Author Topic: Nationals Prospect Reports / Minor League Rankings 2023  (Read 1103 times)

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Offline DCsOwn

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https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1629104206551343112?s=20

Bowden's name is pretty much mud in some circles (including this one ostensibly), but I will say that he was right as rain about Soto a few seasons before he became really en vogue. Bowden had him as the number 2 prospect in the sport when he was still ranked in the 20s on some lists. Could've been a broken clock situation, but still, he's clearly very high on the Nats future outfield.

Offline Smithian

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Hassell gives me Nick Markakis vibes. Good at making contact but otherwise a light hitter who plays average defense in a corner outfield spot.

Which would honestly be a great outcome.
If he wants to turn into poor man's Adam Eaton, I'd be happy.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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https://blogs.fangraphs.com/zips-2023-top-100-prospects/

this one is a list spit out by one of FGs projection systems, ZiPS by Dan Szymborski (or something close to that).  His projections are exclusively a massive number crunching exercise where ZiPS predicts future WAR based on numbers so far.  As DS puts it

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ZiPS is a useful tool, but the projections, whether for prospects or for baseball as a whole, are not intended to replace scouting. The purpose of ZiPS is to get the best answers possible from the data available, not necessarily to be the one-ring-to-prove-them-all-unified-field-theory-giant-Katamari-Damacy-ball of prognostication. ZiPS doesn’t see some things that scouts do. But by being able to process large amounts of data and instantly put those numbers into context and make adjustments, ZiPS also sees some things that scouts can’t. Computers and humans have different strengths, after all.
...
Naturally, there is a lot of agreement between ZiPS and other lists when it comes to top prospects. Elite prospects tend to please both the scouts and the silicon, and 68 of this year’s ZiPS Top 100 overlap with the official FanGraphs Top 100. The ZiPS list should be used in addition to other lists, not in a mutually exclusive fashion.

I’ve adjusted the methodology of the rankings slightly, going with the interquartile mean for career WAR rather than the 50th percentile projection. That’s because, with the benefit of hindsight, it consistently slightly outperforms the 50th percentile rankings (though none of the actual rankings will be retconned for the ZiPS Cinematic Universe). ZiPS will still have a tendency to like high-floor, low-ceiling players more than scouts do. This is understandable given the nature of projections; scouts are optimistic by nature, traveling to Hagerstown or Kannapolis to see something special, not just to find a useful fourth outfielder or innings-eating fourth starter.

Based on that description, you'd expect guys who have hit the majors and seem like they will stick or expected call ups to rank ahead of guys who are further away with jaw-dropping potential due to their tools.  So, it is little surprise that, even with FGs rep for being data oriented, this list looks a lot different than the evaluation yesterday, especially w/r/t the toolsy A ballers in our system, and even worse if the A baller missed time due to injury.  Youd also expect to see a few of the players who aren't thought of as keys to the future but likely to get some time show up.  And you'd be right, because you are pretty insightful.

The Nats who make ZiPS top 100:

42.  Robert Hassell III
55. James Wood
62. Cade Cavalli

Cavalli is same spot on both lists, but yes, the big riser is Hassell, House and Green disappear, and there's a big "hold on a bit" on Wood.

Some names appear as you go by position.

Pineda is the #10 catcher.

No surprise infield prospects for Alu fans (He's not there).

Hassell is #7 OF, Wood #10. Wood is due an explanation:

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The most notable projection here may be how low Nats outfielder James Wood ranks. In this case, ZiPS is designed to be skeptical about players with little minor league time — and completely agnostic about high schoolers yet to debut — and it’s actually fairly impressive that he ranks this highly. If all goes well, Wood has an easy path to the ZiPS overall top 10 in 2024. That is, if he doesn’t blow through the minors quickly; the Nats were certainly willing to give Juan Soto a chance very, very quickly, and if he continues to hit like this, it’ll be hard to not use Wood similarly.

Cavalli is the #16 pitcher; no others in the top 30.  I have a feeling that would be different but for Henry's TOS.


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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comments have a nice back and forth between posts and DS regarding Alu.  Bottom line is he was borderline top 100 with a higher median 3 ear projection of 8.3 WAR.

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scottsjunk1981:

Is he in the top 200? And why is he so far below, for example, Spencer Steer, who is the same age, plays the same position and has a lower median Zips in each of the next 3 years? If this a median / interquartile mean oddity, does that mean that most of Alu’s value comes from long-ish tail upside?
...

Dan Szymborski:
He’s not far from the top 100. ZiPS actually sees more upside from Steer than Alu, which is why Steer made it and Alu didn’t.


scottsjunk1981:

Interesting – so Alu has a lower bust rate / outperforms in the 10-20th percentile outcomes, and that’s bringing down Steer’s median, but the interquartile mean lets his realistic upside (60-75th percentile) shine through. That makes sense.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Finally, one more for the mining of FG: picks of players who may be in the top 100 next year. Vacquero makes the list (selected by Eric Longenhagen) as a guy with massive tools but too little stateside experience, too young, and too distant from the majors to be reliably projected.

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This is the prospect phenotype comprised of the high-variance players, risky toolsheds who are far away from the big leagues but who have gigantic ceilings. ... Vaquero is the Platonic Ideal of this prospect category, an uber-projectable outfielder built like Justin Jefferson who stands a chance to break out at basically any time.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/picks-to-click-who-we-expect-to-make-the-2024-top-100/

Offline nobleisthyname

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If he wants to turn into poor man's Adam Eaton, I'd be happy.

That's an even better comparison.

Offline imref

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Offline Natsinpwc

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Makes me wonder. Is Darren Baker still with the club?

Offline Slateman

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Makes me wonder. Is Darren Baker still with the club?
Yep just turned 24

Offline imref

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Makes me wonder. Is Darren Baker still with the club?
had a hit the other day IIRC

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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That's an even better comparison.

Too bad, because I think people underestimate or forget how good Markakis was.  He got that contract from Atlanta for a reason.

Hassell's real boom case is if he can play CF.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Too bad, because I think people underestimate or forget how good Markakis was.  He got that contract from Atlanta for a reason.
I remember when he and RZ got long term contracts at the same time, Sheinin or another writer wrote a piece about the teams locking in franchise players and how this would add to the area rivalry.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Too bad, because I think people underestimate or forget how good Markakis was.  He got that contract from Atlanta for a reason.

Hassell's real boom case is if he can play CF.

Totally. That's probably a 90th percentile outcome for Hassell.

Offline imref

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BBA posted their next ten Nats prospects to watch beyond the top 30.  Anyone have a subscription and can post the list?

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/10-nationals-prospects-to-watch-beyond-the-top-30/