Author Topic: The Vegas Athletics  (Read 5531 times)

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #125: August 28, 2023, 02:20:57 PM »
Not really, if you can get a guarantee from the owner that the team will stay in said city for X number of years, you will reap millions of $ on players' salaries via income tax, and millions via sales taxes.

Depends on a number of factors, but yeah-- most recent MLB-built parks were publicly funded.

Obviously Canada & Quebec are different since a big chunk of their public money goes into their welfare/health care coverage for all residents.

The nats with mega contacts don't live in DC and in the DC metro, you pay income taxes where you live not where you work.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #126: August 28, 2023, 08:42:16 PM »
The nats with mega contacts don't live in DC and in the DC metro, you pay income taxes where you live not where you work.

That's sorta unique to DC.  Normally it depends on reciprocal tax agreements between the two jurisdictions.  If there's no such agreement, you absolutely do get taxed where you work.  DC just has universal reciprocity. 

Offline bluestreak

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #127: August 28, 2023, 09:55:21 PM »
Congress has made it illegal for DV to charge tax for people who live elsewhere and work in the district. NYC for instance has a tax on people who work in the city.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #128: August 28, 2023, 09:57:52 PM »
That's sorta unique to DC.  Normally it depends on reciprocal tax agreements between the two jurisdictions.  If there's no such agreement, you absolutely do get taxed where you work.  DC just has universal reciprocity. 

There are other metro areas with reciprocity and it’s not just DC- VA and MD have agreements too

Offline blue911

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #129: August 29, 2023, 06:34:22 AM »
There are other metro areas with reciprocity and it’s not just DC- VA and MD have agreements too

I believe the difference is the district’s is federally mandated.


But the point is still valid. Income tax revenue isn’t a big earner.

Offline blue911

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #130: August 29, 2023, 06:38:43 AM »
 It’s my understanding that players file state income tax returns in every state in which they have played in that tax year.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #131: August 29, 2023, 07:21:31 AM »
It’s my understanding that players file state income tax returns in every state in which they have played in that tax year.

The numbers aren't enough to make stadium economics work, but they aren't nothing either

https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/what-is-the-jock-tax

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #132: August 29, 2023, 09:33:26 AM »
There are other metro areas with reciprocity and it’s not just DC- VA and MD have agreements too

Yes, that's what I said.  The difference is that DC has it literally everywhere: you can work in DC and live literally anywhere and you don't pay DC taxes.

Offline OfftheBat

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #133: August 29, 2023, 11:44:55 AM »
The nats with mega contacts don't live in DC and in the DC metro, you pay income taxes where you live not where you work.

As Elvir mentioned, I think that this is unique to DC.

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #134: August 29, 2023, 12:25:14 PM »
It’s my understanding that players file state income tax returns in every state in which they have played in that tax year.
I've noted before that there is a tax advantage, however slight, to playing for a team like the Rangers or Astros, since all you home games are in a state with no income tax, and your away games against the other Texas club and the Mariners also incur no state income tax. That used to mean at least 100 games, before they reduced the number of in-division games. If the A's do move to Nevada, those games will also be in a state with no income tax.

The Marlins and Rays also have their home games in lower tax jurisdictions, but most of their away games are in higher tax places like New York City.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #135: August 29, 2023, 12:44:58 PM »
I think the economics vary with the sport.

I don't think football works at all. The big parking lots used for very few dates does not work.   I infinitely prefer the model Bob Kraft ended up taking, with some limited infrastucture improvements, private capital for the stadium, and the opportunity for Kraft to grab any synergy by owning and developing the surrounding land. He gets to use the lots for Patriot Place when the Pats aren't playing. he bought the land himself. It's not like Angelos asking the state to buy the land for him so he can make money. Frankly, do that, he should get no money for the stadium since he profits off the development.

I do think both Nats Park and the Gallery Place arena (MCI/Verizon/Cap 1) probably catalyzed some of the development. Whether it was going to happen regardless is another question.  Largo ended up finding an alternate use, so the Arena in particular was a good thing. I think if you have a baseball park or both hockey and hoops in an arena, at least the facility is used 80+ nights per year. I think a two team arena is a bit better an investment than a baseball park just because there can be more concerts and other uses like college sports. 

There are definitely transformative developments but 90% of stadium deals now are simply cash grabs but the richest people alive, and the bootlickers who think they're "good deal for the city" are just rubes. A baseball stadium in Nashville might help develop a new neighborhood, but it also probably was getting developed anyways, and the people benefitting the most are the developers, landlords who sell and friends of the owners who get fat, fat contracts. A demo-and-rebuild football stadium does nothing except make the rich get richer, the poor stay poor and the fans pay more.

The soccer stadium in Nashville was privately funded with the city taking the cost of infrastructure around it and it's definitely helped the neighborhood a ton! But you know what is great: the city is only paying for things the whole city can benefit from, not a new owner's suite.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #136: August 29, 2023, 01:25:09 PM »
agree that rebuilds are basically rich guy extortion. Ideally, relocations within a city lead to reuse of the old location and stimulus / catalysis in the new.

Online imref

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #137: November 16, 2023, 09:29:06 AM »
Owners unanimously approve the A's move to Las Vegas. Next year will be their final year in Oakland.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #138: November 16, 2023, 10:02:24 AM »
Boo. 

Online imref

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #139: November 16, 2023, 10:42:34 AM »
The interesting thing is that they will be homeless from 2025-2028 as the LV stadium isn't expected to be ready until then. At this point, they don't even have an approved design for the stadium and there are still legal challenges in Nevada to the funding plan. It's not out of the question that they sign a short-term lease to stay in Oakland until the end of the 2027 season.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #140: November 16, 2023, 10:50:18 AM »
can they play in a minor league stadium?  Perhaps Portland or Salt Lake sort of as a tryout for a follow on expansion team? Wild idea - why not Montreal? It'd mean division shifting, but they have as major league a stadium as RFK was.

Online imref

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #141: November 16, 2023, 11:05:02 AM »
can they play in a minor league stadium?  Perhaps Portland or Salt Lake sort of as a tryout for a follow on expansion team? Wild idea - why not Montreal? It'd mean division shifting, but they have as major league a stadium as RFK was.
There is an AAA stadium in Las Vegas that seats about 10k but using it would create logistical problems for the team currently playing there, and the A's would probably prefer to have a bigger stadium. I've also seen reports that the MLBPA would oppose playing at a AAA park.

There has also been talk about sharing the Giants' stadium in SF for a few years but the Giants and A's ownership do not have a good relationship from what I read earlier.

Online imref

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #142: November 16, 2023, 11:08:34 AM »
here's an article from a few months ago saying that Oakland would be open to a temporary lease extension provided the League promises an expansion team and requires the existing club to get a new name.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/oakland-athletics/oracle-park-interim-las-vegas-ballpark/1651046/

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #143: November 16, 2023, 11:12:59 AM »
They should play in Philly for a couple of years. 

Online imref

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #144: November 16, 2023, 11:32:51 AM »
They should play in Philly for a couple of years. 

RFK!

Offline 1995hoo

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #145: November 16, 2023, 01:30:18 PM »
can they play in a minor league stadium?  Perhaps Portland or Salt Lake sort of as a tryout for a follow on expansion team? Wild idea - why not Montreal? It'd mean division shifting, but they have as major league a stadium as RFK was.

They wouldn't necessarily have to change divisions, though the travel would be very burdensome if no sort of temporary arrangement could be done. Different sport, but recall when the Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg. They remained in the Southeast Division (other teams located in Washington, Raleigh, Tampa, and near Miami) for two years until the league and the players' union agreed on realignment. Less extreme was Atlanta and Cincinnati competing in the NL West, while Chicago and St. Louis competed in the NL East, from 1969 to 1994.

Offline machpost

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #146: November 16, 2023, 01:40:27 PM »
They wouldn't necessarily have to change divisions, though the travel would be very burdensome if no sort of temporary arrangement could be done. Different sport, but recall when the Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg. They remained in the Southeast Division (other teams located in Washington, Raleigh, Tampa, and near Miami) for two years until the league and the players' union agreed on realignment. Less extreme was Atlanta and Cincinnati competing in the NL West, while Chicago and St. Louis competed in the NL East, from 1969 to 1994.

And the Dallas Cowboys are still in the NFC East.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #147: November 16, 2023, 02:34:33 PM »
I'm looking forward to the next Atlanta NHL team lasting 3 seasons before relocating to Moose Jaw
They wouldn't necessarily have to change divisions, though the travel would be very burdensome if no sort of temporary arrangement could be done. Different sport, but recall when the Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg. They remained in the Southeast Division (other teams located in Washington, Raleigh, Tampa, and near Miami) for two years until the league and the players' union agreed on realignment. Less extreme was Atlanta and Cincinnati competing in the NL West, while Chicago and St. Louis competed in the NL East, from 1969 to 1994.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #148: November 16, 2023, 03:26:11 PM »
I'm looking forward to the next Atlanta NHL team lasting 3 seasons before relocating to Moose Jaw
the Saskatoonafish

Offline welch

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #149: November 17, 2023, 09:18:27 AM »
They should play in Philly for a couple of years. 

Yes! Bring Connie Mack's team back home for a long visit.