Author Topic: Completed deadline deals - 2021  (Read 8475 times)

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Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #225: September 08, 2021, 01:17:46 PM »
Ruiz and Gray could go into the HOF and Grant Paulsen would still think we got bad value.

Grant Paulsen?  Think?

Offline welch

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #226: September 08, 2021, 01:42:34 PM »
I think we will have some idea of Gray and Ruiz by the end of the season. If they flop, the deadline trades will look dismal. Of course, there would still be hope that they pull something together during the off-season, and show it in Spring Training.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #227: September 08, 2021, 02:17:05 PM »
What Gray and Ruiz do this season has 0 impact on the trades and their success.

Offline imref

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #228: September 08, 2021, 03:01:47 PM »
What Gray and Ruiz do this season has 0 impact on the trades and their success.

Yep. How they do next year is a much better indicator.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #229: September 08, 2021, 03:42:55 PM »
I think we will have some idea of Gray and Ruiz by the end of the season. If they flop, the deadline trades will look dismal. Of course, there would still be hope that they pull something together during the off-season, and show it in Spring Training.

Some idea, sure.  But these guys are 23.  Most prospects that age, even top ones, are still in the minors. 

For example, Cade Cavalli was born within a month of Ruiz and he's been a fast-moving prospect.  There are even a number of top-100 prospects around baseball who retain that status despite being 23 and in AA.  I remember seeing one of them in high-A earlier this year before he moved up. 

Now age isn't everything, but a few years ago the Diamondbacks had a 23-year-old starter go winless in a few starts.  He had good stuff but was wild, inconsistent, and couldn't go deep in games, so they sent him to the bullpen and then AAA before bringing him back for another season - in which he only managed 170 innings and an ERA over 4 despite making 30 starts.  They then traded him to the Tigers. 

That was Max Scherzer.  Don't rate starting pitchers - or catchers - on what they do at 23 in the majors.

Offline welch

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #230: September 08, 2021, 04:33:33 PM »
"Some idea"...to repeat.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #231: September 09, 2021, 06:15:22 PM »
I’m concerned about the damage being done to Adams and Barrera psychologically by anointing Ruiz the number one catcher though he has not hit very well since he was inserted into the lineup. Maybe Barrera is only a backup but he hit while he was playing and now he is in Rochester. He belongs here rather than Avila and Blanco can mentor all three candidates.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #232: September 09, 2021, 06:20:39 PM »
If a player suffers developmental damage because a team acquired a younger, higher potential player than themselves then they probably aren't long for major league baseball. Barrera is a 27-year-old rookie who, yes, did play well up here, but was only here due to emergency. His minor league numbers are bad. I like the guy but not a big deal. Ruiz has absolutely mashed in the minors and clearly has boatloads of potential so it's obvious they will let him work through bumps now. If they're destined to be good MLB players they'll just keep playing well wherever they are at and it will work itself out.

Adams came from a team with 3 catchers above him on the depth chart so this is actually a better situation for him.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #233: September 09, 2021, 06:21:43 PM »
I’m concerned about the damage being done to Adams and Barrera psychologically by anointing Ruiz the number one catcher though he has not hit very well since he was inserted into the lineup. Maybe Barrera is only a backup but he hit while he was playing and now he is in Rochester. He belongs here rather than Avila and Blanco can mentor all three candidates.

 I think Barrera is part of an offseason trade package

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #234: September 09, 2021, 07:39:48 PM »
If a player suffers developmental damage because a team acquired a younger, higher potential player than themselves then they probably aren't long for major league baseball. Barrera is a 27-year-old rookie who, yes, did play well up here, but was only here due to emergency. His minor league numbers are bad. I like the guy but not a big deal. Ruiz has absolutely mashed in the minors and clearly has boatloads of potential so it's obvious they will let him work through bumps now. If they're destined to be good MLB players they'll just keep playing well wherever they are at and it will work itself out.

Adams came from a team with 3 catchers above him on the depth chart so this is actually a better situation for him.

His minor league numbers aren't bad at all.  This season was only 40 games at AAA.  Before that his numbers were perfectly fine for a defensively advanced catcher.  He's definitely worth keeping around as he has options.  He either sits in AAA and comes up for injuries or he becomes the backup when either Adams or Ruiz prove they can't or shouldn't catch.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #235: September 21, 2021, 09:49:55 PM »
Ruiz looking like a legit #1 mlb catcher.  Thomas playing like a starter, maybe.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #236: October 04, 2021, 10:13:38 AM »
How we feeling at the end of the year?

Dodgers trade will take years to determine.

Schwarber trade was complicated with his injury. Aldo Ramirez really has struggled with the Nationals. Let's hope he gets better.

Lester and Hand trades are huge wins.

A's trade still is too early to call.

Padres trade is still early, but I am still really high on Mason Thompson turning into a good multi-inning reliever.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #237: October 04, 2021, 10:35:28 AM »
Honestly, from what I've seen of Ruiz and Gray, the Scherzer / Turner deal is a win even without considering the guys we have not seen yet.  Ruiz looks very good.  A legit RoTY candidate next year.  The guy has a terrific batting eye.  I would have liked to have seen a few more homers from him as a lefty, and I'm surprised at the lack of walks, but in 89 PAs with us, the kid walked more than he struck out (for the season, due to his 8 PAs with the Dodgers, that's not true), which is a rare skill for a rookie. Defense seemed at least adequate. The only caveat for me is it is just one month. 

Gray has the dinger problem, but his stuff is great, good poise, and looks like a major league rotation regular. 

Online Slateman

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #238: October 04, 2021, 12:58:45 PM »
How we feeling at the end of the year?

Dodgers trade will take years to determine.

Schwarber trade was complicated with his injury. Aldo Ramirez really has struggled with the Nationals. Let's hope he gets better.

Lester and Hand trades are huge wins.

A's trade still is too early to call.

Padres trade is still early, but I am still really high on Mason Thompson turning into a good multi-inning reliever.
Schwarber's injury was a motherfreaker, but I do wonder if Rizzo would have tried to "go for it" with a healthy Schwarb hitting bombs through July. I don't think it would have been enough, but it might have been enough to convince him to make some deals at the deadline.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #239: October 04, 2021, 01:21:12 PM »
The Orioles directly contributed to the Nats being blown up and would also have prevented the Sawks from making the playoffs had we not rolled over so easily on the last day.  That's how to play it as a cellar dweller...creative destruction!

Offline catocony

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #240: October 04, 2021, 02:18:27 PM »
For what amounts to a year of Turner, the Nats have a very good/elite catching combo for the next 5+ seasons, a starting outfielder (or at worst a 4th outfielder) and a #3 starter.  That's pretty good, and with lots of other prospects who may or may not make it. 

Offline welch

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #241: October 04, 2021, 02:45:54 PM »
Schwarber's injury was a motherfreaker, but I do wonder if Rizzo would have tried to "go for it" with a healthy Schwarb hitting bombs through July. I don't think it would have been enough, but it might have been enough to convince him to make some deals at the deadline.

Seems about right, although Corbin was pitching towards oblivion. Rizzo might have swung some deals for pitching. What might have decided things seems like a combination of the Schwarber injury and finding that Strasburg would need surgery. An Athletic article on the Padres and AJ Preller makes the point that Max was the only good pitcher that might have been available. The Padres ended up with Arrieta and somebody equally bad.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #242: October 04, 2021, 03:10:11 PM »
Schwarber's injury was a motherfreaker, but I do wonder if Rizzo would have tried to "go for it" with a healthy Schwarb hitting bombs through July. I don't think it would have been enough, but it might have been enough to convince him to make some deals at the deadline.
Schwarber would have cooled off a bit and the team would probably have won in the mid 80's

His injury saved us from a season stuck in the mud.

Offline imref

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #243: October 04, 2021, 03:30:34 PM »
Schwarber would have cooled off a bit and the team would probably have won in the mid 80's

His injury saved us from a season stuck in the mud.

we would have needed two starters at the deadline

Offline varoadking

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #244: October 04, 2021, 03:49:47 PM »
Being rid of FP will go down as the biggest win of all...

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #245: October 04, 2021, 03:50:20 PM »
we would have needed two starters at the deadline
And a crap load of relief pithchers. We lost 36 games due to the bullpen and 22 since the blow up. Hudson was our only reliable guy.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #246: October 04, 2021, 03:54:16 PM »
Being rid of FP will go down as the biggest win of all...

until justin maxwell and grant paulsen are our new team

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #247: October 04, 2021, 04:00:22 PM »
Schwarber would have cooled off a bit and the team would probably have won in the mid 80's

His injury saved us from a season stuck in the mud.
Mid 80's would have put them in the thick of the division race.

The moves became obvious by the time the deadline came, but this division was very much up for the taking. Things could have been different if they could have gotten out of neutral in May and June. Things could have been very different at the deadline and now if things earlier on hadn't go as poorly as they did.

Offline imref

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #248: October 04, 2021, 05:15:10 PM »
And a crap load of relief pithchers. We lost 36 games due to the bullpen and 22 since the blow up. Hudson was our only reliable guy.

Acquiring the pitching we needed to compete would have meant trading Garcia and Cavalli at a minimum, plus a whole lot more. Once Strasburg and Ross went down,  we had Max, Fedde, Corbin, & Espino, plus whatever scrap-heap guys we could find like Rogers. 

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Completed deadline deals - 2021
« Reply #249: October 04, 2021, 05:52:36 PM »
Being rid of FP will go down as the biggest win of all...


Is this confirmed?