PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[spidernat]

Of course not, but I guess we just check our freaking brains at the door and blame the manager for this.

pretty sure you've done the same crap in the past

[Slateman]

yes

It would seem stupidity is contagious. Dusty and his magic toothpicks were going to magically keep Eaton, Zimmerman, Murphy, and Strasburg healthy

[Greg_SRT]

Poor hitting has a lot to do with the revolving door lineup.
Dusty set a line up and stuck with it even as injuries occured. Martinez acts like this is little league where he needs to give everyone  enough playing time to keep the parents happy.
The players need consistency to be effective.

IMHO and no one has the balls to sit Harper but Taylor should be playing every day

No it doesn't.

They are professionals. No one in the club house is saying "if only Dave was batting Murph second" or "I wish I could just bat fifth all the time". They know why, because they aren't getting it done with RISP.

And you can bet that Dave communicates these decisions to his players. He's liked outside the WNFF for a reason.

If he didn't change the lineup and the results were the same, the talk would be why doesn't he change the lineup.

Hell, even last season these boards wanted to cry at Dusty for not batting Rendon at the top even when winning.

[PowerBoater69]

It would seem stupidity is contagious. Dusty and his magic toothpicks were going to magically keep Eaton, Zimmerman, Murphy, and Strasburg healthy

DeAza, Sanchez, Stevenson all got a lot of at bats last year because the entire outfield was hurt. Goodwin and Difo turned out to be pretty good but they were not expected to play as much as they did. The bullpen was Albers and nothing most of the year. Somehow we won 97 and all we heard was that Baker didn't know analytics because Difo was too high in the order. That freaking radio guy got in Mark Lerners head. Now we have our manager for the modern age.

[PowerBoater69]

He's liked outside the WNFF for a reason.

Because that was his role in Chicago and Tampa, he was the good cop. He's liked but not respected, wait until he has to play bad cop and the players tell him to piss off. He's Jim Zorn, a goofball, nothing more.

[bluestreak]

It would seem stupidity is contagious. Dusty and his magic toothpicks were going to magically keep Eaton, Zimmerman, Murphy, and Strasburg healthy

Am I crazy or did Turner, Harper, Taylor, Strasburg and Eaton all spend significant time on the DL last year?

[Greg_SRT]

Because that was his role in Chicago and Tampa, he was the good cop. He's liked but not respected, wait until he has to play bad cop and the players tell him to piss off. He's Jim Zorn, a goofball, nothing more.

He is liked and respected by former and current players. You maybe right since he was never "the guy". Time will tell, they could respond to him too.

[Greg_SRT]

Am I crazy or did Turner, Harper, Taylor, Strasburg and Eaton all spend significant time on the DL last year?

Yes, of course. And each got production from unlikely places.

Dusty with Goodwin, Difo, Albers, and Lind.

Dave with Difo, Stevenson, Miller, Adams, and Soto.

This year is not like last year. We had bullpen problems, but if you score enough you can soften that.

We can't score and asking a Pitching Staff to allow only 2 over nine is unrealistic. Hell, they have and we have lost anyway.

You can't sit Harper. That's career suicide for Dave. And you can't sit Soto or Eaton for MAT. Sorry MAT.

There is no mystery in the club house. They all know what the issue is. They know what the solution is. They just can't get the hits when it matters.

[Jeff in Gaithersburg]

Am I crazy or did Turner, Harper, Taylor, Strasburg and Eaton all spend significant time on the DL last year?

Stras only missed 4 starts, and by the time Bryce had the knee injury they were 69-45 and up 14 games. Wieters was healthy, Zimm was healthy and had a monster season, Rendon was healthy all year, Murphy was healthy all year, Lind stayed healthy and played a huge role, Howie played a huge role down the stretch after he was acquired, Goodwin was solid. Bench was deeper last year. Also seemed many of the significant injuries (sans Eaton being out the last 5 months) last year were staggered in different parts of the season so they didn't lose a bunch of guys at the same time, which hasn't been the case this season. Much easier to replace one guy at a time instead of 3, 4, or even 5.

[Jeff in Gaithersburg]

First, someone did get up in the fifth. He didn't enter the game, but he was warming.

dave's team has not been sloppy. Can't say that because Pitching and Defense hasn't been. And they get hits, just can't bring RISP home. Far from an entirely sloppy team.

Here is the way to tell if you theory or thoughts on issues are legit. Check what the analyst say. Ray Knight, reporters, players, coaches.

If no one outside of these boards or random blog posts think it, it ain't legit.

No one with baseball knowledge would think removing Gio before 5 would be a smart thing to do unless he's given up more than 3. Why? Because A) you can't lose a game in the fifth B) you can't run your bullpen into the ground.

Look at the player quotes, they tell you the issue is not scoring enough runs. And the issue is the lack of runs scored.

There is only on team so far this year that averages less than 3 runs allowed a game... Houston. Everyone else allows at least 3 runs a game. So when your pitching staff over 9 allow only 3 runs and you lose, it's because you didn't score enough runs.

Anyone who has some baseball knowledge won't agree with the idea that you remove a starting pitcher in the regular season before 5 if you haven't given up more than 3. Unless he has an injury.

The issue is offense. That's why June has been so bad. been shut out 7 times.

I agree with everything you said except the RISP issue. Yes, their last 4 close games since Thursday they're 2/28, but overall the RISP avg is decent. They can't get hits. They're hitting .230 with no runners on base. Excluding homers they're hitting .213 and 65% of their homers have been solo. You can score enough runs hitting .246 with RISP if you get guys on base and into scoring position often enough, which they aren't doing. Tonight for example they had 9 hits and 5 BB, left 10 runners on and only had 2 total ABs with RISP. They simply aren't advancing the guys they get on base and haven't had enough keep-the-line-moving hits.

[rileyn]

Leadership is lacking.  There is none on this team after Scherzer, but a starting pitcher really can't fill that role, much like a Goalie in hockey also cannot.  With the loss of Jayson Werth, that is where Dusty would have made his mark.  He could have filled the void and provided that steady hand, instead we have Martinez who looks like he just saw naked pictures of his grandma every game.  Martinez is lost and does not know what to do, so he just keeps repeating the same mantra, much like, "Standard Decision." 

Last year Dusty took tons of criticism for keeping Rendon at 6th in the order, but he did it because he knew all of the injured players would be coming back eventually and he wanted everybody to remain comfortable in their roles.  In contrast to that, Davey is all over the place.  I can't keep up and it reeks of grasping for lightning in a bottle. 

Boswell called it during spring training - this team was loose and sloppy.  He saw this coming, and that is on the manager.  The bullpen handling is improving now, but it was a mess the first 2 months.  Gio and Severino hate each other, Bryce looks like he just lost his best friend, Zimmerman is constantly challenging the norm, and so on.

Davey is a cheerleader.  He did what he does best during the Capitals run to the Stanley Cup and I appreciate him for that, but he is not the right guy to lead a veteran team through tough times. 

[rileyn]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23981274/alex-cora-moves-worked-better-dave-martinez-boston-red-sox-edge-washington-nationals

[Natsinpwc]

The thing that worries me most if that I think the Nats themselves are channeling the posters here at WNFF. "I'm not hitting because I'm not in the same lineup spot every day". (Btw, the guy hitting the most, Rendon, was supposed to be the most susceptible to this.  "I can't hit because Strasburg is out" "I miss my veteran manager". 

Matt Williams sucked as a manager. But the team collapsed because of the player performances in 2015. Same this year. These guys are weak willed. They fall apart under any pressure. The division races they won were not races at all. As soon as the playoffs came they collapsed. Too
Many excuse makers on the team. It's contagious. 

[PowerBoater69]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23981274/alex-cora-moves-worked-better-dave-martinez-boston-red-sox-edge-washington-nationals

Martinez gave Bradley the free pass in a rather conventional situation: to get to the pitcher with two outs. It was unconventional to issue one with Scherzer pitching, however, and he was clearly perturbed by the decision. Porcello then hit an 0-2 fastball for his first RBIs since 2009 -- and the first extra-base hit Scherzer had ever allowed to a pitcher on an 0-2 count.

Even stranger, Martinez again intentionally walked Bradley with two outs and a runner on second in the sixth and Washington trailing 3-1. Coming into the game, Scherzer had just 14 career intentional walks and never more than two in a season. Only twice had he walked the No. 8 hitter in his career, with the last time coming in 2012. So you can see why he was a little surprised at the decision -- not that he should groove an 0-2 fastball to Porcello as a result.

I agree with the article that the IBB was a mistake, but not just because you don't need to intentionally walk guys with Scherzer on the mound, but because you want to face the relatively weak 8th hitter with two outs so that you start the next inning with an easy out. Save the free passes for the top guys. Plus, Martinez walked a guy that Scherzer had a book on to face an AL pitcher with a minimal scouting report.

[Slateman]

DeAza, Sanchez, Stevenson all got a lot of at bats last year because the entire outfield was hurt. Goodwin and Difo turned out to be pretty good but they were not expected to play as much as they did. The bullpen was Albers and nothing most of the year. Somehow we won 97 and all we heard was that Baker didn't know analytics because Difo was too high in the order. That freaking radio guy got in Mark Lerners head. Now we have our manager for the modern age.

The pen was pure garbage until we traded for Doolittle and Madson.
Strasburg has already missed as much time as he did last year.
Murphy played 144 games last season. So did Zimmerman.

So Dusty got the privilege of having the most likely MVP that season for most of the season, and three guys who were also MVP candidates in the lineup for the majority of the season. Martinez gets Rendon and Soto, both of which only started hitting in June. Yea, totally should be on pace for 97 wins again

And Dusty was a failure in the playoffs. Again. Not sure why everyone wants that back so badly.

[miket14]

The thing that worries me most if that I think the Nats themselves are channeling the posters here at WNFF. "I'm not hitting because I'm not in the same lineup spot every day". (Btw, the guy hitting the most, Rendon, was supposed to be the most susceptible to this.  "I can't hit because Strasburg is out" "I miss my veteran manager". 

Matt Williams sucked as a manager. But the team collapsed because of the player performances in 2015. Same this year. These guys are weak willed. They fall apart under any pressure. The division races they won were not races at all. As soon as the playoffs came they collapsed. Too
Many excuse makers on the team. It's contagious.

What is Davey doing to help this team? I see him making mistakes so often.

[Slateman]

What is Davey doing to help this team? I see him making mistakes so often.

What mistakes?

[rileyn]

What mistakes?

We can debate the mistakes all day long.  I just copied a link from last nights game about 3 replies up from ESPN, about how Cora outmanaged Martinez last night.  You either didn't read it, or don't agree with it.  Either way, we can go back and forth and not change each others minds.  I would also direct you to read Tom Boswells Live Chat Wrap this week in The Post.  Again, these are non-WNFF members pointing these things out.

Regarding Dusty, I'm not saying he is the answer, but hiring a rookie manager that got passed over several times is really looking like a bad move.  He can talk all he wants about great effort and "playing with intensity" last night (say what????), but this is a results-based business and right now we are sinking.

[Slateman]

We can debate the mistakes all day long.  I just copied a link from last nights game about 3 replies up from ESPN, about how Cora outmanaged Martinez last night.  You either didn't read it, or don't agree with it.  Either way, we can go back and forth and not change each others minds.  I would also direct you to read Tom Boswells Live Chat Wrap this week in The Post.  Again, these are non-WNFF members pointing these things out.

Regarding Dusty, I'm not saying he is the answer, but hiring a rookie manager that got passed over several times is really looking like a bad move.  He can talk all he wants about great effort and "playing with intensity" last night (say what????), but this is a results-based business and right now we are sinking.

ESPN wouldn't know baseball if they fell out of a plane into a glove factory

First, Nationals manager Dave Martinez intentionally walked Jackie Bradley Jr. with two outs in the second inning, runners on second and third and Max Scherzer on the mound. Red Sox pitcher Rick Porcello followed with a bases-clearing double over the head of left fielder Juan Soto.

Literally most teams in the NL would do this. freaking Scherzer grooved a goddamned 0-2 fastball to Porcello. How exactly is this on Martinez? What move did Cora makes that was better here?

Red Sox skipper Alex Cora later called on closer Craig Kimbrel for a four-out save, bringing him in for Joe Kelly after a two-out walk to Mark Reynolds (and a home run earlier in the inning by Bryce Harper).

And? If the Red Sox had Kelvin Herrera, they wouldn't have called out Kimbrel in the 8th. Like, it's nice that Cora is getting accolades for bringing in his closer, but it was a move out of desperation, not any kind of analytical reasoning.

Even stranger, Martinez again intentionally walked Bradley with two outs and a runner on second in the sixth and Washington trailing 3-1. Coming into the game, Scherzer had just 14 career intentional walks and never more than two in a season. Only twice had he walked the No. 8 hitter in his career, with the last time coming in 2012. So you can see why he was a little surprised at the decision -- not that he should groove an 0-2 fastball to Porcello as a result.

Wait .... even when Martinez' moves work, he was outmanaged by Cora?


ESPN is freaking dumb. Last night came down to two bad pitches. That's it. No more, no less.

[PowerBoater69]

Bradley had zero IBBs this season before Martinez gave him two yesterday. The best pitcher in the world on the mound and Martinez is giving free passes to a guy with a 624 OPS. He needs to go.

[Natsinpwc]

Bradley had zero IBBs this season before Martinez gave him two yesterday. The best pitcher in the world on the mound and Martinez is giving free passes to a guy with a 624 OPS. He needs to go.

Pitchers don't bat in AL games. Doh.

[Natsinpwc]

ESPN wouldn't know baseball if they fell out of a plane into a glove factory

Literally most teams in the NL would do this. freaking Scherzer grooved a goddamned 0-2 fastball to Porcello. How exactly is this on Martinez? What move did Cora makes that was better here?

And? If the Red Sox had Kelvin Herrera, they wouldn't have called out Kimbrel in the 8th. Like, it's nice that Cora is getting accolades for bringing in his closer, but it was a move out of desperation, not any kind of analytical reasoning.

Wait .... even when Martinez' moves work, he was outmanaged by Cora?


ESPN is freaking dumb. Last night came down to two bad pitches. That's it. No more, no less.

It was a dumb article.

[PowerBoater69]

Pitchers don't bat in AL games. Doh.

Quoted

[Natsinpwc]

What is Davey doing to help this team? I see him making mistakes so often.

Why do they need Davey to help them?  Be professionals and hit the ball.

[Natsinpwc]

Quoted

Bradley bats ninth in AL games. Who would intentionally walk him to get to the lead off guy?  It's ok to debate the move but such a dumb article citing that stat. Max should not have thrown a hissy fit and just struck the guy out bid Strasburg did what Max did the board would be crucifying him.