Author Topic: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond  (Read 152792 times)

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Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #375 on: May 21, 2018, 05:04:51 pm »
None of the others took Drew Storen...

Your move...  ;)
At least Storen made the Major Leagues and was a good reliever for a while. 7 players drafted ahead of Trout, including 3 in the top 5 picks, didn't even do that.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #376 on: May 21, 2018, 05:14:17 pm »
Are we really talking about what we could get for Harper, have you all just completely given up? Maybe we should at least wait to see how Soto performs, we could be ruining him right now.

Welcome to WNFF.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #377 on: May 21, 2018, 05:24:27 pm »
Trading Harper would be absurd from a baseball perspective and from a public relations perspective. It amazes me how often it comes up. It’s even more ridiculous than the people who wanted to cut down the cherry trees in the park for All-Star seating.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #378 on: May 21, 2018, 05:30:20 pm »
Trading Harper would be absurd from a baseball perspective and from a public relations perspective. It amazes me how often it comes up. It’s even more ridiculous than the people who wanted to cut down the cherry trees in the park for All-Star seating.

Say we're 10 games out on July 30th. Why would you keep him?

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #379 on: May 21, 2018, 05:31:35 pm »
Say we're 10 games out on July 30th. Why would you keep him?
10 game leads have been overcome that late in the season before, even recently. If the Nats are just getting healthy at that time, I'd keep him to try make a run. I'd probably buy rather than sell in that situation.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #380 on: May 21, 2018, 05:43:44 pm »
10 game leads have been overcome that late in the season before, even recently. If the Nats are just getting healthy at that time, I'd keep him to try make a run. I'd probably buy rather than sell in that situation.

i guess it depends on the health of the team. if we're in 3rd place and 10 games out at the deadline i probably deal everyone i can.

Offline catocony

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #381 on: May 21, 2018, 05:50:32 pm »
Normally if you're 10 out at the end of July, you think about selling. However, I'm not assuming that the Braves current momentum is going to continue.  Rizzo looks like a fool if he starts trading away guys and suddenly the Braves start dropping games in bunches.  That tends to happen to teams that come out of nowhere.  They have a sequence of low-percentage events that all hit at the same time, and they look great for a couple of months.  My personal experience is the Nats in 2005 and the Orioles in 2002.  Remember that year for the O's?  They were 63-63, looking at the first potential stretch run in five years and with a non-potent lineup.  They finished on a 4-32 run. 

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #382 on: May 21, 2018, 08:01:13 pm »
Touche. However, we needed a closer at the time and he was highest ranked. He wasn't that terrible prior to the playoffs breaking him mentally.

Nice to see we draft for need

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #383 on: May 21, 2018, 09:19:50 pm »
Harper is looking a lot better tonight on all his at bats.  I think he’s getting ready to tear it up for a while. 

Offline More of #34

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #384 on: May 21, 2018, 11:44:50 pm »
I'd like Harper to be another Cal Ripken - play for one team his whole career.  I guess I'm dreaming.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #385 on: May 22, 2018, 06:57:02 am »
If we're 25 games out, we're not trading him.  It just isn't going to happen.

Offline hotshot

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #386 on: May 22, 2018, 09:08:15 am »
If we're 25 games out, we're not trading him.  It just isn't going to happen.
Not even if we know we have no chance of signing him after the season? And how would we know that? If the Lerners give Rizzo a max number for Bryce that is clearly not going to be in the ballpark of offers he'll get.

Sorta like the O's and Machado. Even if they were in contention, they know their max on Manny is not going to be competitive in terms of what he'll command.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #387 on: May 22, 2018, 09:34:49 am »
Not even if we know we have no chance of signing him after the season? And how would we know that? If the Lerners give Rizzo a max number for Bryce that is clearly not going to be in the ballpark of offers he'll get.

Sorta like the O's and Machado. Even if they were in contention, they know their max on Manny is not going to be competitive in terms of what he'll command.

Trading him away would be a PR disaster. Him leaving via free agency is a different animal.  The large majority of the fan base is not like WNFF- looking to trade the franchise superstar  after a three game losing streak and a 10 game personal slump.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #388 on: May 22, 2018, 09:52:54 am »
Trading him away would be a PR disaster. Him leaving via free agency is a different animal.  The large majority of the fan base is not like WNFF- looking to trade the franchise superstar  after a three game losing streak and a 10 game personal slump.

On the other hand, a too-large proportion of the fan base thinks Jayson should have been offered around $5M a year in perpetuity, because he was a favorite player.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #389 on: May 22, 2018, 10:20:53 am »
Trading him away would be a PR disaster. Him leaving via free agency is a different animal.  The large majority of the fan base is not like WNFF- looking to trade the franchise superstar  after a three game losing streak and a 10 game personal slump.

i don't see how it's a major PR disaster if we're 10 games out on july 31st. it would take a good return to do it, but if i'm rizzo i have to explore the opportunity.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #390 on: May 22, 2018, 10:33:52 am »
i don't see how it's a major PR disaster if we're 10 games out on july 31st. it would take a good return to do it, but if i'm rizzo i have to explore the opportunity.

You would lose a lot of fans who only started following the Nationals when they became good. So a lot of fair weather fans.

But the Nats have been down this road before with Alfonso Soriano. If we are legit, 10 games out on July 31st, you gotta trade Harper if you get something more valuable than a draft pick.

But I think we'll be 2-4 games up by then.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #391 on: May 22, 2018, 10:44:03 am »
You would lose a lot of fans who only started following the Nationals when they became good. So a lot of fair weather fans.


there's a good chance that missing the playoffs will cost you those fans anyway

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #392 on: May 22, 2018, 10:46:37 am »
It would be a PR hit to trade Harper away, no question. But if they get to the playoffs again next year or the year after, they'll be back. Winning will cure any ill will eventually. But in the short term, trading Harper would be a blow to the casual fanbase, even if it is a sensible baseball decision. But I agree with Slate that we'll be in decent shape come the deadline.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #393 on: May 22, 2018, 11:37:27 am »
there's a good chance that missing the playoffs will cost you those fans anyway
I don't disagree. Certainly missing the playoffs and having Harper leave for another market at 300+ million.

Offline hotshot

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #394 on: May 22, 2018, 11:43:38 am »
i don't see how it's a major PR disaster if we're 10 games out on july 31st. it would take a good return to do it, but if i'm rizzo i have to explore the opportunity.

I agree. Think the fan base would be more upset with losing him in FA and ave zero to show for it. The Yanks showed how it should be done with the Aroldis Chapman mid-summer deal. Again, this pre-supposes that Bryce can't or won't be re-signed.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #395 on: May 22, 2018, 11:56:56 am »
You won’t have zero, the Nats will make him a Qualifying Offer, the draft pick they receive if he signs elsewhere is probably equivalent to what they will get for him if they trade him at the deadline.

Meanwhile to the average Nats fan, all they are going to say is “oh my gosh, they traded away Bryce!”  The optics are much different if he decides to walk in free agency.

Letting him walk for nothing isn’t something that can happen.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #396 on: May 22, 2018, 12:16:46 pm »
You won’t have zero, the Nats will make him a Qualifying Offer, the draft pick they receive if he signs elsewhere is probably equivalent to what they will get for him if they trade him at the deadline.

Meanwhile to the average Nats fan, all they are going to say is “oh my gosh, they traded away Bryce!”  The optics are much different if he decides to walk in free agency.

Letting him walk for nothing isn’t something that can happen.
The qualifying pick isn't much.  It's either after the 2nd round or after the 4th depending on whether we are over the luxury tax cap.

If they are completely out of the playoff race, they at least try to trade him unless they have some reason to believe there is still a chance to sign him.

Losing Harper is going to cost some ticket sales no matter how they lose him.   He brings in fans, especially families with kids.   


Offline imref

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #397 on: May 22, 2018, 12:18:22 pm »
You won’t have zero, the Nats will make him a Qualifying Offer, the draft pick they receive if he signs elsewhere is probably equivalent to what they will get for him if they trade him at the deadline.

Meanwhile to the average Nats fan, all they are going to say is “oh my gosh, they traded away Bryce!”  The optics are much different if he decides to walk in free agency.

Letting him walk for nothing isn’t something that can happen.

Well...it's complicated:
Under the new rules, since the Nats aren't a revenue sharing team, if we let Harper walk we get a pick in the "B" round of the compensatory draft, after the first round, and after the "A" round (which are teams who lost QO players but receive revenue sharing).

But wait, there's more - if the Nats go over the luxury tax threshold this year, the compensatory pick will be after the 4th round (we were over it last year). 

Whoever signs him would surrender their second highest draft pick, so that could be a second rounder.  If it is a team that's over the luxury tax cap, they would surrender their 2nd and 5th highest picks.

So it is entirely possible that if we let Harper walk, we get a 2nd round pick (and maybe a low one if it's Chicago or LAD that signs him), plus a pick after the 4th round (and maybe a 5th rounder).  Given that, it arguably makes more sense to try and deal him before the trade deadline if we are out of contention and not likely to resign him.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #398 on: May 22, 2018, 12:21:08 pm »
Well...it's complicated:
Under the new rules, since the Nats aren't a revenue sharing team, if we let Harper walk we get a pick in the "B" round of the compensatory draft, after the first round, and after the "A" round (which are teams who lost QO players but receive revenue sharing).

But wait, there's more - if the Nats go over the luxury tax threshold this year, the compensatory pick will be after the 4th round (we were over it last year). 

Whoever signs him would surrender their second highest draft pick, so that could be a second rounder.  If it is a team that's over the luxury tax cap, they would surrender their 2nd and 5th highest picks.

So it is entirely possible that if we let Harper walk, we get a 2nd round pick (and maybe a low one if it's Chicago or LAD that signs him), plus a pick after the 4th round (and maybe a 5th rounder).  Given that, it arguably makes more sense to try and deal him before the trade deadline if we are out of contention and not likely to resign him.


I don’t think we get the surrendered pick anymore- I thought that vanished under the current rules

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond
« Reply #399 on: May 22, 2018, 12:21:08 pm »
I thought you no longer got the other team's pick, and it was simply removed from the draft order?