Author Topic: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?  (Read 3699 times)

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Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #125: December 14, 2023, 10:14:18 AM »
Can’t wait until he and the Qataris buy the Nats!

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #126: December 14, 2023, 10:28:52 AM »
If this is really, I'm coming around to the belief that Ted is still posturing to stay in DC.

"“The city’s interest in these early discussions has been in keeping the number of parking spaces on this site at a minimum because we do not want a lot of vehicles accessing this use,” Wilson said. “This is intended to be a transit arena, a transit operation, that’s why we invested in a Metro station.”

Wilson said the new Potomac Yard will have a “significant net reduction” in parking spaces at the site.

“The intent is to ensure that we do not have people beyond a small core accessing this by vehicle,” Wilson said. “We will continue to push to keep parking at a minimum.”"

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

You'd have to be delusional to think building an arena in the suburbs and then having no parking will work. The whole reason this could have worked was by attracting Virginians, but if you don't live on the yellow or blue line, it will be a hassle to take metro and people won't bother

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #127: December 14, 2023, 11:04:31 AM »
If this is really, I'm coming around to the belief that Ted is still posturing to stay in DC.

"“The city’s interest in these early discussions has been in keeping the number of parking spaces on this site at a minimum because we do not want a lot of vehicles accessing this use,” Wilson said. “This is intended to be a transit arena, a transit operation, that’s why we invested in a Metro station.”

Wilson said the new Potomac Yard will have a “significant net reduction” in parking spaces at the site.

“The intent is to ensure that we do not have people beyond a small core accessing this by vehicle,” Wilson said. “We will continue to push to keep parking at a minimum.”"

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

You'd have to be delusional to think building an arena in the suburbs and then having no parking will work. The whole reason this could have worked was by attracting Virginians, but if you don't live on the yellow or blue line, it will be a hassle to take metro and people won't bother
That's crazy.

They are doing the same thing at Union Station. The massive renovation project calls for a drastic shrinkage in parking spaces to force people to use transit to get to the station. That ignores the people (like me) who drive in from outside the city to take Amtrak to the north east.

Offline machpost

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #128: December 14, 2023, 11:06:21 AM »
Not to mention the present uncertainty about Metro's future due to inadequate funding.

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #129: December 14, 2023, 11:10:05 AM »
Not to mention the present uncertainty about Metro's future due to inadequate funding.

Yep, here's what Metro is saying they will cut if they don't get additional funding:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/transportation/10-metro-stations-closed-67-bus-lines-cut-2000-layoffs-possible-if-budget-gap-isnt-filled-gm-says/3492307/

- Closing at 10 PM every night
- 10 stations shut down completely (not named yet)
- Much less train frequency
- half of all bus lines eliminated, 1/3rd total reduction in service
- 20% fare increase

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #130: December 14, 2023, 01:29:26 PM »
Adam Tuss / NBC News Washington reports that Potomac Yards is a candidate for shutdown as it's only averaging about 2,900 riders a day.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #131: December 14, 2023, 01:34:15 PM »
Adam Tuss / NBC News Washington reports that Potomac Yards is a candidate for shutdown as it's only averaging about 2,900 riders a day.
makes sense for now, but once the arena is built and perhaps more residences, that number should go up.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #132: December 14, 2023, 02:26:08 PM »
If this is really, I'm coming around to the belief that Ted is still posturing to stay in DC.

"“The city’s interest in these early discussions has been in keeping the number of parking spaces on this site at a minimum because we do not want a lot of vehicles accessing this use,” Wilson said. “This is intended to be a transit arena, a transit operation, that’s why we invested in a Metro station.”

Wilson said the new Potomac Yard will have a “significant net reduction” in parking spaces at the site.

“The intent is to ensure that we do not have people beyond a small core accessing this by vehicle,” Wilson said. “We will continue to push to keep parking at a minimum.”"

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

You'd have to be delusional to think building an arena in the suburbs and then having no parking will work. The whole reason this could have worked was by attracting Virginians, but if you don't live on the yellow or blue line, it will be a hassle to take metro and people won't bother

The Alexandria mayor and Youngkin are both out of office anyways by the time this is done. They both got huge donations from Ted to do this most likely. Why do they care?

Not to mention people like the VA state house and Alexandria city council are super cheap to buy off anyways. If it's anywhere close to TN, a merely 10-20k per person in "Donations" is all you need.

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #133: December 14, 2023, 02:26:30 PM »
makes sense for now, but once the arena is built and perhaps more residences, that number should go up.

Maybe, but it will be interesting to see the ridership projections.

Online Five Banners

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #134: December 14, 2023, 02:39:40 PM »
If this is really, I'm coming around to the belief that Ted is still posturing to stay in DC.

"“The city’s interest in these early discussions has been in keeping the number of parking spaces on this site at a minimum because we do not want a lot of vehicles accessing this use,” Wilson said. “This is intended to be a transit arena, a transit operation, that’s why we invested in a Metro station.”

Wilson said the new Potomac Yard will have a “significant net reduction” in parking spaces at the site.

“The intent is to ensure that we do not have people beyond a small core accessing this by vehicle,” Wilson said. “We will continue to push to keep parking at a minimum.”"

https://www.alxnow.com/2023/12/14/alexandria-mayor-potomac-yard-arena-will-have-minimal-parking-but-metro-station-currently-inadequate/

You'd have to be delusional to think building an arena in the suburbs and then having no parking will work. The whole reason this could have worked was by attracting Virginians, but if you don't live on the yellow or blue line, it will be a hassle to take metro and people won't bother


Delusional may cover it:

“Wilson acknowledged that “traffic and transportation is the biggest unknown here.” While some traffic improvements are planned for Route 1 as part of this project, according to City Manager James Parajon, Wilson said the city’s focus is on discouraging people from driving to the arena.”


We have the object lesson of Nats Park where they chose a spot that seem to use “downtown“ in a Camden Yards-esque image of previous success as the legitimizing factor to MLB rather than RFK. When comparing the two, one had a metro stadium built to handle stadium traffic and having acres of parking with access to major arteries, while the other seemed to be more lip service to the importance of building walkable communities at or near “downtown”, etc.

That of course was capped with the “everyone will just take metro“ trope, further undermined by the shuttle system that accompanied the stadium’s opening. The general fall off in attendance post-2008 seemed to help keep things somewhat manageable, with the issues becoming clear with the place was starting to get built out. Of course, that was accompanied with metro repairs and shutdowns that impacted traffic.

There’s been a “downtown” arena in MCI / Verizon / Capital One that integrated seamlessly into an area and seem to come through on the hopes of revitalization and becoming a true anchor, all with adequate infrastructure that includes not only metro but parking in office building underground lots. The only problem is, amateur hour and political theater appeared to return in force there, with the reports of reductions in law enforcement (wasn’t it 27 to 3 officers around there now?) resulting — as it has in Nats Park — with reduced patronage along with the general sense of safety issues. That’s something that preceded the shutdowns, as I remember going to a concert at the arena with family in 2019 and their expressed concerns about basically having to run the gauntlet away from people who wanted to approach them and having to find police officers to have a particularly gregarious inebriate back off.


With all of these object lessons plain to see, they seem to make this latest take of “everyone will just take metro” unbelievable here and to sorely lack in credibility from the word go. That’s notwithstanding this guy evidently taking it to a whole other level after cheerleading a proposal that actually cast traffic and transportation as the “biggest unknown” mere hours after the press conference! But that’s not enough: it’s actually followed by the city’s focus to discourage people from driving there!

Have you seen the numerous comparisons to what the Braves did in Cobb County? One of the similarities has to do with what Leonsis has stated many times: the majority of the attendance, especially for the Capitals, comes from Virginia. However, an increase the parking was one of the things that reportedly was highlighted by the Braves when they talked about the merits of moving out of their existing location. That reportedly included both available adjacent parking spaces as well as lots further out that had dedicated parking shuttles.

One of the reasons that the current DC arena has worked is because people really didn’t have to choose between Metro and parking, with the amount of available underground spaces close by being utilized and also keeping prices down because of availability. That was not the “biggest unknown“, as planning that involved local interests reportedly led those involved to a spot that could work very well regionally.

In the midst of arguable genuflections by local municipalities involved in the Amazon headquarters projects – – ironically repaid by the “pause“ in one of the main parts of the development – – and whose priorities such as everyone walking everywhere or taking public transportation (while Metroway buses which are often largely empty go back-and-forth for the limited times that they run), maybe it’s become a natural reflex to actually verbalize what he said right from the outset?


Again, this is a relatively small plot of land that primarily has one north-south road of limited capacity serving it. The Metro station has already been a compromise in terms of access and space to begin with. Talk about how there will need to be improvements may mainly be limited to be completing part of the entrance options that have been planned but scaled back. However, there doesn’t look like there can or will be much fixing of the existing capacity issues that already had to factor in “wetlands“ and the proximity to the GW Parkway to the east, nor would I hold my breath on much in the way of actual platform capacity improvements.

Of course, all of these assurances of kinda sorta maybe hopefully figuring it our over time don’t exactly seem to be bolstered when the guy literally talked about not running for reelection, evidently knowing full well the time in the limelight the city was about to face.


Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #135: December 14, 2023, 02:52:25 PM »

City Manager James Parajon,
You suppose he's related to RalJon or wherever JKC Stadium FedEx Field is located?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #136: December 14, 2023, 03:11:48 PM »
Adam Tuss / NBC News Washington reports that Potomac Yards is a candidate for shutdown as it's only averaging about 2,900 riders a day.

Looking at metro's closure map, Alexandria and eastern Fairfax get absolutely screwed. We lose our commuter bus line and lost metro stations. I would hope that the response would be Virginia further cutting its contribution to metro.

Offline 1995hoo

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #137: December 14, 2023, 04:16:22 PM »
Adam Tuss / NBC News Washington reports that Potomac Yards is a candidate for shutdown as it's only averaging about 2,900 riders a day.

Conceivably a stop could be operated as a "game-day only" stop. The Aqueduct Racetrack stop on the A train used to operate "only when the horses are running," as it said on the subway map. The LIRR stop on a spur track outside Belmont Park was a part-time stop as well (it's now been replaced by the mainline Elmont stop within walking distance of both the racetrack and the new Islanders' arena). Doing that sort of thing would not be entirely unprecedented with WMATA because the Arlington Cemetery stop closes earlier than the rest of the system (it closes at 7 PM during the winter, so passing through there at night gives you the rare feeling, for DC, of riding an express train).



....

They are doing the same thing at Union Station. The massive renovation project calls for a drastic shrinkage in parking spaces to force people to use transit to get to the station. That ignores the people (like me) who drive in from outside the city to take Amtrak to the north east.

Same here. I had to go into the office this week and my wife wanted to go with me, so we took the 5:00 Acela to New York on Sunday and came back on the 4:00 train yesterday. We drove to Union Station and parked because neither the Metro nor the VRE is a practical option—the stop nearest to us is Franconia–Springfield, the garage there has only a very few spaces where they allow overnight parking, and those spaces are prone to flooding when there is heavy rain. I'm certainly not going to try to ride one of those idiotic little scooters pulling luggage behind me. If they really do get rid of the parking garage, I wonder whether I might wind up driving to BWI and parking there, but that takes substantially more time between the drive there and then taking the shuttle bus to the Amtrak station.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #138: December 14, 2023, 04:17:49 PM »
The Caps could have gone 0-82 for the next decade and raised prices every year and I would have stayed on board.  Perhaps STH revenue is no longer a very important piece of the puzzle, but if it is, Ted's got the business acumen of a very stable genius if the likes of me are pulling the plug. 

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #139: December 14, 2023, 04:19:17 PM »
just having the stop open on game days would undercut the whole idea of building a national harbor / wharf like destination in the area.

now that Acela has assigned seating, i've been thinking about driving to BWI instead of DC (depending on train time) as well. I've done that once and it worked out OK except it was the same day as the million mom march on DC and so the southbound platform into DC was an absolute wall of women dressed all in pink.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #140: December 14, 2023, 07:35:52 PM »
I hav heard them on the broadcast tonight refer to Monumnetal’s global headquarters. Do they have some sort of overseas presence?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #141: December 14, 2023, 08:30:47 PM »
I hav heard them on the broadcast tonight refer to Monumnetal’s global headquarters. Do they have some sort of overseas presence?

Caps are at Ottawa Feb 26, does that count?

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #142: December 14, 2023, 08:46:19 PM »
Clyde’s in Gallery Place says they are closing if the teams move. They’ve been there almost 30 years :(

Online Five Banners

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #143: December 14, 2023, 10:12:34 PM »
I hav heard them on the broadcast tonight refer to Monumnetal’s global headquarters. Do they have some sort of overseas presence?

Maybe they’re talking about their Qatari playmates?

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #144: December 15, 2023, 11:11:44 AM »
A good read on how every previous effort to bring a top-level professional sports team to Virginia has failed:

https://cardinalnews.org/2023/12/15/excited-about-youngkins-deal-to-bring-2-major-league-teams-to-virginia-weve-been-here-before/
- Redskins / Commanders (twice)
- Expansion baseball team in 1993 and 1998
- Expos / Nationals
- NHL team in Hamton Roads in the 1990's
- Sacramento Kings to Virginia Beach in 2013

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #145: December 15, 2023, 12:07:45 PM »
I don't know much about Hampton Roads travel times and access. how easy is it to draw from all of the area?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #146: December 15, 2023, 12:09:15 PM »
I don't know much about Hampton Roads travel times and access. how easy is it to draw from all of the area?

With no traffic, not bad at all. With traffic, it won't happen and there is always traffic around Fredericksburg

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #147: December 15, 2023, 12:23:46 PM »
With no traffic, not bad at all. With traffic, it won't happen and there is always traffic around Fredericksburg
I meant more within and around there. I don't think a team there would draw from Spotsylvania north, maybe not even all that much from Richmond, either.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #148: December 15, 2023, 12:25:59 PM »
I would think the size of the population and lack of corporate buyers for suites would be the bigger impediment

Offline imref

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Re: Caps and Wiz moving to Potomac Yards?
« Reply #149: December 15, 2023, 12:39:44 PM »
I don't know much about Hampton Roads travel times and access. how easy is it to draw from all of the area?
Last time I checked the HR-Va Beach area is around the 43rd biggest media market in the US.