Author Topic: Darnell Coles  (Read 4066 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #75: May 30, 2023, 10:10:36 AM »
Call had 115 PAs last year with the Nats, and 16 with Cleveland. Seems like quite the small sample size to reach any conclusions.
which is why i discussed 2 years of high minors and the majors.  i didn't bother with the .200+ iso in columbus. also, even if you want to call it a small sample, his counting stats were better than he has this year in nearly double the PAs.

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #76: May 30, 2023, 10:22:57 AM »
which is why i discussed 2 years of high minors and the majors.  i didn't bother with the .200+ iso in columbus. also, even if you want to call it a small sample, his counting stats were better than he has this year in nearly double the PAs.

So by that logic, it's Kevin Long's fault that Kieboom couldn't hit to save his life in the majors after crushing AAA and the AFL in 2019.

Again, blaming this year's performance on Coles is ridiculous.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #77: May 30, 2023, 01:37:02 PM »
which is why i discussed 2 years of high minors and the majors.  i didn't bother with the .200+ iso in columbus. also, even if you want to call it a small sample, his counting stats were better than he has this year in nearly double the PAs.

He has a small sample size in 2023 as well, so its a fair comparison. The only ones on the team who are hitting better this season are Robles (who, let's be honest, had no where to go but up), and Thomas, who talks extensively about adjusting his approach to recognize pitches better.

Coles has been dismissed from two other clubs due to the players' lack of performance. The question we should be asking is how much better could this team be if they weren't hampered by such a poor hitting coach?

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #78: May 30, 2023, 01:51:09 PM »
Corey Dickerson is slugging .666 this year so far, his career average is .482
Candelario is slugging .447, career average is .405
Dominic Smith is slugging .324, below career average but almost 40 points higher than 2022
CJ Abrams is slugging a career-high .400

Obviously all the credit goes to Coles, right?


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #79: May 30, 2023, 02:52:08 PM »
Dominic Smith is slugging .324, below career average but almost 40 points higher than 2022
:lmao: ok you win. dom smith is the paradigm of Coles's success. so much so that most folks can't wait until he loses his job.

i will give Coles some credit for dickerson if his slg lasts a month.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #80: May 30, 2023, 03:26:39 PM »
I still don't know what hitting coaches are for other than being fired after slumps.

I think Juan Soto would have been Juan Soto even with Rick Eckstein as hitting coach.

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #81: May 30, 2023, 03:42:55 PM »
:lmao: ok you win. dom smith is the paradigm of Coles's success. so much so that most folks can't wait until he loses his job.

i will give Coles some credit for dickerson if his slg lasts a month.

i think very few people know who Darnell Coles is, much less want him to lose his job.  Again, overall this is a team that is over-performing on offense.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #82: May 30, 2023, 03:46:43 PM »
:lmao: ok you win. dom smith is the paradigm of Coles's success. so much so that most folks can't wait until he loses his job.

i will give Coles some credit for dickerson if his slg lasts a month.
Dickerson just spent a month away from Coles. Best slugging of his career after not having Coles involved. Coincidence? I think not

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #83: May 30, 2023, 03:56:47 PM »
i think very few people know who Darnell Coles is, much less want him to lose his job.  Again, overall this is a team that is over-performing on offense.
i was referring to Smith.

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #84: May 30, 2023, 04:25:14 PM »

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #85: May 31, 2023, 11:16:12 AM »
So Kevin Long is the answer, eh?

Player / 2023 OPS+ / 2022
Realmuto: 104 / 131
Bohm: 99 / 102
Stott: 99 / 86
Turner: 81 / 124
Sosa: 85 / 83
Schwarber: 97 / 132
Marsh: 131 / 118
Castellnos: 120 / 97
Harper: 145 / 147

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #86: May 31, 2023, 11:39:47 AM »
Anyone here old enough to remember Mike Vail? The OF for the Mets who had a 20 game hitting streak that convinced management that they did not need Rusty Staub?

That's the predictive value of tiny samples.

The Guardians had Myles Straw playing CF last year and this year. If Call was a real slugger, or even a .250 / .725 OPS guy, he would be starting in CF for Cleveland.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2022.shtml

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #87: May 31, 2023, 11:57:27 AM »
Anyone here old enough to remember Mike Vail? The OF for the Mets who had a 20 game hitting streak that convinced management that they did not need Rusty Staub?

That's the predictive value of tiny samples.

The Guardians had Myles Straw playing CF last year and this year. If Call was a real slugger, or even a .250 / .725 OPS guy, he would be starting in CF for Cleveland.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2022.shtml
Alex Call was a better hitter than Myles Straw last year. They are comparable hitters this year. Straw has elite speed and defense.

Also, the Guardians are like the worst offense in baseball this year.

Offline catocony

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #88: June 02, 2023, 11:42:10 AM »
When Slate says "Call hit whatever last season but is less this season", Call wasn't starting last year.  Joey played for 2 months.  I had never heard of Stone Garrett until this year.  Comparing much heavier playing time now against sporadic or very short term playing time last year is a very false comparison.  Give them a full season to see how the numbers end up.

The vets are mostly career backups, if they've even had a career.  Be happy for how well they've played overall. 

For the rookies and near rookies, keep in mind that most of these guys had no competitive play in 2020 due to the minors being shut down all year.  Guys like Abrams and Garcia are young and due to COVID have even less development time than your average 23 year old MLB player.  I think they're all doing pretty well since they're effectively getting on the job training at the Big League level.  They're not remotely finished players.  They have less minor league time than most guys historically have had on MLB rosters.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #89: June 02, 2023, 11:48:44 AM »
Call started 84% of the games he played in during the 2022 season for DC. He had a .772 OPS with .441 slugging.

Garcia is coming up on a thousand plate appearances at the MLB level. He has gotten way more time than most of his counterparts.

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #90: June 02, 2023, 12:01:18 PM »
Call started 84% of the games he played in during the 2022 season for DC. He had a .772 OPS with .441 slugging.

Garcia is coming up on a thousand plate appearances at the MLB level. He has gotten way more time than most of his counterparts.

Proves than nothing, and suggests less than nothing, unless you are telling us that Mike Vail had a great career. Even Vail had almost 40 games at the end of the 1975 season.

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #91: June 10, 2023, 04:27:36 PM »
Ops up .009 so far this year, without Soto

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #92: June 10, 2023, 04:57:03 PM »
Ops up .009 so far this year, without Soto
wRC+ is down

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #93: July 01, 2023, 06:27:18 PM »
At the halfway point of the season, the Nationals have an OPS of .712. The second half of last season (post Bell and Soto), the Nationals had an OPS of .682. On its face, that is an improvement of 30 points in OPS across the board, with only Candelario being an improvement over what the Nationals had the second half of last season. However, a closer examination reveals that this is not the case, and the Nationals are simply not getting better at the plate, outside of Lane Thomas.

The average OPS last season was .706 across baseball. This year that is up to .729. That is a 23 point increase across MLB. Which means that, in reality, the Nationals have improved a whopping 7 points from the second half of last season to the first half of this season. And that has been almost entirely due to Lane Thomas' breakout season and Jeimer Candelario returning to career norms.

Jeimer Candelario is basically where he was in Detroit two seasons ago. He OPS's .835 away from Motor City.

Did Coles improve Lane Thomas? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. He was already improving the second half of last season and he has stated multiple times that he is simply making a conscious effort to swing earlier in the count, particularly at fastballs. Never once mentioned any help from the coaching staff. And if Coles did help Thomas, its been at the expense of virtually everyone else


Joey Meneses is just ... gone. He was literally mashing the crap out of the baseball in the WBC, and now slugging .371.

Stone Garrett's slugging has dropped over 100 points. You can say small sample size and Arizona, but the dude went from murdering baseballs to barely getting them out of Citizens Bank Park.

Luis Garcia looks awful. He has traded any power he had for a marginal improvement in walk rate. Oh good, an, at best, average second base defender on pace for 10 home runs and an OBP of .310. Glad Coles' philosophy is working so well.

CJ Abrams ... oh man, how is it possible this guy is this bad? He's basically not improved at all, and in many ways gotten worse. He looks totally defeated every time he steps to the plate. He literally hasn't sucked like this since he was an 18 year old in A ball.

Finally ... Keibert. Of all the players, this is the one that hurts the most. He came to DC as a high average, good contact guy with minimal power.  And now ... he's a .230 hitter with sub .400 slugging. Which is odd to me because he is on pace for 18 home runs. If you had told me at the beginning of the year that Ruiz would have 18 home runs, I'd be like, cool, he's an all star. He finished his first season in DC hitting .273. Last year he hit .251. Now he's hitting .233. He is getting worse.

Darnell Coles sucks as a hitting coach. He sucked before he got here, hence why he was let go. Twice. Our marginal increase in OPS is due to Lane Thomas far exceeding his metrics and Rizzo signing Candelario. Beyond that, the core of our offense is getting worse. Coles' approach of just swing and make contact is clearly not applicable at the major league level. Send him back to the minors to work on guys who are actually struggling to make contact.

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #94: July 01, 2023, 09:01:21 PM »
I don’t think hitting coaches matter that much. Lots of Phillies are struggling this year. Does that mean Kevin Long is a bad hitting coach. How about for an idea they try and sign a couple of decent hitters for next year. And throw is in a SP.


Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #95: July 01, 2023, 09:22:46 PM »
I don’t think hitting coaches matter that much. Lots of Phillies are struggling this year. Does that mean Kevin Long is a bad hitting coach. How about for an idea they try and sign a couple of decent hitters for next year. And throw is in a SP.


The Phillies young players are improving. Guys like Marsh, Pache, Stott ... .all improving. Their veterans are getting old and/or recovering from injury.

Its the opposite on the Nats. The young guys are getting worse.

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #96: July 01, 2023, 09:40:22 PM »
I’m sure Candelario’s major improvement from last year is all on him also and despite Coles’ incompetence!

Offline Slateman

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #97: July 01, 2023, 09:48:46 PM »
I’m sure Candelario’s major improvement from last year is all on him also and despite Coles’ incompetence!
He's basically matching what he did in Detroit in 2020 and 2021. Was Coles the hitting coach there too?

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #98: July 01, 2023, 10:04:07 PM »
He's basically matching what he did in Detroit in 2020 and 2021. Was Coles the hitting coach there too?
Ok. You don’t like Coles and will ignore any data that does not support your hypothesis. We get it.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Darnell Coles
« Reply #99: July 02, 2023, 07:50:31 AM »
Coles needs to be judged on the progress of Ruiz, Abrams, and Garcia.  They are the only three that matter, and all three are a tough watch at the plate.  I agree with slate on this one.