Author Topic: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be..... (Read 194491 times)

varoadking · « **Reply #2200 on:** February 17, 2019, 03:44:20 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on February 17, 2019, 03:13:09 pm

edit - eh whatever, no point in engaging

You think MLB players give a crap about MiLB players?

The MLB has a collective bargaining agreement. If the MLB players were more concerned with the distribution of money than they were with days off, and beer and chicken in the clubhouse, things might be different...

UMDNats · « **Reply #2201 on:** February 17, 2019, 03:49:41 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 03:44:20 pm

You think MLB players give a crap about MiLB players?

The MLB has a collective bargaining agreement. If the MLB players were more concerned with the distribution of money than they were with days off, and beer and chicken in the clubhouse, things might be different...

The link I shared - if you even opened it - had Adam Wainwright talking about his days as a minor leaguer and how after calculating everything he made roughly $2/hour, and how the problems start there and work their way up the ladder to the Harper level.

But I'm sure you read his posts and already knew that and still hold the mindfact that MLB players don't give a crap about the MiLB. Enough to make them the priority in CBA talks? Of course not. But it doesn't take a PhD to see that the baseball economy has issues that can begin at the minor league level. MLB players care about how owners spend their money on MLB players first and foremost but the discussion extends down to MiLB.

Also my deleted edit was more about how players work their asses off for years to get where they are but fans like you ignore that and think they just show up and say, "give me millions!"

You seem to think players are all greedy jerks so not sure what you enjoy about posting in this thread.

varoadking · « **Reply #2202 on:** February 17, 2019, 03:51:02 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on February 17, 2019, 03:49:41 pm

The link I shared - if you even opened it - had Adam Wainwright talking about his days as a minor leaguer and how after calculating everything he made roughly $2/hour, and how the problems start there and work their way up the ladder to the Harper level.

But I'm sure you read his posts and already knew that.

So what are they doing about it? Nothing...except whine...

Does he want to lower the MLB payrolls so MiLB players get more money? No? Just need to take more from the greedy Owners...

Find me jsut ONE MiLB player that would rather have a real job. Good luck...

UMDNats · « **Reply #2203 on:** February 17, 2019, 03:56:24 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 03:51:02 pm

So what are they doing about it? Nothing...except whine...

What else can they do? They can't change anything until the next CBA but they're making their voice heard now so they can figure it out by the next CBA. It's a free country they can say whatever they want. No one is saying owners should change their entire business model by opening day. They have to make their voices heard now because last offseason the market was a disaster and this year with 2 top 10 players the offseason has been ice cold. That's a game-changing development that warrants discussion.

The players are free to nag and moan but they have to be willing to make big strides in the next CBA because the MLBPA has spent the last 20 years freaking it up and not realizing teams are valuing players different. Regardless, players speaking up now just sets the table for the next CBA discussion because the more the players are united they more they can control negotiations.

varoadking · « **Reply #2204 on:** February 17, 2019, 03:59:02 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on February 17, 2019, 03:56:24 pm

What else can they do? They can't change anything until the next CBA but they're making their voice heard now so they can figure it out by the next CBA. It's a free country they can say whatever they want. No one is saying owners should change their entire business model by opening day. They have to make their voices heard now because last offseason the market was a disaster and this year with 2 top 10 players the offseason has been ice cold. That's a game-changing development that warrants discussion.

Hasn't this been going on for...like forever? You actually think they are going to bring up MiLB player salaries as a sticking point in the MLB collective bargaining agreement?

varoadking · « **Reply #2205 on:** February 17, 2019, 03:59:40 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on February 17, 2019, 03:56:24 pm

The players are free to nag and moan but they have to be willing to make big strides in the next CBA because the MLBPA has spent the last 20 years freaking it up.

With the player's blessing...

UMDNats · « **Reply #2206 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:06:59 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 03:59:02 pm

Hasn't this been going on for...like forever? You actually think they are going to bring up MiLB player salaries as a sticking point in the MLB collective bargaining agreement?

Sticking point? No, because there's major issues at the MLB level that have to be addressed. But I think there will be small concessions like MiLB teams paying for players' rent or paying players in spring training. Fans have no idea what life is like for the average minor leaguer and claim they're all just dumb jocks who are greedy and don't deserve to even be paid minimum wage.

As a personal anecdote I worked with a player from the DR - a team's #2 overall prospect, top-100 - a few years ago. He used his 100k signing bonus at 16 as a nest egg for his wife and young son, and sent most of his salary - not a lot, if he had any left over after his costs - back home. He lived in an unfurnished 2 bedroom apartment with 5 other players who all had mattresses out anywhere they could put them. They split rice and beans for meals when they weren't at the ballpark. They had no personal spending money, most of the players had small signing bonuses that can't support them. The fanciest thing anyone owned was a smartphone that they shared.

And this was with an organization that overall tried to treat minor leaguers decently. I'm not saying these guys need to be given a ton of cash but the payments they get for the hours they work - especially in spring training, when they're unpaid - is out of whack. And then at the major league level players aren't being paid when they have a chance to get their slice. It is all a mindset of "players aren't worth what they are paid" from low-A to Bryce Harper.

Players don't forget that and there are louder than ever voices for teams to make some small changes. It's not going to drive discussions but I think it will come up. If I had to bet I think the CBA discussions will include payment for all spring training players and some minor league concessions.

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 03:59:40 pm

With the player's blessing...

Yes, the players deserve blame.

tomterp · « **Reply #2207 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:08:12 pm »

Quote from: skippy1999 on February 17, 2019, 03:35:32 pm

I think it’s really the ginormous contracts in terms of years that generally don’t pan out that people resent. If Bryce signed a 5 year $150 mil contract I don’t think people would be against that, but I don’t think fans want their teams to offer those huge-year contracts anymore.

You're probably right but if it were presented in context the opinions might shift. By in context, meaning if the teams no longer offer the huge contracts, then the savings will be pocketed by the owners instead. Would fans still want restraint on salaries?

Seems to me that fans' ire is focused on two things - one, jealousy that players can make more in a season than many workers make in a lifetime, and two, that they perceive that increased player wages are responsible for driving ticket and concession prices ever higher, which is simply not the case.

varoadking · « **Reply #2208 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:15:42 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on February 17, 2019, 04:06:59 pm

Sticking point? No, because there's major issues at the MLB level that have to be addressed. But I think there will be small concessions like MiLB teams paying for players' rent or paying players in spring training. Fans have no idea what life is like for the average minor leaguer and claim they're all just dumb jocks who are greedy and don't deserve to even be paid minimum wage.

As a personal anecdote I worked with a player from the DR - a team's #2 overall prospect, top-100 - a few years ago. He used his 100k signing bonus at 16 as a nest egg for his wife and young son, and sent most of his salary - not a lot, if he had any left over after his costs - back home. He lived in an unfurnished 2 bedroom apartment with 5 other players who all had mattresses out anywhere they could put them. They split rice and beans for meals when they weren't at the ballpark. They had no personal spending money, most of the players had small signing bonuses that can't support them. The fanciest thing anyone owned was a smartphone that they shared. And this was with an organization that overall tried to treat minor leaguers decently.

Players don't forget that and there are louder than ever voices for teams to make some small changes. It's not going to drive discussions but I think it will come up.

This is a terrible example of how MiLB players are abused...

UMDNats · « **Reply #2209 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:16:21 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 04:15:42 pm

This is a terrible example of how MiLB players are abused...

How so? They live in ridiculous conditions, can't afford anything decent, work 15 hours a day for little money, 3-4 days off a month... He was one of the lucky ones with a decent signing bonus and he STILL had crappy conditions. None of his roomates had signing bonuses more than 50k or so. FWIW he (or his roommates) never naged and said he was just happy to be playing baseball. Kid was awesome, he taught himself english.

I mean I don't even know why I'm arguing with you, you clearly think all baseball players are overpaid. Nothing I could say could convince you that even one player has had a difficult time in the sport. I'm not gonna waste my time making long posts just for you to respond with a snarky gif or to say my anecdote is bullcrap. Have a nice day.

varoadking · « **Reply #2210 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:18:00 pm »

Quote from: tomterp on February 17, 2019, 04:08:12 pm

You're probably right but if it were presented in context the opinions might shift. By in context, meaning if the teams no longer offer the huge contracts, then the savings will be pocketed by the owners instead. Would fans still want restraint on salaries?

Seems to me that fans' ire is focused on two things - one, jealousy that players can make more in a season than many workers make in a lifetime, and two, that they perceive that increased player wages are responsible for driving ticket and concession prices ever higher, which is simply not the case.

I personally don't care what they make...I'd sooner not even know. What pisses me off is all the whining about how they're mistreated. Don't like the conditions...move on to greener pastures. It's what you would do...I know I would...

varoadking · « **Reply #2211 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:21:05 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on February 17, 2019, 04:16:21 pm

How so? They live in ridiculous conditions, can't afford anything decent, work 15 hours a day for little money, 3-4 days off a month...

I mean I don't even know why I'm arguing with you, you clearly think all baseball players are overpaid. Nothing I could say could convince you that even one player has had a difficult time in the sport. I'm not gonna waste my time making long posts just for you to respond with a snarky gif or to say my anecdote is bullcrap. Have a nice day.

So this kid that knocked a chick up at 16, has a kid, got 100 large to use as a nest egg, sends money home, and plays baseball to make that money is someone we're supposed to feel sorry for? We've got members of our Armed Forces that would love to be in his shoes...

What would he be doing without baseball?

UMDNats · « **Reply #2212 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:24:42 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 04:21:05 pm

So this kid that knocked a chick up at 16, has a kid, got 100 large to use as a nest egg, sends money home, and plays baseball to make that money is someone we're supposed to feel sorry for? We've got members of our Armed Forces that would love to be in his shoes...

What would he be doing without baseball?

He's one of the best 500-600 people in the world at his profession and doesn't get paid minimum wage in an industry that has over $5 billion in revenue. I'm not saying feel sorry for anyone, I'm saying that's messed up and raises some eyebrows. He's one of the few lucky ones to get a good signing bonus that can change his life. 99% ain't so lucky and that's the point.

That's the last thing I'll say about it. Hope Harper signs today or tomorrow so we can finally talk about the Nationals and end this argument. Maybe the Nats will surprise us with a Rendon extension - but maybe we can all argue if he deserves the contract (

)

DCFan · « **Reply #2213 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:30:09 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 04:21:05 pm

What would he be doing without baseball?

He’d be on a caravan headed to Texas if not here already.

stanleycaps98 · « **Reply #2214 on:** February 17, 2019, 04:55:25 pm »

Caravan by boat to Texas? That seems circuitous.

Count Walewski · « **Reply #2215 on:** February 17, 2019, 05:14:20 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 03:59:02 pm

Hasn't this been going on for...like forever? You actually think they are going to bring up MiLB player salaries as a sticking point in the MLB collective bargaining agreement?

I don't know what is in MLB player's heads as they head into the next CBA negotiation. What I do know is that if MLB players do care about MiLB players, you definitely couldn't tell from the last CBA.

DCFan · « **Reply #2216 on:** February 17, 2019, 05:21:30 pm »

Quote from: Count Walewski on February 17, 2019, 05:14:20 pm

I don't know what is in MLB player's heads as they head into the next CBA negotiation. What I do know is that if MLB players do care about MiLB players, you definitely couldn't tell from the last CBA.

Going into the next CBA the MLB players will have the disappearing huge free agent paydays on their minds not the plight of Latin minor leaguers.

Upper Level Dad · « **Reply #2217 on:** February 17, 2019, 06:28:46 pm »

I think the sticking points will be the number of years players can be optioned to the minors and MLB service time to free agency.

I can see them keeping early salaries the same if they cut the time for team control.

Senatorswin · « **Reply #2218 on:** February 17, 2019, 06:35:43 pm »

I don't begrudge players who make big bucks and I don't blame them for trying to get it. What I don't like is when players and agents start complaining and accusing when the owners don't pay the salaries and years the players are asking. All 30 teams decide what is the best thing to do for their franchise. If they don't think it's best to pay a salary a player wants they shouldn't be criticized.

NatNasty · « **Reply #2219 on:** February 17, 2019, 06:46:04 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on February 17, 2019, 04:21:05 pm

What would he be doing without baseball?

Knocking up more chicks?

Nick the Pig · « **Reply #2220 on:** February 17, 2019, 06:51:24 pm »

Quote from: NatNasty on February 17, 2019, 06:46:04 pm

Knocking up more chicks?

Chicks are extremely not picky these days...

Baseball is Life · « **Reply #2221 on:** February 17, 2019, 06:56:09 pm »

Quote from: tomterp on February 17, 2019, 04:08:12 pm

Seems to me that fans' ire is focused on two things - one, jealousy that players can make more in a season than many workers make in a lifetime, and two, that they perceive that increased player wages are responsible for driving ticket and concession prices ever higher, which is simply not the case.

This. Again, the market is the market. If you are a baseball fan and are always nagging about this, then shut the eff up and stop going to games. Vote with your wallet if you have such heartburn about the money players make.

Baseball is Life · « **Reply #2222 on:** February 17, 2019, 06:57:56 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on February 17, 2019, 04:16:21 pm

I mean I don't even know why I'm arguing with you, you clearly think all baseball players are overpaid. Nothing I could say could convince you that even one player has had a difficult time in the sport. I'm not gonna waste my time making long posts just for you to respond with a snarky gif or to say my anecdote is bullcrap. Have a nice day.

Should have listened to me and saved yourself a ton of keystrokes.

Baseball is Life · « **Reply #2223 on:** February 17, 2019, 07:01:36 pm »

Quote from: Senatorswin on February 17, 2019, 06:35:43 pm

I don't begrudge players who make big bucks and I don't blame them for trying to get it. What I don't like is when players and agents start complaining and accusing when the owners don't pay the salaries and years the players are asking. All 30 teams decide what is the best thing to do for their franchise. If they don't think it's best to pay a salary a player wants they shouldn't be criticized.

It's more complicated than that. It's could be construed as collusion to suppress wages and it's illegal under anti-trust laws.

UMDNats · « **Reply #2224 on:** February 17, 2019, 07:52:07 pm »

I don't buy the collusion arguments. Teams act the same because it's a copycat league and at this point everyone has the same analytics data mostly

Poll

Updated - who does Harper sign with?

Author Topic: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be..... (Read 194491 times)