PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[aspenbubba]

Gotta wonder if Werth would have already asked him at what point he thought he lost the clubhouse...

Did he really ask him that or is it conjecture?

[varoadking]

Did he really ask him that or is it conjecture?

I don't know...but it's a good story anyway...

[nfotiu]

I like a lot about Rizzo, but I'm starting to think he kind of sucks at hiring managers.  Williams and Martinez are both looking like pretty awful and out of touch choices. 

[UMDNats]

They are FA and not under contract. There is no "haul" of ready for prime time prospects but rather draft choices. If you are referring to money freed up then do we go after FA's? And , that is contrary to Rizzo stated philosophy of "filling -in".

Aroldis Chapman, a closer that was pending FA, got 3 good prospects, one of which was Gleyber Torres. Sorry, but Harper wouldn't get us a haul at the deadline? If we're below .500 at the deadline we need to make the right decision for our franchise's future. It's the only way to salvage this season.

[nfotiu]

Aroldis Chapman, a closer that was pending FA, got 3 good prospects, one of which was Gleyber Torres. Sorry, but Harper wouldn't get us a haul at the deadline? If we're below .500 at the deadline we need to make the right decision for our franchise's future. It's the only way to salvage this season.

There are usually a lot more teams looking for a relief pitcher rental at the deadline than there are looking for a position player.  It's not that common that a contending team is looking for a slugging corner outfielder as their missing piece to win playoff games, unless they have a key guy hurt.  He'd get something, but probably less than a closer as a rental.

[mdnatsfan]

Serious Question:

Can they rehire Dusty after they can this guy?

[mitlen]

I like a lot about Rizzo, but I'm starting to think he kind of sucks at hiring managers.  Williams and Martinez are both looking like pretty awful and out of touch choices. 

Been discussed elsewhere but how much was Rizzo's budget/terms dictated from above?    In the end, Rizzo is an employee.

[NatsAllThe Way]

Serious Question:

Can they rehire Dusty after they can this guy?

Sure, but how freakin' embarrassing would that be?

[mitlen]

Sure, but how freakin' embarrassing would that be?

Can't be any worse than finishin' 2018 behind the Barves.     

[nfotiu]

Been discussed elsewhere but how much was Rizzo's budget/terms dictated from above?    In the end, Rizzo is an employee.

Maybe the better criticism is that if you are going to fire someone like Dusty, then keep in mind that you probably aren't going to have the means to hire someone better.

[mitlen]

Maybe the better criticism is that if you are going to fire someone like Dusty, then keep in mind that you probably aren't going to have the means to hire someone better.

I'm gonna refrain from referencing the old "running a mall" comment.

[NatsAllThe Way]

The Nats led the league in OPS last year, why replace the hitting coach? Stupidity at the ownership level.

Maybe they thought Long was going to make Murphy a .500 hitter.  Well maybe he would've, it's beginning to sound like we'll never know.

[dcpatti]

I'm not going to get the pitchforks out until I see if things start getting back on track once at least one of these core offense guys comes back.  Looking at the SportTrac injuy trackers for last year, there's a couple of interesting points:

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/disabled-list/2017/washington-nationals/ <-- that's all the DL stints. At this point in 2017, Eaton hadn't been injured yet, Trea had a hammy issue and did a short stint and came back, and Stephen Drew was starting a long DL stint. Losing 10-15 days of Trea and 6 weeks of Stephen Drew isn't anything compared to losing basically half your offense for a couple of weeks and counting.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/disabled-list/2017/cumulative-position/washington-nationals/ <-- sorted by position, while there are definitely some big blows, a lot of the injuries were to the replacements for the already-injured players.  Last year it seemed like left field was a weird ancient Indian burial ground whose protective spirit had been awakened and was now hungry for blood.  So, yes, a lot of guys went on the DL, but when some of them are Ryan Raburn, Chris Heisey and Stephen Drew, the impact is not as extreme.

And while Dusty did a great job of steering guys around the revolving left field door last year, that's not any real guarantee that he'd be doing any better right now with the current injuries.   The closest 2017 got to the current level of injury to key offensive players was the last half of August into September, when Bryce, Trea and Jayson were all on the DL.  The Bryce-Trea-Jayson collective is not the same offensive powerhouse that Eaton-Murphy-Rendon are, plus this coincided with Difo's super hot streak, so we were still getting .313BA out of the shortstop position and we were able to go something like 12-8 during that stretch (although 6 or so of those games were against the 2017 LOLMets and the Almost LOLMarlins).

Time will tell how much of the current nosedive is on Davey and how much is on the half-AAA lineup we're trotting out there.

All that said... I think Davey is still learning the subtle art of bullpen management and we should know in the next couple of weeks if he's learning from his mistakes or not. I do think he's made some bad decisions that have cost a few games, but if he learns from them and does better going forward, time will tell.

[mitlen]

All that said... I think Davey is still learning the subtle art of bullpen management and we should know in the next couple of weeks if he's learning from his mistakes or not. I do think he's made some bad decisions that have cost a few games, but if he learns from them and does better going forward, time will tell.

How good/important are the bench and pitching coaches in Dave's learning bullpen management?

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Rusty fans slept through the postseason, just like Rusty himself.

[NatsAllThe Way]

Rusty fans slept through the postseason, just like Rusty himself.

Postseason is a pipe dream now.

[dcpatti]

How good/important are the bench and pitching coaches in Dave's learning bullpen management?

I think the pitching coach is huge here; the bench coach, not so much. I think they are still in that “getting to know you” phase with the starters, and as a result, they’re too quick with the hook. Which creates too much work for the bullpen.  I think the loss of Maddux was huge. Partially because he’s great, and partially because he knows our staff.

[mitlen]

I think the pitching coach is huge here; the bench coach, not so much. I think they are still in that “getting to know you” phase with the starters, and as a result, they’re too quick with the hook. Which creates too much work for the bullpen.  I think the loss of Maddux was huge. Partially because he’s great, and partially because he knows our staff.

Thanks dcpatti

[PowerBoater69]

Can't be any worse than finishin' 2018 behind the Barves.     

True, but they'll blame the lost season on injuries, bringing back Baker would mean admitting they made a mistake.

[Ray D]

Did he really ask him that or is it conjecture?

He was quoted by a credible source (I can't remember who).

[aspenbubba]

I think the pitching coach is huge here; the bench coach, not so much. I think they are still in that “getting to know you” phase with the starters, and as a result, they’re too quick with the hook. Which creates too much work for the bullpen.  I think the loss of Maddux was huge. Partially because he’s great, and partially because he knows our staff.

I've posted it before but the loss of Maddux was grater than Albers and Lind (who is still available) and may have been off set by the re-signing of Kendricks and Kintzler (not withstanding his several melt downs). The retaining of Hendley twice still baffles me. BTW, thank you for being a part of the board and providing such great insight and research.

[tzinc]

the problem is they would never bring back Baker they would like like fools for firing him just like they will stick with the camel jockey

you should not be learning how to manage a BP when you are an MLB manager FFS you should know how to do that

they are already getting the injury excuse ready for this year lol the reality is they had injuries last year and NO BP for half a season

[Optics]

Wasn't Alex Cora one of our top choices? Man he's killing it in Boston. But its early yet. Its hard to blame Davey when Rendon, Eaton, and Murphy are hurt and guys who are healthy(Harper, Zimm)simply aren't hitting.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Postseason is a pipe dream now.

Good.  The illusion is shattered.

[dcpatti]

I've posted it before but the loss of Maddux was grater than Albers and Lind (who is still available) and may have been off set by the re-signing of Kendricks and Kintzler (not withstanding his several melt downs). The retaining of Hendley twice still baffles me.

Lind is back in the Yankees farm but I still don't understand why we didn't keep him (and I'm about 80% sure we didn't keep him, although some of the reports I read were that he'd been the one to decline the option). 

Letting the new manager pick his coaches is customary but I think the Nats shoulda said "screw tradition" and locked Maddux up. It's no surprise he had an offer in hand from another club within about 24 hours. Liliquist has some big shoes to fill. As for Hendley, there is something to be said for continuity, and at least there is some holdover from prior years, other than Octavio the bullpen catcher.

BTW, thank you for being a part of the board and providing such great insight and research.

you're welcome. I love the nerdy facty side of baseball and it's nice to have an outlet for that (and also nice to get called something other than, well, you've seen the last couple of weeks here....)