PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[UMDNats]

Casey Stengel went 71-81 in his first season and had one winning season in his career before joining the stacked freaking Yankees.

Players matter a hell of a lot more than the manager.

[blue911]

Casey Stengel went 71-81 in his first season and had one winning season in his career before joining the stacked freaking Yankees.

Players matter a hell of a lot more than the manager.

I played for Casey before and after he was a genius  - Warren Spahn.

Stengel managed the Boston Braves and the Mets with Spahn.

Dusty is a fine regular season manager. But he's tactically overmatched in the playoffs.

[Smithian]

Casey Stengel went 71-81 in his first season and had one winning season in his career before joining the stacked freaking Yankees.

Players matter a hell of a lot more than the manager.

Correct.

[mitlen]

I played for Casey before and after he was a genius  - Warren Spahn.

   

[welch]

Dusty is a fine regular season manager. But he's tactically overmatched in the playoffs.

It's not a question of extending Dusty or wondering if Dusty could have won the 2017 playoffs. Compare Dusty to dave. Dusty had these players winning 95 games a season. dave has them bumping along at .500.

[bluestreak]

It's not a question of extending Dusty or wondering if Dusty could have won the 2017 playoffs. Compare Dusty to dave. Dusty had these players winning 95 games a season. dave has them bumping along at .500.

It’s unclear to me why we think that someone who isn’t winning in the regular season is somehow going to magically gain managerial savvy in the playoffs.

[bluestreak]

Casey Stengel went 71-81 in his first season and had one winning season in his career before joining the stacked freaking Yankees.

Players matter a hell of a lot more than the manager.

Dave can’t win with the stacked freaking Nationals. A team that won 97 games last year.

[UMDNats]

I think it's pretty clear this roster isn't as "stacked" as we all thought. We bet the season on everyone repeating their amazing 2017 seasons. Wasn't gonna happen.

I'm just saying, judging Martinez on a half-season of work is silly. I am skeptical of him and think he definitely deserves blame for our situation, but my counter to that is if Harper had an OPS 30 points higher we'd be in first place.

[Natsinpwc]

It's not a question of extending Dusty or wondering if Dusty could have won the 2017 playoffs. Compare Dusty to dave. Dusty had these players winning 95 games a season. dave has them bumping along at .500.

Managers don't make that much of difference. If you think this is a 95 win club you are sadly misled. Harper has been way off. And others.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I think it's pretty clear this roster isn't as "stacked" as we all thought. We bet the season on everyone repeating their amazing 2017 seasons. Wasn't gonna happen.

I'm just saying, judging Martinez on a half-season of work is silly. I am skeptical of him and think he definitely deserves blame for our situation, but my counter to that is if Harper had an OPS 30 points higher we'd be in first place.

There's all this hand-wringing about Harper, and he definitely needs to be producing a lot more than he is, but he's far from the biggest or the only problem with this team.

CF is weak, middle infield is lousy, and the catcher position is a black hole.  That's half of the regular line-up that can't meaningfully produce.  This too is not really a Davey-specific problem.  Middle infield is a combination of injuries and regression, CF is just plain regression, and C was a predictable crapshow that our GM didn't fix.  Some of the regression might be blamed on Davey, some falls on the rest of the coaching staff.  Everything else is a front office problem.  Ultimately, in every case, the buck should stop with Rizzo.  He put together this crap sandwich.  What's galling is that the problems this season (part of the lineup and the bullpen) have been ongoing problems throughout this decade for which he's continually failed to find fixes.

[van lingle mungo]

Managers don't make that much of difference.

No, of course not. In your world, guys like Leyland, Billy Martin, Sparky Anderson, Earl Weaver, and dozens of others didn't mean crap, right? BS. If a manager has everybody on board and they buy into his methods and his motivations and his disciplines, he can make all the difference in the world. Davie Martinez isn't even in the same hemisphere as the aforementioned.

[skippy1999]

No, of course not. In your world, guys like Leyland, Billy Martin, Sparky Anderson, Earl Weaver, and dozens of others didn't mean crap, right? BS. If a manager has everybody on board and they buy into his methods and his motivations and his disciplines, he can make all the difference in the world. Davie Martinez isn't even in the same hemisphere as the aforementioned.

 I mean, neither is that talking box of rocks Ned Yost yet he still won a World Series. 

[Natsinpwc]

No, of course not. In your world, guys like Leyland, Billy Martin, Sparky Anderson, Earl Weaver, and dozens of others didn't mean crap, right? BS. If a manager has everybody on board and they buy into his methods and his motivations and his disciplines, he can make all the difference in the world. Davie Martinez isn't even in the same hemisphere as the aforementioned.

A manager cannot make a 81 win team into a 97 win team--it's just an excuse for the players who are having bad seasons.  Charlie Manuel won a World Series.  So did the guy in KC everybody thinks is a terrible manager.  The players have underperformed.  None of those guys you mentioned is walking through the door.  The Lerners think you don't need to pay much for a manager. 

[Ray D]

Dave can’t win with the stacked freaking Nationals. A team that won 97 games last year.

It's not just the 96 win season.  95 the previous year, also with Dusty. That, after 86 with Matt. Roughly the same team all four years.

[Greg_SRT]

Lets be honest, we are using the Manager as a scapegoat. The fans and certain players.

Did you know that in both NLDS 2016 and 2017 we lost those 5 game series, while outscoring our opponents for the series? Sound familiar?

Nothing the 2018 Nationals have shown us is very different from previous years.

This year, we had the middle of our order off the field for the majority of the year so far. Since they've been back, we've been a better offensive team. That's not to say there weren't some guys who stepped up to fill the spot. They just couldn't do it full time.

Stras goes done in June. Truth is, at least in my opinion, I thought he showed he was dealing with injury since pitching @ Arizona. But I haven't seen that confirmed. Stras history has shown us that he gets on the DL because he pitches threw issues and then causes more problems. Exactly why I don't understand the belief he is weak, he goes out there when he's clearly dealing with issues.

But I bring up Stras because when he went down, the team needed Gio and Tanner to step it up. They did the opposite. And the JH went down. For about a month we had Max, then Gio and Tanner, and 2 rookies.

We only seemed to have a good chance at winning 1 of every 5 games. SP just wasn't getting it done.

We've seen in the past, all those game 5's. Games that decide series. Opportunities for players to step up. This team seems to fall back and look at their feet.

Whether Dave turns out to be a good manager or not, isn't relevant in 2018 imo. He isn't doing a legendary job, but he isn't costing this team wins.

Player performance has accounted for 100% of the losses so far. When Dave accounts for one, then fine. But it hasn't happened yet.

[bluestreak]

You’ve gotta work for the Nats, right?

[Greg_SRT]

You’ve gotta work for the Nats, right?

To put accountability on players? No. In fact that seems to be anti Nationals thinking for the most part. If they thought like that, Dusty would probably still be around.

[Natsinpwc]

To put accountability on players? No. In fact that seems to be anti Nationals thinking for the most part. If they thought like that, Dusty would probably still be around.

The core of the team has never produced in pressure situations. Maybe this August and September they will change that.

Martinez bears responsibility also. He is the skipper.  Also he makes some strange decisions. If the team does not produce early next year he will be gone.  That's just the way it is. You can't fire the whole team.

The whole Harper situation was a bad look this year. Once he got in a slump it just got worse as he pressed more. After no trade he looks better at the plate.

[Greg_SRT]

The core of the team has never produced in pressure situations. Maybe this August and September they will change that.

Martinez bears responsibility also. He is the skipper.  Also he makes some strange decisions. If the team does not produce early next year he will be gone.  That's just the way it is. You can't fire the whole team.

The whole Harper situation was a bad look this year. Once he got in a slump it just got worse as he pressed more. After no trade he looks better at the plate.

Of course I believe Dave and Coaches deserve some responsibility. I'm just not where many others are in terms of how much.

These issues were present before Dusty arrived. Many of the same players.

[Natsinpwc]

Of course I believe Dave and Coaches deserve some responsibility. I'm just not where many others are in terms of how much.

These issues were present before Dusty arrived. Many of the same players.

Agree.

Blame meter: 

25% Manager and coaches
25% Rizzo
50% Players.

[Natsinpwc]

You’ve gotta work for the Nats, right?

He's Mike Rizzo. Thought you knew that.

[Greg_SRT]

He's Mike Rizzo. Thought you knew that.

I would have thought Dave since I ramble and no one understands

[JCA-CrystalCity]

You’ve gotta work for the Nats, right?

then so do I because I agree with everything he said.  This time, not all the time.  And I do think Dusty did a terrific job last year in the regular season before becoming post-season Dusty .

[bluestreak]

then so do I because I agree with everything he said.  This time, not all the time.  And I do think Dusty did a terrific job last year in the regular season before becoming post-season Dusty .

I was kinda joking. But he has been very pro-player until the knoves came out for Dave, then he become pro Dave

But what do I know..

[Natsinpwc]

I would have thought Dave since I ramble and no one understands

Ok. lil 'd you are then.