Author Topic: Darnell Coles  (Read 4302 times)

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Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #50: May 26, 2023, 06:49:18 PM »
Abrahms and Ruiz's homer rates are up but as stated earlier there are no power guys on this team. They just need to do what they're capable of. With this group 22 in runs is better than expected.



The team, as a whole, is among the worst in baseball in slugging. Last year, Call had more power. Meneses had more power. Garcia had more power. Ruiz had more power. Garrett had more power.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #51: May 26, 2023, 07:08:57 PM »
The team, as a whole, is among the worst in baseball in slugging. Last year, Call had more power. Meneses had more power. Garcia had more power. Ruiz had more power. Garrett had more power.


What? Ruiz's home run rate is up. Garcia's is about the same. Call has gone from 5 homers to 3. But it's useless and ridiculous to talk about these guys in terms of home runs. Charlie Lau couldn't turn these guys into home run hitters.

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #52: May 26, 2023, 07:14:49 PM »
I care about average and want more a few more walks, doubles, and home runs. None of these players are, or were ever, power hitters. Until the Nats sign a slugger and lift one of the young power hitter from the minors, what is wrong with getting base hits?

Hits are great, but by themselves don't correlate very well to runs scored which is the ultimate goal. I would say something similar if the Nats were 4th in homeruns but couldn't take a walk to save their life and were a lineup full of.200 hitters.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #53: May 26, 2023, 07:24:15 PM »

What? Ruiz's home run rate is up. Garcia's is about the same. Call has gone from 5 homers to 3. But it's useless and ridiculous to talk about these guys in terms of home runs. Charlie Lau couldn't turn these guys into home run hitters.
Weird how all those guys had higher slugging percentages last year.

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #54: May 26, 2023, 07:25:57 PM »
Weird how all those guys had higher slugging percentages last year.

Ruiz's ISO is higher this year.

Offline welch

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #55: May 26, 2023, 08:33:37 PM »
Apologies all. I've been in a foul mood since the top of the 9th last night

Offline imref

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #56: May 28, 2023, 02:28:28 PM »
Nats rank sixth in slugging percentage so far in May.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #57: May 28, 2023, 02:56:54 PM »
Nats rank sixth in slugging percentage so far in May.
they've had a nice month offensively after looking quite bad in april

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #58: May 28, 2023, 03:11:23 PM »
Nats rank sixth in slugging percentage so far in May.

12th in ISO so it's not being driven by more power, just a lot of singles.

Edit: They're first in batting average and it's not particularly close (Nats at .282, Rockies are 2nd at .270). So pretty much just singling opponents to death.

They're 4th in wOBA and wRC+ though, so it's clearly been working.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #59: May 28, 2023, 07:50:07 PM »
12th in ISO so it's not being driven by more power, just a lot of singles.

Edit: They're first in batting average and it's not particularly close (Nats at .282, Rockies are 2nd at .270). So pretty much just singling opponents to death.

They're 4th in wOBA and wRC+ though, so it's clearly been working.
nl only

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #60: May 28, 2023, 09:07:32 PM »
Yes, isn't that true for the original slugging percentage comment as well?

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #61: May 29, 2023, 09:21:23 AM »
Yes, isn't that true for the original slugging percentage comment as well?
prolly. didn't check.  I prefer mlb stats at this point  since both leagues have a dh, but that's just me. ether way, we should be clear about the baseline when we look at ranks.

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #62: May 29, 2023, 10:21:16 AM »
prolly. didn't check.  I prefer mlb stats at this point  since both leagues have a dh, but that's just me. ether way, we should be clear about the baseline when we look at ranks.

I don't disagree, I just kept it NL since that's what the original comment I responded to was using. But yeah not much point in separating league stats anymore. The new balanced schedule in addition to universal DH makes that especially true.

Honestly having two separate sets of awards feels a bit silly as well, though I doubt that's going away anytime soon.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #63: May 29, 2023, 11:00:36 AM »
I don't disagree, I just kept it NL since that's what the original comment I responded to was using. But yeah not much point in separating league stats anymore. The new balanced schedule in addition to universal DH makes that especially true.

Honestly having two separate sets of awards feels a bit silly as well, though I doubt that's going away anytime soon.
Still play more games against your own division than anyone else. 46 inter league games out of 162. So still way more games in your own league.  Just not as many as before. Makes sense to me to keep NL and AL stats.

Offline welch

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #64: May 29, 2023, 11:13:14 AM »
The team, as a whole, is among the worst in baseball in slugging. Last year, Call had more power. Meneses had more power. Garcia had more power. Ruiz had more power. Garrett had more power.

The basics of this thread is getting illogical.

The "mere slap hitters" on the Nats are on the Nats because they are not sluggers and have never been. Ted Williams acted as the hitting coach for the Nats in 1969, and he taught Eddie Brinkman to become a .260 hitter. Ted improved the hitting of that whole team (To Frank Howard: "Can you take a pitch?") but even Ted could not make Brinkman a power hitter.

Dominic Smith was the "first baseman of the future" for the Mets, but Pete Alonso took over. That's why Smith was available.Lane Thomas might be a .275 hitter with 20 hiomers, and if he had been, the Cardinals never would have traded him for poor old Jon Lester. If Alex Call had been a .260 hitter with some pop, he'd have been starting in CF rather than yo-yoing between the Guardians and their AAA team. If Candelario had had a stronger year in 2022, something closer to his career, the Tigers would have offered him a contract at much more money. Jeimer was a doubles guy, but with homer-power, he'd have been a star...and unavailable. Stone Garrett was a nobody. Chavis was a career prospect who got a chance last year in Pittsburgh, and was deemed excess after hitting .230 with a .650 OPS.

That Coles has them hitting for a higher average this year, if Coles is responsible, is a good thing. That he has not made them into the sluggers of my childhood, or my favorite Joe Torre Yankees, just means there is no such thing as magic.

The Nats will have more pop next season if Rizzo is allowed to sign a power-hitting free agent OF, and even more around 2025 if James Wood continues to improve. That's the future.

Offline imref

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #65: May 29, 2023, 12:29:35 PM »
The basics of this thread is getting illogical.

The "mere slap hitters" on the Nats are on the Nats because they are not sluggers and have never been. Ted Williams acted as the hitting coach for the Nats in 1969, and he taught Eddie Brinkman to become a .260 hitter. Ted improved the hitting of that whole team (To Frank Howard: "Can you take a pitch?") but even Ted could not make Brinkman a power hitter.

Dominic Smith was the "first baseman of the future" for the Mets, but Pete Alonso took over. That's why Smith was available.Lane Thomas might be a .275 hitter with 20 hiomers, and if he had been, the Cardinals never would have traded him for poor old Jon Lester. If Alex Call had been a .260 hitter with some pop, he'd have been starting in CF rather than yo-yoing between the Guardians and their AAA team. If Candelario had had a stronger year in 2022, something closer to his career, the Tigers would have offered him a contract at much more money. Jeimer was a doubles guy, but with homer-power, he'd have been a star...and unavailable. Stone Garrett was a nobody. Chavis was a career prospect who got a chance last year in Pittsburgh, and was deemed excess after hitting .230 with a .650 OPS.

That Coles has them hitting for a higher average this year, if Coles is responsible, is a good thing. That he has not made them into the sluggers of my childhood, or my favorite Joe Torre Yankees, just means there is no such thing as magic.

The Nats will have more pop next season if Rizzo is allowed to sign a power-hitting free agent OF, and even more around 2025 if James Wood continues to improve. That's the future.

Slate's argument that "The team, as a whole, is among the worst in baseball in slugging" is false. As of today, the Nats have a .387 slugging percentage, tied with Seattle and ahead of the White Sox, Padres, Royals, Brewers, A's, Tigers, and Guardians. We're .011 behind Miami, and .014 behind the Mets.

Our OPS+ is above the MLB average at 101 (average is 100).

We're 17th in doubles

We're 11th in triples

The one category where we are truly terrible is in Home Runs, only Cleveland has fewer. Then again, the Reds only have 3 more in a much more HR-friendly ballpark.

And, these are just season totals. We've hit for a lot more power in May than we did in April.

That the Nats are generating this kind of offense with this lineup of AAA/AAAA players is kind of astounding.

Offline blue911

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #66: May 29, 2023, 12:48:35 PM »
The Nationals have the second lowest ISO in all of MLB. Only Cleveland is worse, but that can be said about anything,anytime or in any situation.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #67: May 29, 2023, 01:09:54 PM »
The basics of this thread is getting illogical.

The "mere slap hitters" on the Nats are on the Nats because they are not sluggers and have never been. Ted Williams acted as the hitting coach for the Nats in 1969, and he taught Eddie Brinkman to become a .260 hitter. Ted improved the hitting of that whole team (To Frank Howard: "Can you take a pitch?") but even Ted could not make Brinkman a power hitter.

Dominic Smith was the "first baseman of the future" for the Mets, but Pete Alonso took over. That's why Smith was available.Lane Thomas might be a .275 hitter with 20 hiomers, and if he had been, the Cardinals never would have traded him for poor old Jon Lester. If Alex Call had been a .260 hitter with some pop, he'd have been starting in CF rather than yo-yoing between the Guardians and their AAA team. If Candelario had had a stronger year in 2022, something closer to his career, the Tigers would have offered him a contract at much more money. Jeimer was a doubles guy, but with homer-power, he'd have been a star...and unavailable. Stone Garrett was a nobody. Chavis was a career prospect who got a chance last year in Pittsburgh, and was deemed excess after hitting .230 with a .650 OPS.

That Coles has them hitting for a higher average this year, if Coles is responsible, is a good thing. That he has not made them into the sluggers of my childhood, or my favorite Joe Torre Yankees, just means there is no such thing as magic.

The Nats will have more pop next season if Rizzo is allowed to sign a power-hitting free agent OF, and even more around 2025 if James Wood continues to improve. That's the future.
Average is up across MLB because of the shift ban. Nats average corresponds to that.

Call hit better last year. Garcia was a better hitter last year. Meneses was oblitetating the ball in the WBC, and now is Jose Vidro swinging one handed. Candelario is basically hitting like he did in Detroit (which is not an improvement given changing ballparks)

Lane Thomas is exceeding expectations. Victor Robles is a decent hitter. Beyond that, the Nats are regressing across the board at the plate.

The Nationals have the second lowest ISO in all of MLB. Only Cleveland is worse, but that can be said about anything,anytime or in any situation.
Ding ding ding ...

Offline welch

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #68: May 29, 2023, 02:38:22 PM »
Average is up across MLB because of the shift ban. Nats average corresponds to that.

Call hit better last year. Garcia was a better hitter last year. Meneses was oblitetating the ball in the WBC, and now is Jose Vidro swinging one handed. Candelario is basically hitting like he did in Detroit (which is not an improvement given changing ballparks)

Lane Thomas is exceeding expectations. Victor Robles is a decent hitter. Beyond that, the Nats are regressing across the board at the plate.
Ding ding ding ...

So these guys were sluggers before Rizzo, somehow, got them? I named the players. Which ones would have been kept by the Cardinals, the Mets, the Guardians, and other teams rest if they had had some pop?

Why was Call available? He hit about .150 with the Guardians last season and .240 with the Nats. Has he really regressed, or just bounced the way utility players often do? Or think about Smith: if Dominic Smith had hit better than Pete Alonso, would the Mets have dropped him? That's the obvious point: if any of the players Rizzo collected had been power hitters, the Nats could never have gotten them.

Yet Coles is at fault because Call-Robles-Smith-Candelario-Meneses-Chavis-Vargas-Garrett do not hit homers like Bryce Harper or Trea Turner??

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #69: May 29, 2023, 03:50:03 PM »
So these guys were sluggers before Rizzo, somehow, got them? I named the players. Which ones would have been kept by the Cardinals, the Mets, the Guardians, and other teams rest if they had had some pop?

Why was Call available? He hit about .150 with the Guardians last season and .240 with the Nats. Has he really regressed, or just bounced the way utility players often do? Or think about Smith: if Dominic Smith had hit better than Pete Alonso, would the Mets have dropped him? That's the obvious point: if any of the players Rizzo collected had been power hitters, the Nats could never have gotten them.

Yet Coles is at fault because Call-Robles-Smith-Candelario-Meneses-Chavis-Vargas-Garrett do not hit homers like Bryce Harper or Trea Turner??
Call, Meneses, Garcia, and Garrett all hit for more power in previous seasons. Seems pretty clear that the Darnell Coles approach of just making contact is have a detrinental effect on the power capabilities of several hitters.

Offline welch

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #70: May 29, 2023, 05:06:54 PM »
Call, Meneses, Garcia, and Garrett all hit for more power in previous seasons. Seems pretty clear that the Darnell Coles approach of just making contact is have a detrinental effect on the power capabilities of several hitters.

- Call is hitting about the way he hit in 2022 with the Guardians and Nats.

- Meneses hit with power last August and September. Maybe he is working his way back to the hitter he really is...a fair hitter with some pop, but not able to be the sole home run hitter on the team. That's why I say that this off-season the Nats need to spend for at least one OF something like Werth (or 1B...maybe Rhys Hoskins, assuming the Nats want his fielding and Hoskins will play for whatever the Nats want to pay). Good thing about OF is that the Nats could put someone in left or right or sometimes at DH.

- Garcia is doing well enough

- Garrett has never been a major league hitter. It is probably time to make Dickerson the regular LF, unless Dickerson's leg needs the regular off-day against LH pitchers.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #71: May 29, 2023, 05:32:29 PM »
Call slugged .412 last season. His slugging has dropped 100 points.

Meneses slugged .563 last season. He slugged .593 in the WBC. Slugged .489 in Triple A. But somehow, Darnell got him rocking a .386

Garcia is not doing well enough. He is a worse hitter. He's slugging almost 30 points less. He has over 700 PAs under his belt at the major league level. Also, let's not forget that Garcia was on freaking fire when he was called up last season. Then Darnell got ahold of him, told him to swing away, and he posted a sub .700 OPS in the second half.

Garrett was a MLB hitter last season. He had an OPS over .800, largely led by a .539 slugging percentage. Slugging is at .330 this season.

But Im sure this all has nothing to do with the twice fired for poor performance hitting coach who uses the Little League strategy of "just put the balk in play"

Offline welch

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #72: May 29, 2023, 09:52:44 PM »
Call slugged .412 last season. His slugging has dropped 100 points.

Meneses slugged .563 last season. He slugged .593 in the WBC. Slugged .489 in Triple A. But somehow, Darnell got him rocking a .386

Garcia is not doing well enough. He is a worse hitter. He's slugging almost 30 points less. He has over 700 PAs under his belt at the major league level. Also, let's not forget that Garcia was on freaking fire when he was called up last season. Then Darnell got ahold of him, told him to swing away, and he posted a sub .700 OPS in the second half.

Garrett was a MLB hitter last season. He had an OPS over .800, largely led by a .539 slugging percentage. Slugging is at .330 this season.

But Im sure this all has nothing to do with the twice fired for poor performance hitting coach who uses the Little League strategy of "just put the balk in play"

Oh, come on Slate.


Call barely played last season, so his slugging does not amount to anything like this season. Robles has been missing for a month or more, so Call has played as a regular. All different. If there is a difference, then it is just statistical noise from tiny samples.

Joey M. got two months last season, his first ever in the majors. This season is likely more of who he is, and he is improving. Look at him in July and we might know the real Joey.

Garrett has never been good enough to play in the majors. He had all of 76 AB's last season, and 103 this year. Comparing his slugging % is pointless. He is not a major leaguer, even though he has been a professional since 2014.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #73: May 30, 2023, 09:54:56 AM »
Oh, come on Slate.


Call barely played last season, so his slugging does not amount to anything like this season. Robles has been missing for a month or more, so Call has played as a regular. All different. If there is a difference, then it is just statistical noise from tiny samples.
sorry, but slate has the better argument on Call. fellow had good power numbers and excellent plate discipline in 2021 and 2022 in the high minors and majors.  15 hrs in AA and AAA in 2021, 18 in AAA and majors last year. heck, you are saying ignore the  production in dc last year as a small sample, but he had 5 HRs in half the plate appearances he has this year (115 vs. 210). iso went from .196 to .99. you absolutely can't argue with the power drop off.  he needs to be selective and drive the ball to be effective.

Offline imref

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #74: May 30, 2023, 10:00:13 AM »
sorry, but slate has the better argument on Call. fellow had good power numbers and excellent plate discipline in 2021 and 2022 in the high minors and majors.  15 hrs in AA and AAA in 2021, 18 in AAA and majors last year. heck, you are saying ignore the  production in dc last year as a small sample, but he had 5 HRs in half the plate appearances he has this year (115 vs. 210). iso went from .196 to .99. you absolutely can't argue with the power drop off.  he needs to be selective and drive the ball to be effective.

Call had 115 PAs last year with the Nats, and 16 with Cleveland. Seems like quite the small sample size to reach any conclusions.