Author Topic: The Vegas Athletics  (Read 5607 times)

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Offline Senatorswin

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #100: August 26, 2023, 12:05:50 AM »

Agreed, however I think Montreal shouldn't be on a potential relocation list, the reason being that the current prime minister of the province of Quebec stated that he will not approve any public funding for a new MLB stadium.

I'm grateful they had much the same attitude in the early 2000's.

Online welch

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #101: August 26, 2023, 01:47:40 PM »

Fisher and Angelos: such devoted friends, demanding concessions from state and city governments, and from MLB. The obvious solution:

Browns back to St Louis and A's back to Philadelphia. Both are medium+ markets with fanatic -- I mean phanatic -- baseball fans.

Offline OfftheBat

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #102: August 26, 2023, 04:09:39 PM »
I'm grateful they had much the same attitude in the early 2000's.

You would think that they would use their high income taxes for something good once in a while up here...  :doh:

Offline OfftheBat

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #103: August 26, 2023, 04:15:24 PM »
Interesting video on the possible relocation of the White Sox:


https://youtu.be/hvHU60xDjtM?si=AHLXLGuLF7wkx-Km



Since Nats Park opened in 2008, do you guys think that MLB will start making stadium renovation demands to the Nats soon? It'll be almost 20 years old in a few years.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #104: August 26, 2023, 04:47:54 PM »
Interesting video on the possible relocation of the White Sox:


https://youtu.be/hvHU60xDjtM?si=AHLXLGuLF7wkx-Km



Since Nats Park opened in 2008, do you guys think that MLB will start making stadium renovation demands to the Nats soon? It'll be almost 20 years old in a few years.
they already have. There may be articles in the Nats Park thread.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #105: August 26, 2023, 05:03:53 PM »
they already have. There may be articles in the Nats Park thread.
found it in the red loft thread on the caps and wiz moving to Crystal city

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/06/23/monumental-nationals-dc-bowser/

It's the video board and the lights that the Nats want upgraded. One of the city councilors mentions more generally that there's a lot of deferred maintenance. A few years ago, the Lerners said they wanted the city to pay for a retractable roof.

Quote
The Nationals, meanwhile, have gone back and forth with Events DC, the city’s operator of Nationals Park, about who should fund a number of capital improvements, among them a new scoreboard/video screen and energy-efficient stadium lights, according to two people familiar with those discussions.

Offline OfftheBat

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #106: August 27, 2023, 01:54:47 AM »
found it in the red loft thread on the caps and wiz moving to Crystal city

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/06/23/monumental-nationals-dc-bowser/

It's the video board and the lights that the Nats want upgraded. One of the city councilors mentions more generally that there's a lot of deferred maintenance. A few years ago, the Lerners said they wanted the city to pay for a retractable roof.

Nice read, thanks for sharing. So it looks like these renovations will not be as expensive as the $300M renovations that Milwaukee is currently facing-- boy, it'd be nice to have a chunk of that Qatar wealth fund that Leonsis will be using soon enough.

Online welch

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #107: August 27, 2023, 06:37:44 PM »
John Angelos says he wants Maryland taxpayers to add to the $600 million already set aside to "upgrade" Baltimore's baseball park. Angelos wants to be given land around his stadium to redevelop as hotel/restaurant/upscale housing/etc. Something like Stan Kroenke's "new city" around whatever he is building in Los Angeles. I doubt PG and Montgomery county taxpayers will be happy to pay for that.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #108: August 27, 2023, 06:46:12 PM »
John Angelos says he wants Maryland taxpayers to add to the $600 million already set aside to "upgrade" Baltimore's baseball park. Angelos wants to be given land around his stadium to redevelop as hotel/restaurant/upscale housing/etc. Something like Stan Kroenke's "new city" around whatever he is building in Los Angeles. I doubt PG and Montgomery county taxpayers will be happy to pay for that.

Nor will us Anne Arundel County folks.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #109: August 27, 2023, 06:51:05 PM »
John Angelos says he wants Maryland taxpayers to add to the $600 million already set aside to "upgrade" Baltimore's baseball park. Angelos wants to be given land around his stadium to redevelop as hotel/restaurant/upscale housing/etc. Something like Stan Kroenke's "new city" around whatever he is building in Los Angeles. I doubt PG and Montgomery county taxpayers will be happy to pay for that.

We’re about to see how corrupt Maryland is

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #110: August 27, 2023, 07:15:28 PM »
Along these lines, what if MD said "freak off?" That is a massive developable space near the harbor. The whole area could use a series of tear downs and rebuilds, from the inner harbor to the park. The Warehouse itself would work better as condos than as offices. Perhaps incubator space for startups? Need housing.

Offline blue911

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #111: August 27, 2023, 07:20:27 PM »
We’re about to see how corrupt Maryland is

Marvin Mandel, Spiro Agnew aren’t enough for you?

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #112: August 27, 2023, 08:09:13 PM »
Any money given to Camden Yards also has to be offered to the Ravens stadium. That was one of the perks to get the Browns to Maryland. The Ravens have already accepted their $600 million.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #113: August 27, 2023, 08:14:01 PM »
Along these lines, what if MD said "freak off?" That is a massive developable space near the harbor. The whole area could use a series of tear downs and rebuilds, from the inner harbor to the park. The Warehouse itself would work better as condos than as offices. Perhaps incubator space for startups? Need housing.
Leave the stadium there and have the Nationals play work home games there each year.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #114: August 27, 2023, 08:17:04 PM »
Along these lines, what if MD said "freak off?" That is a massive developable space near the harbor. The whole area could use a series of tear downs and rebuilds, from the inner harbor to the park. The Warehouse itself would work better as condos than as offices. Perhaps incubator space for startups?
 Need housing.
Have you been there outside of an Os game recently? Development is a pipe dream, a lack of violent crime should be a priority before convincing people to live there

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #115: August 27, 2023, 08:45:47 PM »
Downhil for the last 35 years. Sad.

Have you been there outside of an Os game recently? Development is a pipe dream, a lack of violent crime should be a priority before convincing people to live there

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #116: August 28, 2023, 09:23:24 AM »
Have you been there outside of an Os game recently? Development is a pipe dream, a lack of violent crime should be a priority before convincing people to live there
yah. What I'm kind of pushing for is trying to gentrify south of Pratt from 295 east to the harbor. Gentrify is a bad word, but do that, and I'm thinking there'd be folks who be more effective in advocating for cutting crime and in gradually calming more of the area west of there. Sort of the Logan Circle approach.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #117: August 28, 2023, 11:00:10 AM »
You would think that they would use their high income taxes for something good once in a while up here...  :doh:

Funding a stadium for a billionaire is one of the dumbest/most irresponsible ways to spend taxpayer money I can possibly think of.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #118: August 28, 2023, 11:12:19 AM »
Funding a stadium for a billionaire is one of the dumbest/most irresponsible ways to spend taxpayer money I can possibly think of.

Tennessee just happily gave $2 billion in taxpayer money to a billionaire NFL owner to build a new stadium because they were bored with a 20-year-old stadium. Just a giant grift where the rich get richer and we get the privilege of paying $20 for bud light.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #119: August 28, 2023, 11:23:58 AM »
Tennessee just happily gave $2 billion in taxpayer money to a billionaire NFL owner to build a new stadium because they were bored with a 20-year-old stadium. Just a giant grift where the rich get richer and we get the privilege of paying $20 for bud light.
be kind of nice if there were federal legislation prohibiting tax exempt status for bonds that finance big upgrades or replacements for stadiums that are less than 30 years old. Save stupid legislatures from themselves.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #120: August 28, 2023, 11:37:36 AM »
Tennessee just happily gave $2 billion in taxpayer money to a billionaire NFL owner to build a new stadium because they were bored with a 20-year-old stadium. Just a giant grift where the rich get richer and we get the privilege of paying $20 for bud light.

In addition to replacing 20-year old minor league stadiums in Knoxville and Chattanooga (although to be fair the one in Chattanooga should never have been built; it's basically the Pfitz).

As the only other TN resident on here (I think), crap's a little weird in terms of the wider world.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #121: August 28, 2023, 11:47:42 AM »
Tennessee just happily gave $2 billion in taxpayer money to a billionaire NFL owner to build a new stadium because they were bored with a 20-year-old stadium. Just a giant grift where the rich get richer and we get the privilege of paying $20 for bud light.

Or just not showing up becuase we're sick of it.

Offline OfftheBat

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #122: August 28, 2023, 12:20:18 PM »
Funding a stadium for a billionaire is one of the dumbest/most irresponsible ways to spend taxpayer money I can possibly think of.

Not really, if you can get a guarantee from the owner that the team will stay in said city for X number of years, you will reap millions of $ on players' salaries via income tax, and millions via sales taxes.

Depends on a number of factors, but yeah-- most recent MLB-built parks were publicly funded.

Obviously Canada & Quebec are different since a big chunk of their public money goes into their welfare/health care coverage for all residents.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #123: August 28, 2023, 12:44:49 PM »
Not really, if you can get a guarantee from the owner that the team will stay in said city for X number of years, you will reap millions of $ on players' salaries via income tax, and millions via sales taxes.

The actual economics of this never really check out. They never, ever really equal out unless it's a truly transformative event like Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, or in other words an entirely new team & sport to a city. When you're just moving across the street, the city and state are getting money stolen by someone so rich they could pay for the stadium twice.

Especially in an NFL situation where all an owner has to do is tell a lender they own an NFL team with guaranteed hundreds of millions in pure profit a year.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Vegas Athletics
« Reply #124: August 28, 2023, 01:53:00 PM »
The actual economics of this never really check out. They never, ever really equal out unless it's a truly transformative event like Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, or in other words an entirely new team & sport to a city. When you're just moving across the street, the city and state are getting money stolen by someone so rich they could pay for the stadium twice.

Especially in an NFL situation where all an owner has to do is tell a lender they own an NFL team with guaranteed hundreds of millions in pure profit a year.
I think the economics vary with the sport.

I don't think football works at all. The big parking lots used for very few dates does not work.   I infinitely prefer the model Bob Kraft ended up taking, with some limited infrastucture improvements, private capital for the stadium, and the opportunity for Kraft to grab any synergy by owning and developing the surrounding land. He gets to use the lots for Patriot Place when the Pats aren't playing. he bought the land himself. It's not like Angelos asking the state to buy the land for him so he can make money. Frankly, do that, he should get no money for the stadium since he profits off the development.

I do think both Nats Park and the Gallery Place arena (MCI/Verizon/Cap 1) probably catalyzed some of the development. Whether it was going to happen regardless is another question.  Largo ended up finding an alternate use, so the Arena in particular was a good thing. I think if you have a baseball park or both hockey and hoops in an arena, at least the facility is used 80+ nights per year. I think a two team arena is a bit better an investment than a baseball park just because there can be more concerts and other uses like college sports.