Nats looking @ Elijah Dukes...

[2k6nats]

Why would Young plead guilty to assault and a year of probation if he was just holding her down?

[Kenz aFan]

yes it would shock most of us but they are not in the public scene and nobody knows about them and when they do they are condemned just as well.

While it's very true that middle school teachers may not be in the public eye, but what they are is in a position to influence the young minds they are supposed to be teaching. And that influence is 7 to 8 hours a days, 5 days a week, and up to 10 months a year... With that much influence, maybe they should be in the public eye as well...

[shoeshineboy]

"Hi! I'm Darryl Strawberry!  I did crack and I am an acting ambassador to the game!  I was at the 2007 Draft and you weren't!"

Sean Taylor, Fred Smoot, among others have certainly had their share of off-the-field issues and it all seems to gets cancelled out by the play on the field.
Paul LoDuca lied to his 19 y/o mistress about his marital status and has gotten tied up with betting accusations
Steve Trachsel allegedly gave his girl the clap
Frank Robinson didn't have any qualms about having his mistress around the team the whole time.
These guys regularly have their share of incidents, and most of these married guys are sleeping with strippers on the road and getting into fights with their wives at home, while crossing themselves at home plate on Sundays.

Pro sports are filled with guys with all kinds of "character" issues who have had run ins with the law and have plenty of "domestic issues" with their wives and/or girlfriends/strippers. Youth and inexperience mixed with a perpetual frat house environment, booze, lots of money, and a constant parade of groupies has a tendency to produce some bad behavior. Throw in a rougher background, poorer education, a big chip on the shoulder, and a few kids with the girlfriend by the age of 20, and the problems only escalate for someone living in a hyper-testosterone environment.

These are very young people living very abnormal lives who are often ill-equipped to handle certain situations. Many have come from backgrounds where they have felt disenfranchised and mistreated. And overall, pro sports are not filled with a bunch of angels. This kid is not the first person to have some very damning things come out about him that make him seem like some savage. We tend to look the other way when someone is more familiar. People questioned the backgrounds of both Young and Belliard before he came in. Sometimes there is more under the surface that doesn't get reported.

But we can't pretend that there aren't plenty of athletes in all sports who haven had problems. Everyone has flaws, and most people, if their worst behavior was the only thing anybody sees would look pretty terrible.

I think the team needs to be very careful with a guy like Dukes, but need to approach this with a more open mind. They should be able to determine how much risk there really is and whether they believe this guy can be productive within the organization.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Sean Taylor, Fred Smoot, among others have certainly had their share of off-the-field issues and it all seems to gets cancelled out by the play on the field.
Paul LoDuca lied to his 19 y/o mistress about his marital status and has gotten tied up with betting accusations
Steve Trachsel allegedly gave his girl the clap
Frank Robinson didn't have any qualms about having his mistress around the team the whole time.
These guys regularly have their share of incidents, and most of these married guys are sleeping with strippers on the road and getting into fights with their wives at home, while crossing themselves at home plate on Sundays.

Pro sports are filled with guys with all kinds of "character" issues who have had run ins with the law and have plenty of "domestic issues" with their wives and/or girlfriends/strippers. Youth and inexperience mixed with a perpetual frat house environment, booze, lots of money, and a constant parade of groupies has a tendency to produce some bad behavior. Throw in a rougher background, poorer education, a big chip on the shoulder, and a few kids with the girlfriend by the age of 20, and the problems only escalate for someone living in a hyper-testosterone environment.

These are very young people living very abnormal lives who are often ill-equipped to handle certain situations. Many have come from backgrounds where they have felt disenfranchised and mistreated. And overall, pro sports are not filled with a bunch of angels. This kid is not the first person to have some very damning things come out about him that make him seem like some savage. We tend to look the other way when someone is more familiar. People questioned the backgrounds of both Young and Belliard before he came in. Sometimes there is more under the surface that doesn't get reported.

But we can't pretend that there aren't plenty of athletes in all sports who haven't had problems. Everyone has flaws, and most people, if their worst behavior was the only thing anybody sees would look pretty terrible.

I think the team needs to be very careful with a guy like Dukes, but need to approach this with a more open mind. They should be able to determine how much risk there really is and whether they believe this guy can be productive within the organization.

"Hello, my name is Dock Ellis and I wore hair curlers onto the field one day and pitched a no-hitter on LSD."

[Kenz aFan]

In other news, mods and users can now ignore each other!

I'm don't plan on ignoring anyone, now or in the future. Besides, anyone who might be under consideration to be ignored isn't worth the effort of clicking on so why bother.

BTW, I'm considering a new avatar design... "The Canadian Flash" 

[shoeshineboy]

"Hello, my name is Dock Ellis and I wore hair curlers onto the field one day and pitched a no-hitter on LSD."

That was the best.

[Evolution33]

A man much wiser than I once said, "There are no bad boys. There is only bad environment, bad training, bad example, bad thinking." and to me, Dukes is a victim of all 4 bads quoted. There's no arguing that he has a ton of talent, but comparing him to any kind of low life is just plain one hundred percent wrong. In the Devil Rays minor league system, he had guys like Delmon Young to help influence him along the way, not the best roll model to have. I truly believe Dukes is a product of his environment. The Nats organization is filled with class players and coaches, those that had any problems turned it around because of the people around them, so I would fully expect that Dukes would turn things around as well.

I have a long time friend, who when he was in his late teens to mid 20's, was expected by everyone who knew him, to end up dead or in prison. But he changed his circle of friends, and is today one of the most respected people in the community. People are people no matter where they are, and people can help change people. With that thought, I would prefer it was the Nats that helped make Elijah Dukes a better person and reap the rewards, not some other team.

You're bringing back nightmares of my political philosophy class.

[nats2playoffs]

Why would Young plead guilty to assault and a year of probation if he was just holding her down?

Probably a plea bargain with a guaranteed outcome, that did not include jail.  The terms of probation might have eliminated any criminal record, depending on the law there.  There's always a risk of losing if you try the case, even if the accused is completely innocent.  Maybe there was more to it than Young said, if he had an alcohol problem. 

A man much wiser than I once said, "There are no bad boys. There is only bad environment, bad training, bad example, bad thinking." and to me, Dukes is a victim of all 4 bads quoted....

The most effective thing that Dukes might do now is to get out of the Tampa Bay geographic area.  His domestic relations problems might have been influenced by a desire to see his children, who were separated from him by divorce.  Using children as a weapon in divorce can have all sorts of negative effects on people who are not athletes. 

For 2007 Dmitri Young planned to get a RV and drive around the country watching his brother play MLB.  Then Bowden called with a second chance.  Young might be the type of person who could help Dukes deal with life.  Young said he saw a lot of people in rehab whose lives were messed up, which gave him a different perspective.

[shoeshineboy]

His domestic relations problems might have been influenced by a desire to see his children, who were separated from him by divorce.  Using children as a weapon in divorce can have all sorts of negative effects on people who are not athletes. 

Enter stage left: Alec Baldwin.

BTW, do you think the White Sox will decide to part ways with Juan Uribe even though he settled the case where he was accused of shooting the farmer by paying him $25k?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/11/AR2007061102284.html

[Kenz aFan]

This is the worst idea I've ever heard, really.  I can't believe anybody would take the risk of adding a player who's accused of threatening to kill his wife and children and then sending her a email with a picture of him with a gun!  He makes adding Terrell Owens to your team look like a good idea.

The cries of "bad influence" or "bad seed" were barely noticable when the Nats signed Wil Cordero, a know wife beater. Why were the cries barely heard, because his wife beating incident was at least a couple years in the past. Cordero changed with the help of outside influences, and he was well past 22 years old. If Cordero could change and repent, why not someone younger?

Just considering it, is probably corrosive to team chemistry, without him even being on the roster!

For years the Yankees has zero team chemistry and they still managed to win championships and earn World Series rings. Chemistry isn't at all what it's cracked up to be. On field actions are what win championships, not clubhouse camaraderie. Besides clubhouse and off the field antics, give fans something extra to talk about. We love it and hate it at, all at once.

[The Chief]

I think a notable difference is that Young reportedly had behavioral issues due to substance abuse and untreated diabetes, both of which he dealt with before being called up by the Nats. I recall reading about only one isolated incident in Young's case rather than a string of incidents as in Duke's case. And we hear only good things about Dmitri's clubhouse presence and influence. That said, I was also apprehensive about Young when he was first signed.

I think that pretty much sums up what I was going to say.

All of that having been said, however, I have never had a beer with any of these guys, so I don't feel fit to make a call on whether or not they would be a good addition based on their personality.  I can only go by what I know, so if management thinks he would be a good addition and can turn himself around, I say go for it.

I was going to make a Gary Sheffield joke here, but I couldn't think of any.

[nats2playoffs]

...For years the Yankees has zero team chemistry and they still managed to win championships and earn World Series rings....

According to Jim Bouton's Ball Four there was some chemistry on those old Yankees teams.  It sometimes involved something called "beaver hunting."

[Kenz aFan]

According to Jim Bouton's Ball Four there was some chemistry on those old Yankees teams.  It sometimes involved something called "beaver hunting."

Canada is well known for it's "beavers" and up here, beaver hunting is almost a national sport...

[Dave B]

As far as comparing Dmitri's demons vs Dukes's demons and saying Dmitri is a veteran yada yada...

I think Dmitri's could be worse because he is older. Dukes is only 22. He could grow up.

[mikehughes]

Another article on this story from MLB Rumors..

Nationals To Acquire Dukes?
 
The Washington Nationals are actively pursuing troubled Devil Rays prospect Elijah Dukes. Dukes has been the topic of many trades because he would bring back something in return, and his off the field scuffles are upsetting the team and the Front Office. Dukes would fit nice in Washington. He would be able to step into a leading role with the team and benefit from Manny Acta's style of play. Furthermore, Jim Bowden is known for giving troubled stars another shot. He signed Dmitri Young and Ronnie Belliard, both who had trouble in the off season or the season before. Dmitri Young was released by the Tigers because he was struggling and had some attitude problems while Belliard had some off the field problems. Bringing in Dukes would help the team and could revitalized his slow season, and his troubled start in Tampa. He is batting .196 with 10 HR and 21 RBI. It would also clear his off the field image and a change of scenery, although it is not to a contender, would allow him to start fresh and grow into the ball player he is capable of becoming in a low media environment.

Link: http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/2007/06/nationals-to-acquire-dukes.html

[mikehughes]

The D-rays want a solid reliver for him, how about Rauch,Rivera, or abreu. We wouldnt be giving up that much seeing how Ayala is coming back sometime soon. We would be gaining more than we would be losing.

I also have heard their is talk of a Cordero for Dukes trade. Anyone else heard anything about this?

[The Chief]

Haha, so they're saying that Tampa is a higher media environment than we are?

[nospinzone1]

This is ridiculous and I completely agree with JMAD.

Young, has had problems and there is no guarntee that they will not come back so we might as well stop pretending he is some "just add water-Jesus."  He has well documented issues as does Dukes.  They are in the same freaking boat.

Also, have we forgotten the pink elephant demons in JimBo's closet?

Ronnie Belliard impregnated some guy's wife (who miscarriaged).  Oh, Belliard was married and had two kids of his own at the time too.

DIFFERENCE LIKE DAY AND NITE. THE C&P THAT WS POSTED STATED THAT YOUNG WAS BEING ATTACKED. WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DO. WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER STARTED HITTING YOU?

[shoeshineboy]

Haha, so they're saying that Tampa is a higher media environment than we are?

Yeah, I love that line. That's a pretty big shot at the low profile coverage that the Nats have gotten. Certainly, DC media coverage can be completely over the top once something actually catches on. And once that happens, off the field antics get covered in the local media like Paris Hilton in the supermarket tabloids.

I do agree it is a better environment for him at this point. If he is able to turn his reputation around and fulfill potential, he could become a huge star among local DC kids.

[2k6nats]

Haha, so they're saying that Tampa is a higher media environment than we are?

Especially through word of mouth.  Those senior citizens sure do gossip

[Nat of the Living Dead]

DIFFERENCE LIKE DAY AND NITE. THE C&P THAT WS POSTED STATED THAT YOUNG WAS BEING ATTACKED. WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DO. WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER STARTED HITTING YOU?

Aren't you the Prince of Defending a Woman's Honor?  Are you saying he should have wound up and let her have it?  Is hitting the woman really the "bigger thing" to do?  So are you advocating the beating of women when they hit first?

 

[nospinzone1]

Aren't you the Prince of Defending a Woman's Honor?  Are you saying he should have wound up and let her have it?  Is hitting the woman really the "bigger thing" to do?  So are you advocating the beating of women when they hit first?

 

i am a defender of women but there are exceptions to every rule. are you going to wimp out when you are being attacked no matter whether it is a man or a woman. what would you do, sit there and take it? I don't think so.

and furthermore, there is the example of the golfer Milkenson or whatever his name is. He is playing lousy at the present tournament because his girlfriend beat up on him and he obviously took it.

[shoeshineboy]

Are you referring to John Daly who said his wife attacked him in his sleep while he was asleep? She's now saying he attacked her.

[nospinzone1]

Are you referring to John Daly who said his wife attacked him in his sleep while he was asleep? She's now saying he attacked her.

yep, I was, thanks for correcting me....one of my senior moments or maybe the meds. if I recall correctly, this has happened before .... she has beat up on him several times.

[Dave B]

but there are exceptions to every rule.

woah woah time out

since when?

rules and laws seem pretty synonomous to me, at least in what they are trying to accomplish

how many times have you told me and others "what part of breaking the law dont you understand?"

post #3 is a gem (something about the US turning into Haiti). #5 is pretty outrageous  throw in #7. churches are involved in #26
http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,3651.0.html

see post #2 and #4 here
http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,3628.0.html

post #3 and #24 here is good
http://www.wnff.net/index.php/topic,3671.0.html

looks to me like there are just some laws or lawbreakers you dont like...

Even though I think I can do a better job of it, I'll let you explain yourself