

https://www.bondbuyer.com/news/virginia-officials-wary-of-using-moral-obligation-for-baseball

“Virginia Gov. Mark R. Warner, a Democrat, and some state lawmakers have expressed concerns about the proposal to issue bonds backed by a moral obligation pledge in order to finance a baseball stadium to be operated by a for-profit enterprise should Virginia win the Montreal Expos franchise and have to build a stadium.”

“Del. Vincent F. Callahan Jr., R-McLean, chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, appeared to favor the use of moral obligation debt and accused Warner yesterday of being "still on the fence" regarding its use for stadium debt.

“Even if the relocated Expos were to have the worst attendance figures in the league, for example one million fans per year, the team owners could still make a profit, Callahan said in an interview yesterday. "The chances of the state being called on to pay, or of a default happening, are extremely remote," he said.

“Under the current financing proposal, which would need state legislative approval, the Virginia Resources Authority - the only entity in the state that issues moral obligation debt - would issue a combination of tax-exempt and taxable debt for the proposed facility. Based on its moral obligation pledge, VRA bonds typically receive a double-A rating from credit agencies.

“Although triple-A rated Virginia has never had to call on it, the state's moral obligation pledge significantly enhances the credit quality of its loan programs becauseif a bond issue's capital reserve fund drops below its minimal requirement, the issuer may submit a request to the governor for needed funds, and he in turn is legally bound to request the appropriation from the legislature.”


With the rug essentially pulled out the more that Warner and his press secretary made clear to news outlets the lack of state support on this basis, it opened the door for Williams and the DCSEC to pledge the sweetheart of sweetheart deals as it was called. Of course, it almost fell apart because it didn’t have any actual backing but was subject to the council vote in 2004 and needed further final lease approval with the reported development rights giveaway in 2006 that may have almost cost them the team.


Plus, there’s this claim from the “Virginia failed” article that doesn’t seem to bear up to scrutiny:

“The Northern Virginia group was forced to shift its focus to a stadium site near Dulles. That wasn’t nearly as appealing in an era when downtowns were considered the prime sites.”

In fact, articles written afterward indicated that Virginia was preferred as far as key baseball officials (including Selig and Reinsdorf) were concerned until the effects manifested of political winds billowing perhaps at the behest of the Post editorial board. Their support of Virginia was when Dulles was clearly the site those baseball officials would’ve been considering. Also, the appeal of “downtown” as the deciding factor against Virginia also seems to get shut down given the reported preference for the RFK site:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080129171813/http://www.examiner.com/blogs/Yeas_and_Nays/2008/1/23/ChiSox-owner-Nats-new-site-was-a-mistake

“ChiSox owner: Nats’ new site was a mistake

 
“Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, who was intimately involved with selecting Washington as a baseball city, had some second-guessing to do Tuesday on where the team will be located.

“Speaking at George Washington University, Reinsdorf recalled how Commissioner Bud Selig asked him and a group of other owners to select a city to relocate the Montreal Expos.

“”Whatever you do, don’t give me Washington,” he said Selig told him.

“That’s exactly what they did, although Reinsdorf said the decision had “nothing to do with my love for D.C.” (he got his bachelor’s degree from G.W. in the ’50s) but was “strictly business.

“Nevertheless, he said he preferred Northern Virginia over downtown due to its “better fan base.” Then he told the crowd, which included Nats principal owner Mark Lerner, that he “would have requested a different location” in the city.

“”We were sold on the idea that there would be enough parking,” he said. “I’m afraid that’s not the case. I would have insisted on [the RFK site].”

Once again, the Post appeared to have a hand in that, evidently not highlighting the potential level of environmental contamination at the Navy Yard site (which IIRC hadn’t had its testing done at the rime of selection but end up having dozens of buried oil tanks amongst the contamination). Meanwhile, they were amongst those seeming to pass along without much or any question the claims from Jack Evans and others about insurmountable environmental and NPS barriers at the RFK site taking 2 to 3 years at a minimum to straighten out – – something that mysteriously disappeared from future reports concerning bids to return the NFL to the same site despite no environmental work.


This article from the time of the lease revisit restates that assertion related to environmental hurdles from “city officials”, made even more remarkable by the number of council members, who at the time were talking about potentially reversing the votes after being “hoodwinked”, and claiming the the mayor had “total disregard for the law”:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/dec/7/20051207-123820-1379r/

“City officials also said the estimate for the RFK site likely will show virtually no savings over the cost of the South Capitol Street site because of heavy environmental problems that would trigger delays of up to three years. The city says it would like to break ground on a stadium by March and already has begun acquiring land at the site on South Capitol Street.”

“Several council members voted in favor of the resolutions on the grounds they were unaware they had voted last month to allow the city to remove borrowing costs, infrastructure, Metro upgrades and other non-ballpark costs from the $535million to be borrowed. The changes were made in technical amendments to the financing plan, which was passed by the council 10 votes to 2.

“”People feel misled,” said Kwame Brown, an at-large Democrat who voted in favor of the technical amendments last month but was for yesterday’s resolutions. “And because they were misled, they want an opportunity to reverse their vote.”

“”I was hoodwinked on the technical amendments,” Graham said. “I feel they got away with something.”

“Catania, who voted against the technical amendments, said the council never should have approved them last month, arguing that the changes were substantive. By categorizing the changes as “technical,” council chairwoman Linda Cropp was able to block the council’s ability to make major changes to the financing plan.

“”It’s a game of three-card monte, revising history and taking advantage of people,” Catania said. “We have a mayor who has total disregard for the law.””

The three card monte and revising history part seems apropos to how things evolved and are remembered (or not) in certain accounts.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #151: December 15, 2023, 01:28:23 PM »
Virginia also tried to get the Caps and Bullets when they moved to DC. Posted about that the other day. Springfield was the proposed site. 

The Hampton Roads attempts have nothing to do with northern VA of course.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #152: December 15, 2023, 01:29:57 PM »
Maybe they’re talking about their Qatari playmates?
Maybe the Wizards can play in the Qatari league. 

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #153: December 15, 2023, 02:20:43 PM »
Quote
“”People feel misled,” said Kwame Brown, an at-large Democrat who voted in favor of the technical amendments last month but was for yesterday’s resolutions. “And because they were misled, they want an opportunity to reverse their vote.”

That's an ironic name

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #154: December 16, 2023, 01:45:33 AM »
Starting to think this is doa in the legislature:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/12/15/capitals-wizards-potomac-yard-arena-finances-virginia-dc/

Quote
A Northern Virginia sports arena that would move the Washington Capitals and Wizards out of downtown D.C. would receive the largest-ever public subsidy for a project of its kind, an estimated $1.35 billion in state and local funds, if it goes forward.

To build the $2.2 billion project, Virginia would need to create a sports and entertainment authority that would issue two bond offerings and would need to contribute an additional $300 million from existing city and state funds, according to a 37-page study produced by investment bank JPMorgan for the state, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Post.

The plan would require significant investment from the teams’ ownership group, Monumental Sports & Entertainment, which would provide a total of $403 million up front and sign a 40-year lease with rent beginning at $29.5 million annually and rising to $34.5 million, according to the study. That would make the company’s total contribution $819 million.

Monumental, Youngkin announce deal to move Caps, Wizards to Virginia
The net cost to taxpayers would ultimately reach an estimated $1.35 billion, according to the study. That includes $1.15 billion directly for the project — more than any comparable facility on record, according to J.C. Bradbury, a Kennesaw State economics professor who studies sports facilities and reviewed the study for The Post.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #155: December 16, 2023, 08:12:57 AM »
I hav heard them on the broadcast tonight refer to Monumnetal’s global headquarters. Do they have some sort of overseas presence?

In 5 years the GM of the Wizards is going to be a Qatari prince.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #156: December 16, 2023, 08:14:04 AM »
Starting to think this is doa in the legislature:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/12/15/capitals-wizards-potomac-yard-arena-finances-virginia-dc/


1.35 billion (estimated, so you know it'll be higher) from a Governor on the way out and a mayor not running for re-election and who were absolutely paid-off by Ted for their support. I bet the GOV has lifetime box seats from his #1 fan and donor.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #157: December 16, 2023, 08:23:35 AM »
1.35 billion (estimated, so you know it'll be higher) from a Governor on the way out and a mayor not running for re-election and who were absolutely paid-off by Ted for their support. I bet the GOV has lifetime box seats from his #1 fan and donor.

Members of the Alexandria city council are up for election in November and a few of them are running for mayor. Never underestimate NIMBY power in northern Virginia

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #158: December 16, 2023, 08:31:08 AM »
Members of the Alexandria city council are up for election in November and a few of them are running for mayor. Never underestimate NIMBY power in northern Virginia

Money is power, so Ted can just buy new city council people. Unfortunately it's too easy. Like $20k to a city council person and you own them for life. Also very easy for someone to get elected mayor, take the cash, and not run for re-election. People have no shame.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #159: December 16, 2023, 08:38:46 AM »
Money is power, so Ted can just buy new city council people. Unfortunately it's too easy. Like $20k to a city council person and you own them for life. Also very easy for someone to get elected mayor, take the cash, and not run for re-election. People have no shame.

If it was that easy, the Old Dominion Boat Club would have been turned into a hotel years ago. As it stands, developers can’t even get their parking lot. Alexandria is a small city with strong anti development politics

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #160: December 16, 2023, 08:41:53 AM »
If it was that easy, the Old Dominion Boat Club would have been turned into a hotel years ago. As it stands, developers can’t even get their parking lot. Alexandria is a small city with strong anti development politics

But can they win against Saudi oil money and a billionaire with purchased VA leadership? It's simple (but not easy) to fight a developer building a hotel but it's hard to fight endless money pits who are very motivated to get what they want. A developer will abandon a project because the cost isn't worth it but Ted has ego on the line and basically ownership of an entire Virginia neighborhood PLUS a paid-for stadium PLUS two sports teams that are fully profitable regardless of ticket sales. Then you add in how much he loves adding in oil money and you've got a guy who will not let NIMBYs win, even though literally everyone but him hates the deal.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #161: December 16, 2023, 09:42:31 AM »
In 5 years the GM of the Wizards is going to be a Qatari prince.
Go for it. Can’t be worse. 

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #162: December 16, 2023, 10:13:47 AM »
Go for it. Can’t be worse. 
Oh yes it can: Wes Unseld Jr.: GM & Coach

Offline blue911

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #163: December 16, 2023, 12:57:31 PM »
Go for it. Can’t be worse.

I thought we currently had a Nigerian Prince.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #164: December 16, 2023, 04:31:17 PM »
I thought we currently had a Nigerian Prince.
he asked for money to include in a deal that he said would payoff for you many times once his deal with the Kings is complete

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #165: December 18, 2023, 02:09:32 PM »
that talknats piece i posted about ted still wanting a baseball team noted that a bunch of bots on twitter were praising Ted for moving the teams to Alexandria.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #166: December 18, 2023, 02:16:13 PM »
that talknats piece i posted about ted still wanting a baseball team noted that a bunch of bots on twitter were praising Ted for moving the teams to Alexandria.
this vaguely sounds like episode 2 of Star Wars.

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #167: January 02, 2024, 09:53:08 AM »
https://wjla.com/news/local/virginia-monumental-sports-entertainment-washington-wizards-capitals-potomac-yard-stadium-arena-complex-deal-lawmakers-polled-project-alxandrai-mayor-justin-wilson-governor-glenn-youngkin

"Where do Virginia lawmakers stand on the proposed arena move for the Wizards and Capitals?"

Doesn't seem like there's a groundswell of opposition in the legislature.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #168: January 02, 2024, 11:22:59 AM »
Field of Schemes has an initial take

https://www.fieldofschemes.com/2023/12/28/20769/alexandria-official-claims-1-5b-caps-wizards-subsidy-will-pay-for-itself-seems-to-misunderstand-how-money-works/


I don't blame state lawmakers for not caring, it looks like Alexandria not the state will be on the hook for revenue shortfalls


Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #170: January 05, 2024, 10:55:15 AM »
Good on 'em.  I hope Ted enjoys NIMBY Dien Bien Phu  :twisted:

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #171: January 25, 2024, 02:29:15 PM »
Shockingly, the new stadium is a screw job to Alexandria tax payers . Uncle Ted gets to keep all of the tax revenue generated:

"(i) sales tax revenues from construction and transactions on the campus, defined in the bill, but certain revenues that current law dedicates to transportation and education are excluded; (ii) all pass-through entity tax revenues and corporate income tax revenues from income generated by the company, defined in the bill, or any professional sports team or any affiliates as well as in the development and construction of the campus; and (iii) all personal income tax revenues from income generated through employment and business activity on the campus. It also authorizes the City of Alexandria to appropriate tax revenues to the Authority."

https://www.alxnow.com/2024/01/23/potomac-yard-arena-legislation-introduced-to-virginia-general-assembly/

Offline machpost

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #172: January 25, 2024, 02:55:13 PM »
I received a very long email from Ted/Monumental this morning that goes on and on and on, extolling the many virtues of this project, with links to order a yard sign and a preformatted letter form to send to politicians showing my support. Sounds like they're getting a bit nervous.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #173: January 25, 2024, 02:58:43 PM »
I received a very long email from Ted/Monumental this morning that goes on and on and on, extolling the many virtues of this project, with links to order a yard sign and a preformatted letter form to send to politicians showing my support. Sounds like they're getting a bit nervous.

I live in the Alexandria portion of Fairfax and generally have friends and parents of my kids friends and their teammates' parents who live in Alexandria proper and to a person they oppose it. I could really see this dying in the city council - if nothing else, Alexandria is great at NIMBY